Trading Card Database

[rhettyeakley]

I use it as an easy checklist tool.

I do find it annoying that the users there just take images from other websites and post them there without any reference to where the images came from. They have copied nearly every picture i have on my website of my Zeenut collection and it is now on tcdb. Pretty lame thing to do actually.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I use it as an easy checklist tool.

I do find it annoying that the users there just take images from other websites and post them there without any reference to where the images came from. They have copied nearly every picture i have on my website of my Zeenut collection and it is now on tcdb. Pretty lame thing to do actually.

You can step into them and claim copyright protections. As an owner of the pictures, you have that right.

[BobC]

We shall see how good/responsive they are. I just informed them through their "See any inaccuracies" function of some rather obvious errors in a couple of their set checklists, and an unreported error in one of the same sets that they do not list. I also inquired about another known set they do not list at all, and then mentioned an additional set that is uncatalogued, but known and documented through sales in a major auction house, and provided the links as proof.

I did not sign up as a member, and don't intend to. But if they do nothing and claim that my not formerly signing up/registering with them is a reason/excuse for them taking no action on very obvious errors, the problem and mistake clearly is on them! We'll see how good they are in monitoring and making any corrections and needed changes, and how quickly they act.

These are pre-war sets I'm talking about, not modern sets. I leave the modern stuff to sites like theirs, and have no opinion or comment on how good and accurate they are in their listings, descriptions, and checklists of such modern sets. Just surprised with all the errors I still come across on various sites regarding pre-war cards. You would think after all these years, and the decades of the SCD Catalogs, that there would be fewer, if any, errors still showing up in checklists for these old sets that other sites keep using/posting.

[Mike D.]

I've reported a number of errors I came across on the site, and in many cases, they were corrected within an hour.

[Mungo Hungo]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

I've reported a number of errors I came across on the site, and in many cases, they were corrected within an hour.

I've made many requests for corrections as well, and all have been made. The last one was on Thursday (a card number was incorrect), and the change was made in 22 minutes.

[Mungo Hungo]

Originally Posted by BobC

We shall see how good/responsive they are. I just informed them through their "See any inaccuracies" function of some rather obvious errors in a couple of their set checklists, and an unreported error in one of the same sets that they do not list. I also inquired about another known set they do not list at all, and then mentioned an additional set that is uncatalogued, but known and documented through sales in a major auction house, and provided the links as proof.

I did not sign up as a member, and don't intend to. But if they do nothing and claim that my not formerly signing up/registering with them is a reason/excuse for them taking no action on very obvious errors, the problem and mistake clearly is on them! We'll see how good they are in monitoring and making any corrections and needed changes, and how quickly they act.

These are pre-war sets I'm talking about, not modern sets. I leave the modern stuff to sites like theirs, and have no opinion or comment on how good and accurate they are in their listings, descriptions, and checklists of such modern sets. Just surprised with all the errors I still come across on various sites regarding pre-war cards. You would think after all these years, and the decades of the SCD Catalogs, that there would be fewer, if any, errors still showing up in checklists for these old sets that other sites keep using/posting.

Keep in mind that TCDB is not a business. There is literally no "they" or "them"; just the collective membership. Some have more rights to fix things than others, but they're all just collectors.

Anyone who wants to add a checklist can do so by requesting that right (you have to take a basic test on the board checklisting procedures) or messaging the complete checklist to the site. Providing links to evidence of the existence of a set probably will not be enough to have the set added. The site seems to run by the rule that everyone is expected to pitch in and provide all of the information available to them, rather than asking others to research things.

Again, the only way for that site to improve its pre-war checklists, scans, etc., is for pre-war collectors to join (it's free) and add/correct what they can. Every bit makes a difference.

[insidethewrapper]

Don't always take this site as gospel. Many variations that don't exist ( they are photoshopped cards). I corrected them on a few I saw. Again someone always tries to screw other collectors. I do use the site many times for Team Sets etc.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Mungo Hungo

Keep in mind that TCDB is not a business. There is literally no "they" or "them"; just the collective membership. Some have more rights to fix things than others, but they're all just collectors.

