Goudey 1933 PSA 9s--Many ungraded out there?

[GregMitch34]

Goudey 1933 PSA 8s seem to be rising nicely in value lately. I'm not a collector but I have nabbed a couple in recent months. For whatever reason, there are very, very few mint 9s on the PSA pop report, but I wonder if anyone has a guess on whether there may be plenty out there that have not been graded or actually quite scarce--and the reason for that if true? I guess this would help anyone buying or selling 8s in the near future....thanks.

[philliesphan]

As a general premise, I'd assert that for most pre-war baseball cards (particularly ones with corners -- discs, rounded game cards, etc. don't count)
there are likely very few raw, unaltered examples out there that would grade at MINT 9 through either PSA or SGC. Many of us may know a handful of collections that may have some examples of virgin, high grade cards. But 80+ years later, with centering, corner touches, fading, etc. -- it is hard to imagine (m)any cards in the unaltered state existing in MINT condition.

Every now and then you hear about finds which are the anomalies that drive this hobby -- the 1914 CJ set, the Black Swamp find, etc. -- but in most of those cases, you have cards that were often untouched or handled for decades.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

Goudey 1933 PSA 8s seem to be rising nicely in value lately. I'm not a collector but I have nabbed a couple in recent months. For whatever reason, there are very, very few mint 9s on the PSA pop report, but I wonder if anyone has a guess on whether there may be plenty out there that have not been graded or actually quite scarce--and the reason for that if true? I guess this would help anyone buying or selling 8s in the near future....thanks.

There are plenty more residing in PSA 5-6 holders, waiting to be trimmed. The 1933 Goudey population is filled with altered cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

There are plenty more residing in PSA 5-6 holders, waiting to be trimmed. The 1933 Goudey population is filled with altered cards.

Who would do such a thing? Nobody you know, I hope.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Who would do such a thing? Nobody you know, I hope.

Do such a thing or buy such a thing? Maybe some people you know.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Moi? I only know the hobby's great guys.

[calvindog]

Well, you know me and it's true, I don't collect high grade 33 Goudeys anymore.

[ls7plus]

I'm with Jeff on this one. IMHO, the population of true "8's" and "9's" is going to be very, very small, with perhaps some exceptions, such as 1915 Cracker Jack (available from the factory without first having been packaged in the product), but it will still appear to grow as the card alteration artists' methods continue to evolve. Their NMT-MT and better creations have and will continue to escape attention by the graders in a significant number of cases. I like to stick with significant cards (HOF'ers, and best of all, their rookie cards, when possible) that are rare in any grade. To me, eye appeal triumphs over technical grade insofar as really rare cards are concerned. My two cents!

Highest regards,

Larry

[GregMitch34]

I'm wondering how those who claim widespread altering actually know this based on evidence not suspicion?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

I'm wondering how those who claim widespread altering actually know this based on evidence not suspicion?

Because I've spoken to people who alter 1933 Goudeys.

[steve B]

With anything worth real money altering happens. I'm not sure about the widespread part, but with under 300 9s between PSA and SGC even 4 or 5 might be enough to call it widespread.

Yet another reason to reverse the tiers for grading. Rush the 88 Donruss cards, spend a bit more time on the expensive stuff so you've got time to really take a good look.

A really great faker will still get stuff past them, but spending more than a few seconds before they rush to slab it and get it out the door in a certain number of days would let them catch more.

Steve B

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Because I've spoken to people who alter 1933 Goudeys.

[Peter_Spaeth]

But Jeff, this is from our very own forum.

http://net54baseball.com/forum/content/goudey.html

For the most part, Goudey cards (including the 1933 Sport Kings) were all cut the same way between 1933 and 1938, and therefore trimming detection is fairly straightforward.

[Rollingstone206]

...

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

I'm wondering how those who claim widespread altering actually know this based on evidence not suspicion?

I happen to know that a former dealer in my area who habitually engaged in the process managed to have a 1941 Play Ball Williams graded by PSA as NMT 7, and a '55 Topps Jackie Robinson graded PSA 8. They also dealt in Goudeys, and it would be awfully naive to think the latter were not included in their wares.

Highest regards,

Larry

[steve B]

Not unobtainable at all considering the amount of money involved. For a tiny cut of what a 9 would sell for you can get a decent machine operator to do the cutting. I think it might still be possible to tell, but would take more than a quick inspection.

Steve B

Originally Posted by Rollingstone206

Guillotine style paper cutting machines are not unobtainable to card doctors are they?