EBay rules

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Posted By: Marc

Who else is completely sick of EBay's new 'graded only' rules for certain cards? I was bidding on a card from EBay's new top 10 list of cards that are now required to be graded before being sold, and it was removed after the first 3 days. As a COLLECTOR, and not a business man trying to ruin the hobby, I don't like graded cards and prefer raw cards. However, with the type of cards I collect on that list, it makes it almost impossible now for me to find what I need. I don't want graded cards, and personally I feel graded cards only ruin the hobby by escalating prices 3 times their value. EBay needs to mind their own business and let things be. That way everyone can enjoy the hobby how they want, whether graded or ungraded.

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Posted By: Matt

"I feel graded cards only ruin the hobby by escalating prices 3 times their value."
Unless you are referring to high grade examples, I'm not sure what this statement means.

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Posted By: Steve

I bet the 'raw' card dealers want the same 3x the value
for the raw examples they sell.


Steve

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Posted By: Adam

I do not mind it at all. It's nice to know the card you will be getting is real, especially when buying off eBay. And if someone does not like graded cards, that is not a problem either. With one swift hit of a hammer, you instantly can have a raw card after buying it as graded. I don't see the downside.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Can't have it both ways: blasting ebay for allowing fraud to occur on its site and then blasting it for trying to protect people from fraud.

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Posted By: Marc

It becomes a problem whenever grading a card escalates the value 3-4 times the worth. I myself do not think that is right. So, why would I pay 3-4 times the value so I can crack the case? If a card is graded a 10, it should not be worth 3-4 times what a raw 10 is worth. That is where the hobby is getting messed up.

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Posted By: Bruce Dorskind

As you may or may not be aware, there are several pending major legal
actions in which E Bay is accused of knowingly allowing sellers to auction
reproductions and/or counterfeit items. Whilst there are trademark infringement
issues in some of these cases, it is clear E Bay wants to do all it can to avoid
small law suits.

It is clear the EBay wants to protect its customers from items that are
misrepresented. The company also wants to protect itself.

Many ungraded cards are inappropriately described. It is very difficult for
a potential buyer to assess condition from an e Bay scan.

Furthermore, the hobby is all about graded cards. If one looks at the top
10 auction houses (average lot value 500- 5500) more than 90%
of the cards are graded.

Without graded cards, there is no hobby and certainly without an independent
advisory/grading service, cards would loose 50-75% of their value.

E Bay, in fact has no choice in the matter.

If one wants to buy ungraded cards call the dealers that sell them or
go to a card show. But don't be surprised to see your cards have little
or no value when it is time to sell them.


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: barrysloate

Bruce- is it really true that ebay allows some sellers to hawk counterfeit items, and they don't care?

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Posted By: Shawn Chambers

Can someone point me in the general direction of the new Ebay Top 10 list of cards that must be graded? I can assume certain cards: T206 Wagner, 52 Mantle etc, but can't find the link. Also does this do anything to stop the lame "selling as a reprint even though it don't say reprint on it" sellers.

Shawn

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Posted By: Marc S.

of too many "major" sports cards that sell at 67% discount in a raw form, as opposed to graded. Certainly not in the pre-war world, especially if you are not looking for ultra-high grade examples.

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Posted By: george "bulldog" adams

son you got 2 choices in this ever-changing marketplace you can learn to adapt or you can go play with your barbie dolls. bulldog

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Posted By: Craig W

Here's the list of cards that must be graded to sell on eBay. It was posted by Jamie in the Cy Young thread:

1. 1979-1980 Wayne Gretzky Rookie Card (O-Pee-Chee and Topps #18)
2. 1966-1967 Bobby Orr Rookie Card (Topps #35)
3. 1986-1987 Michael Jordan Rookie Card (Fleer #57)
4. 1933 Babe Ruth (Goudey - all four)
5. 1951 Mickey Mantle (Bowman #253)
6. 1985-1986 Mario Lemieux Rookie Card (O-Pee-Chee and Topps #9)
7. 1952 Mickey Mantle (Topps #311)
8. 1909 Honus Wagner (T206)
9. 1933 Lou Gehrig (Goudey)
10. 1909 Ty Cobb (T206)
11. 1909 Cy Young (T206)
12. 1909 Eddie Plank (T206)
13. 1988 Maxx Dale Earnhardt

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Posted By: Bob

11. 1909 Cy Young (T206)

What is the rationale for the Young card and not Matty, the O'Hara and Demmitt variations, or any T205s or caramel cards? I know you have to draw the line somewhere but it seems like an awfully random choice.

13. 1988 Maxx Dale Earnhardt

Huh? I wouldn't trade a P-F T204 Ramly for this card in NRMT. Are there that many NASCAR tireheads in this world who actually pay good money for this card? (And yes I live in the South).

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Posted By: barrysloate

Ebay's rule of what's allowed and what's not is arbitrary because they do not know very much at all about vintage cards. They could ask an expert to help them with the list, but apparently they haven't.

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Posted By: William Brumbach

From this guy's webpage:
http://homepage.mac.com/chrisolds/PORT/co111.html

1. Dale Earnhardt 1988 Maxx No. 99, $120. This card wasn't included in the original 1988 Maxx set, the landmark first widely produced NASCAR release, because of contract squabbles. Only a few were released in 1988, but Maxx released 999 of them as a serial-numbered (and much more expensive) insert in 1994. In 1996, before the company went out of business, it was planning to release autographed versions of the card, but that didn't happen and the remaining stock of original cards were let out into the market. Confused? I am, and now you know why most fans collect diecasts.

I guess if you collect Nascar cards it's a really big deal.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Arbitrariness isn't always bad. The government deciding whether drivers should drive on the right versus the left side of the road involved arbitrariness choice. Whichever side they picked was a good one, public safety wise. Notice that in Britain, they dive on the left.

All practical action involves arbitrary decisions. This can help explain why some perfectionists are unable to finish projects. Finishing a project requires arbitrary choices, and the perfectionist sees an arbitrary choice ('Just pick one or the other and stick with it') as imperfection. Of course, arbitrariness is imperfect, but so is an unfinished project. In other words, the expectation of perfection is an imperfection.

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Posted By: george "bulldog" adams

would disagree about the list being arbitrary i think it was compiled based on complaints filed. bulldog

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Arbitrary or not, my vote would be that all "paper stock cutouts with partial article on back" must be graded by PSA, SGC, GAI or Beckett before they can be offered on eBay.

I also vote that there can be no arbitrary posts without a JSA COA. Non-arbitrary posts must come with a PSA/DNA LOA or a letter from your mom.

Reminds me of the Woody Allen movie 'Bananas' where the power went to the mind of a new Latin American revolutionary dictator. The leader decreed that all citizens were required to change their underwear twice a day, and, so the State could verify, all citizens were required to wear their underwear on the outside.

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Posted By: Andrew Saboley

"Without graded cards, there is no hobby"

Sure there is. You just don't realize it. Maybe without graded cards there isn't any hobby for you?

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Posted By: Marc

Graded cards is just an easy way for people to capitalize profits from the hobby. Sure, it was setup to stop fraud, but it has developed into a way for people to make alot of money.

Most 'true' collectors wouldn't think there isn't a hobby anymore without graded cards. People who think that way probably mean, there is no money in collecting without graded cards. That is the difference between a collector and a businessman.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

When I used to buy, collect and trade raw cards, I found out that about half of collectors and dealers were bad graders-- often grading to their financial advantage. Especially through the mail and with strangers, buying and trading raw cards has a tangible downside. I think many hobbyists take the 1-10 grades way too seriously, but can also see why a collector would prefer a card to be graded when purchasing online.