Anyone who wants to add a checklist can do so by requesting that right (you have to take a basic test on the board checklisting procedures) or messaging the complete checklist to the site. Providing links to evidence of the existence of a set probably will not be enough to have the set added. The site seems to run by the rule that everyone is expected to pitch in and provide all of the information available to them, rather than asking others to research things.

Again, the only way for that site to improve its pre-war checklists, scans, etc., is for pre-war collectors to join (it's free) and add/correct what they can. Every bit makes a difference.

We will see. I am not looking to join their site, just correct errors they have repeated from copying from others, and point out some things they are missing and may want to think about adding. I guess if they didn't want people to report errors to them and just make the changes and corrections themselves, then they wouldn't/shouldn't have specifically included a link/function that says to report inaccuracies to them, and then even include a menu of all kinds of changes, omissions, errors, and differences for someone with the site to look over. As I said, we shall see.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

I deal with higher end material full time. That site is a refreshing way for me to unwind. Who knew there could be some relaxation in sorting through all that junk wax I had been ignoring for over 30 years? I find things I need for various projects, simultaneously ridding myself of material I never thought there would be an eager outlet for.

If you do encounter problems in trading, such as an off-grade card, nearly every issue gets resolved quickly by the other party.

Another nice aspect of the site is that, by and large, the TCDB community is overwhelmingly friendly. You'll end up meeting a lot of people you'd never find through pre-war sites. Dabbling in nearly-worthless material is also great for reducing any smugness that might be lingering in the air! Nobody dares to affect a holier-than-thou attitude when swapping Willie Ainsleys. I'd almost wish someone would try to; it would be hilarious!

[ejharrington]

I've used the TCD website for years for checklist purposes. I don't see where there is a section for buying/selling. Can someone direct me to where that feature is?

[riggs336]

I use it almost daily as a reference. It's terrific for answering questions like " What cards does Wildfire Schulte have?".

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by ejharrington

I've used the TCD website for years for checklist purposes. I don't see where there is a section for buying/selling. Can someone direct me to where that feature is?

Same, although I think you have to create an account to see it. Will do so later.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by BobC

We shall see how good/responsive they are. I just informed them through their "See any inaccuracies" function of some rather obvious errors in a couple of their set checklists, and an unreported error in one of the same sets that they do not list. I also inquired about another known set they do not list at all, and then mentioned an additional set that is uncatalogued, but known and documented through sales in a major auction house, and provided the links as proof.

I did not sign up as a member, and don't intend to. But if they do nothing and claim that my not formerly signing up/registering with them is a reason/excuse for them taking no action on very obvious errors, the problem and mistake clearly is on them! We'll see how good they are in monitoring and making any corrections and needed changes, and how quickly they act.

These are pre-war sets I'm talking about, not modern sets. I leave the modern stuff to sites like theirs, and have no opinion or comment on how good and accurate they are in their listings, descriptions, and checklists of such modern sets. Just surprised with all the errors I still come across on various sites regarding pre-war cards. You would think after all these years, and the decades of the SCD Catalogs, that there would be fewer, if any, errors still showing up in checklists for these old sets that other sites keep using/posting.

Update to my earlier post. Haven't seen any changes made to the checklist/item errors I had reported to the site. I specifically used the link provided to report any inaccuracies, and followed the instructions as given, but haven't seen a thing done to correct anything. I thought I followed the rules in reporting the checklist errors I saw, and nothing on the site said or indicated there was anything further I needed or was supposed to do in regard to such error corrections, so I am at a loss as to the deficiencies I'm clearly seeing in this process.

Also, in regard to the twist this thread took in relation to copyright questions and issues that we assumed were well settled (or so we all thought), seems our current judicial branch is creating even more potential turmoil in our lives once again. Not necessarily exactly the same issue being discussed in this thread, but appears to bring up questions in regard to the Fair Use Doctrine when it comes to using/showing images of others.

[DaClyde]

Originally Posted by BobC

Update to my earlier post. Haven't seen any changes made to the checklist/item errors I had reported to the site. I specifically used the link provided to report any inaccuracies, and followed the instructions as given, but haven't seen a thing done to correct anything. I thought I followed the rules in reporting the checklist errors I saw, and nothing on the site said or indicated there was anything further I needed or was supposed to do in regard to such error corrections, so I am at a loss as to the deficiencies I'm clearly seeing in this process.

Can you name a specific correction you submitted? I waded through all 7-8 pages of outstanding issues, and didn't see anything for Pre-War stuff.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by DaClyde

Can you name a specific correction you submitted? I waded through all 7-8 pages of outstanding issues, and didn't see anything for Pre-War stuff.

Their S74-1 white, ad-backed silk checklist includes five players/silks that actually do not exist.

Peaches Graham - Cubs
Tommy Leach
Bugs Raymond
W.D. Scanlan (Scanlon)
Harry Steinfeldt - Rustlers

It took some years, but finally about 10-15 years ago I believe Bob Lemke and the SCD catalog staff finally started listing these five S74-1 players/images as "Existence now questioned." in their vintage catalogs. You can check with any serious S74 silk collectors, and they'll tell you the same thing, ad-backed white silks of these five players/teams never existed. And as additional proof, look at the images given for all the S74-1 silks on the TCDB checklist page. TCDB just so coincidentally has a posted image for every single white, ad-backed silk in the set, expect for these same five players/teams. And why not......because they don't exist. And for the record, the OBC site still erroneously includes these same five non-existent white, ad-backed S74-1 silks on their checklist as well.

Now jump over to TCDB's S74-2 colored silk checklist and you'll see it erroneously lists a colored silk for Happy Smith. No silks ever existed for Happy Smith in either the white or colored silk sets. Look at the photo image shown on the TCDB page, it clearly states the silk is of Tony Smith, not Happy Smith, and the image is the exact same one as on the S74-1 white, ad-backed silks that are listed as Tony Smith. Tony and Happy Smith are actually two different people, who both played for the Brooklyn Superbas in 1910. And for even more additional and irrefutable proof, look at the image used for Tony Smith's page in Baseball Reference, it is the exact same photo/image used Tony Smith's S74-1 and S74-2 silks.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...mithto03.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...mithha04.shtml

And also for the record, both the OBC site and the SCD catalog checklists incorrectly show/showed a Happy Smith silk existing as part of the S74-2 colored silk set, instead of correctly showing the player as Tony Smith. Given the ease with which one can check the Baseball Reference site to see these are two entirely different players, this error on the S74-2 checklist is even more egregious than the errors in the S74-1 checklist IMO.

And the fact that no one really seems to care or bother all that much with S74 silks just shows all the more in how these checklist errors have existed for so long. If we were talking different sets, like T206s or '33 Goudeys, any checklist errors of these types would have been corrected decades ago.

[DaClyde]

The Tony Smith was an easy fix in S74-2, so that has been corrected.

I will submit new inaccuracy reports for the S74-1 and reference your post. I think only the Admin can delete individual cards from an existing checklist, but this will get them back in the queue.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

You can step into them and claim copyright protections. As an owner of the pictures, you have that right.

Butch,

Is that actually true? For example, if you buy a card from an auction house that keeps an archive of their auctions, including images of items sold, up and online, how can you as the current owner of that card/item force them to take the image down, or otherwise ensure that no one else can/use copy the image?

Same thing I guess when someone posts an image here on the forum, how do you go about stopping someone else from copying and using it? Couldn't someone simply claim they acquired/copied the image prior to your taking ownership of the card/item? And of course, the legal cost of trying to go back at someone for such an infringement is not going to be nominal either, and would likely deter most people from ever really doing anything about someone else using their photos/images of cards/items they own.

I'm asking this as a serious question also, as I am not that knowledgeable when it comes to copyright laws and infringements in regard to photos and images of items owned by someone, especially when there can also be numerous photo/image copies all over the internet prior to someone's actually acquiring the original item/image itself.

[abothebear]

I joined a year ago and have traded nearly 100 times. It is fun if you both want to unload post-war stuff and also want to get some post war stuff. Pre-war isn’t nearly as represented, but most cards there are inexpensive cards, so that’s part of it. But if you do have pre-war you want to trade for something newer, people love being able to trade for the old stuff. People love trading over there in general, and there is always someone who wants even the junkiest junk wax cards. It is time consuming though, to learn to enter your lists, field or propose trade offers, counter, counter, check other options, accept, mail, etc. I’ve had to put trading on hold a few times just because I was spending too much time on it. I’ve also bought and sold over there and it is easy. I’d suggest reviewing feedback on anyone you are thinking about making a deal with. And sometimes it is good to read the message boards because you’ll find threads pointing out a rotten apple, and often you’ll find a commenter there with a signature listing other bad apples he’s encountered. Also, always ask for pictures of any cards you are dealing for. There are a surprising number of traders who don’t give a lock about condition. I’ve made a few trades where some cards from the group I received went right into the bin. It is weird throwing a Smoltz RC away, but even in great condition it isn’t worth anything, one with a water stain is straight garbage. Lots of great people over there though.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by BobC

Butch,

Is that actually true? For example, if you buy a card from an auction house that keeps an archive of their auctions, including images of items sold, up and online, how can you as the current owner of that card/item force them to take the image down, or otherwise ensure that no one else can/use copy the image?

Same thing I guess when someone posts an image here on the forum, how do you go about stopping someone else from copying and using it? Couldn't someone simply claim they acquired/copied the image prior to your taking ownership of the card/item? And of course, the legal cost of trying to go back at someone for such an infringement is not going to be nominal either, and would likely deter most people from ever really doing anything about someone else using their photos/images of cards/items they own.

I'm asking this as a serious question also, as I am not that knowledgeable when it comes to copyright laws and infringements in regard to photos and images of items owned by someone, especially when there can also be numerous photo/image copies all over the internet prior to someone's actually acquiring the original item/image itself.

Bob,

This is a picture that you take and then post to your own web site. You own the rights to that picture that you take and publish. If someone (auction house) takes a picture of your card, they own the rights to that picture that they publish. Now with the metadata that is captured within a picture, it is actually easier to trace its origin than it has been in years past.

Pictures that you take and upload to sites like this one tend to become property of Leon. You/we may have agreed to release rights to a picture once it is uploaded to this site. But as a web site owner, if you take a picture and upload it to your website the rights to that photo belong to you.

This is how I understood it to be when I was getting school learned years ago.

https://www.pixsy.com/academy/image-...righted%20work.

Butch

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by BobC

Butch,

Is that actually true? For example, if you buy a card from an auction house that keeps an archive of their auctions, including images of items sold, up and online, how can you as the current owner of that card/item force them to take the image down, or otherwise ensure that no one else can/use copy the image?

Same thing I guess when someone posts an image here on the forum, how do you go about stopping someone else from copying and using it? Couldn't someone simply claim they acquired/copied the image prior to your taking ownership of the card/item? And of course, the legal cost of trying to go back at someone for such an infringement is not going to be nominal either, and would likely deter most people from ever really doing anything about someone else using their photos/images of cards/items they own.

I'm asking this as a serious question also, as I am not that knowledgeable when it comes to copyright laws and infringements in regard to photos and images of items owned by someone, especially when there can also be numerous photo/image copies all over the internet prior to someone's actually acquiring the original item/image itself.

You own the item not previously made images.

[G1911]

TCDB has a BST forum just like Net54, which is what people are talking about. Link is: https://www.tcdb.com/Forum.cfm/Page/...ll-Trade-Forum

Not sure if you need to be a member to see it, that might be the problem.

[Mungo Hungo]

If you click on a specific card, you should see a link for “Mentions,” which lists members who have the card, are looking for the card and have the card for trade (or sale). You can then generate a list of the cards on your own to-trade list that are on the want lists of members who have the card you’re looking for. You can then propose a trade by sending a transaction proposal to the other member. Or offer to purchase.

[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by Mungo Hungo

If you click on a specific card, you should see a link for “Mentions,” which lists members who have the card, are looking for the card and have the card for trade (or sale). You can then generate a list of the cards on your own to-trade list that are on the want lists of members who have the card you’re looking for. You can then propose a trade by sending a transaction proposal to the other member. Or offer to purchase.

Thanks for the information. Do you know how I would add a card to my want list?

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

You own the item not previously made images.

Thanks Scott, I probably was not all that clear about that.

Regards,

Butch

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

You own the item not previously made images.

That's what I thought. Can't imagine the nightmare that would ensue if someone acquiring an original item could go back and ban others from using images of it online and elsewhere.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by BobC

Butch,

Is that actually true? For example, if you buy a card from an auction house that keeps an archive of their auctions, including images of items sold, up and online, how can you as the current owner of that card/item force them to take the image down, or otherwise ensure that no one else can/use copy the image?

Same thing I guess when someone posts an image here on the forum, how do you go about stopping someone else from copying and using it? Couldn't someone simply claim they acquired/copied the image prior to your taking ownership of the card/item? And of course, the legal cost of trying to go back at someone for such an infringement is not going to be nominal either, and would likely deter most people from ever really doing anything about someone else using their photos/images of cards/items they own.

I'm asking this as a serious question also, as I am not that knowledgeable when it comes to copyright laws and infringements in regard to photos and images of items owned by someone, especially when there can also be numerous photo/image copies all over the internet prior to someone's actually acquiring the original item/image itself.

My laymans understanding is that you couldn't prevent someone from copying and using an auction house photo of something you now own. But the auction house could.

Likewise, I have created very nearly all the scans I post here. So I have some copyright on those images. For stuff that has a current rights holder it's possible that my scans of say a Topps card infringe their copyright. But I'm probably ok under fair use. That being said, if Topps complained I'd take the scans down until we sorted things out. It's the simplest and cheapest.

The question though is that while I created them I freely shared them on a free message board. And I have no illusion that scans of my cards have any legitimate commercial value. So if someone uses them so much the better.
(I ran across a prettied up version of a scan I did well over a decade ago of a bicycle companys internal message to dealers about a new serial number system. Commented that it was cool seeing my scan still circulating. The guy who had it seemed at first confused, then a bit hesitant until I explained that yes, I made the original scan and still owned the original document, and that I had absolutely no problem with it being distributed as widely as possible. )

Then there's issues of rights to publicise an image, especially in NY... One of the reasons I believe that no high res scans are available of the Burdick collection anymore. Or the baseball portion at any rate. I used to be able to get some great T206 images for commons, but not HOFers. Now it's low res for everything.

[steve B]

I should be more clear, Copyright technically exists the moment you create something that can be copywritten. But there are very few protections.

To get the protections I'd have to register the copyright with the government.

[DaClyde]

As a frequent contributor there, TCDB is easily the top site for everything non-mainstream. Beckett long ago abandoned cataloging oddball, minor league or non-American sets. TCDB has hundreds, if not thousands, of sets catalogued that Beckett has either ignored, or only has extremely incomplete listings.

Crowdsourcing is not a strike against the site, it is the site's strength, and is the main way to ensure the listings are accurate. Beckett still includes errors from 20-30 years ago in their listings, with little hope of correction (looking at you
1990 Classic Blue #133A Hensley Meulens ERR that doesn't exist, or any of their garbage Japanese set listings). I suspect some of those were added as copy protection, but now that no one needs to copy their database anymore, they are just a data quality issue.

TCDB may not be perfect, but no site is. It is likely the most comprehensive, English-language resource on the web, right now. I joined explicitly to have a place where I could catalogue my player collections, right down to the most obscure oddball.

One of the problems with for-profit sites, is that once the buyouts begin, the product immediately ceases to be the driver, and profit is the only consideration, often driving a site or company right into the ground. As long as those equity bros get their slice, the customers and the product don't matter.

There are likely as many people who want Beckett to improve and succeed as there are who want the same for TCDB. Unfortunately they have no avenue to help Beckett, aside from paying for their products. Anyone can help improve TCDB. Crowdsourcing is also a big reason COMC was able to get away from Beckett's data and win that lawsuit. I feed bad for the folks who work at Beckett, trying their best, and only being allowed to contribute the bare minimum by management that understands only profits.

Hopefully once TCDB moves to a new hosting provider, the site will stabilize again.