Just spoke with Derek Grady-SGC

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Posted By: leon

Hey folks,
Just had a very pleasant 20 minute phone call with Derek Grady (Sr. Vp. Grader) of SGC. He said that he feels the Jurgenson is off 1/2 to 1 grade. He is going to call the seller (a bulk customer) and offer him some mitigation for the card. He feels it should be an 88 or 92 depending on some other factors....but most likely an 88 or 8......He said they use very precise instruments for measuring and this card is actually not as bad as it looks if you measure it. While I thought it looked 90-10 t-b, to my untrained eye, he said it was more likely about 67-33....still not up to a 96 by any means, he readily admits. He also asked for folks to let them know about problems like this and they will try to make them right. He seemed extremely concerned and interested about their reputation. NOW FOR THE BIG QUESTION. He said that if I could make a business case for "authentication" services without a grade that they would consider it (not for sure do it but at least consider it)....He seemed more apt to do it this time than when I mentioned it a few times before...so here is the question. Are there folks that would send in more cards if they were only to get an "authentic" only instead of a grade? Obviously if the answer is "yes", quite a few, then that would weigh in favor of the new process. I suggested that they might just make the new grading for pre-80 cards so it would not allow folks to send in the new shiny refractor crap.....although revenue is revenue so maybe anything should be able to be authenticated only? thoughts?.....and as always .....best regards

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Posted By: Mike Williams

I may be missing something here but if SGC were to "authenticate" a card only....not assign it a grade, wouldn't this save them a step or two. Time is money right? Business case solved! Not to mention, collectors/dealers that have a bitter taste for "grading" companies may just opt for peace of mind "authentication". More justification to offer this service! This is a PERFECT opportunity for SGC ......I have personally asked Merkle this question (numerous times) a few years ago and got no response. The question I have for SGC (my favorite grading company by the way)....why wouldn't you do it?

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Posted By: leon

Derek will be reading this thread and has promised they will give the process serious thought if enough interest is generated....I forget what their business case was for NOT doing it but they did have one.....regards

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

Just got finished doing a 16 page business case here at the old job.........they could certainly use it as a competitive advantage since NONE of the other grading services offers this service.

I would send more in because I like the holder and the color contrast of the black inserts. With the influx of trimmed cards on the market--especially after the last Lipset auction of the Don McPherson caramels, which found their way back onto ebay, I think authentication services without grading would be very beneficial to the untrained person buying cards.

Obviously for high dollar tickets like the T206 Wagners, PSA has made exceptions to their policy and graded a couple of them--the one 707 had and another. They also graded that T206 Cobb back as some variant also.

The 'authentic' line could be priced in the $5.00 to $7.00 which should allow for quite a bit of profit given the cost of the holders. The internal benefits would be as someone earlier in the thread said and allow for quicker grading since a grade isn't needed to be assigned. Might not get completely away from more than one grader reviewing them as authenticity can often be more difficult to determine than actual grade.

The differentiation from the competitors should be reason enough. If you are the 'one stop shop' people will more often come to your site where they can get a larger group of services offered.

A person could submit cards with the stipulation if the card has been altered in any way that it still be holdered as authentic. It could even be taken a step farther to include what the 'supposed' alteration is such as the rebacking added to my Old Judge Cap Anson that you guys refused to grade (okay, I just tried to sneak it by).

You might need some different term than 'authentic' with the whole SCD grading thing though although by the time that you launch the product, that might be a moot point.

p.s. I agree with Mike W completely that the main business case should be new revenue generation. Main goal of any business........

p.p.s. Derek......please get my (48) 19th century cards that you received today graded as soon as possible!

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Posted By: Marc S.

I can probably think of a dozen cards or so that I would want to get authenticated....However, it would most likely be a one-time thing with me, and not an on-going process...

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Posted By: jay behrens

Although I might never use a service like this, it is definately an option I would like to have available.

Jay

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Posted By: MW

edited

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Posted By: Jay B

Anyone else having a problem to get the pics for nforj to load? I forget what pic host it is, but Scott Brockleman us it, and about half his pictures never show up when I look at his auctions

Jay

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Posted By: John

I have a few old judge cards that i know are trimmed and bought them knowing that,that i would like to get put in a holder......I know the cards are authentic but i like the look of the holders and i'd be more likely to send in my other old judges at the same time to get graded....John

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Posted By: runscott

let me know how many sgc holders you need - I cracked 'em cleanly.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

but I only have 1 card the authenticity of which I question. I have a dozen which I'd like to know if they're trimmed or not. Maybe 20...Most of them are T206s. Some 19th century, too.

Julie

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Posted By: BcD

look at some of these ! it's ridiculous.....and now will probably get worse with PSA !

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Posted By: David

which card of yours is of questionable authenticity?

David

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Posted By: Charlie

If you sent your cards to PSA you got an 8 no matter if they were 9's or 10's...and you had to pay a 99.00 fee to join to get those 8's. With SGC you get a fair deal....PERIOD!!!! No extra fees!!! SGC is the best grader... No Doubt!!! Nicest holder too!!! No BS They just are...

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Posted By: MW

...edited

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Posted By: HalleyGator

PLEASE CLARIFY ....

Would an "authentic" but yet TRIMMED card get slabbed under this new process???

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Posted By: leon

MW- went back and looked a little closer and here are my thoughts on the cards you listed....the Mantle- corners too soft for an 8....the '40 Jackson- corners too soft.....the other 2 pic's won't come up......ok I was sleepy yesterday and didn't look hard enough....I am not sure about the centering problems you listed since the pic's didn't happen but my thinking is that a 9 should be at least 60-40 all the way around......again, just my thoughts......Halley- As far as trimmed cards being slabbed....not sure...I think that would be open for debate...my first thought is NO....but my second thought could be YES....actually though I think I am more concerned with a card being trimmed than actually fake....not to say I have not bought 2 fake cards but they are quite readily identified and dealt with....trimming, altering, touching up, and adding paper are different stories......I think I would vote that if the card were doctored in any way I would not slab it....Say I have a card that is a high dollar card but low grade and I just want to know if it has been doctored. I know it is going to get a 10-20 so I don't care about the grade. If it came back as authentic I could know that it most likely was not altered. I know you love PSA but I am seeing more problems with them all of the time.....and I have nothing to gain or lose by saying that.....best regards again

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Posted By: Tom

if you don't slab cards that have been trimmed, rebacked, missing parts, re-colored or other things as 'authentic' then what would we slab as such? I think that it would be good to slab them with the reason for the 'authentic' grade listed. They're entombed (for a while.....till Scott or Tbob cracks them) with what the reason that there was no assigned grade. Still in a nice holder with black insert and slabbed as 'authentic' while rebacked (my OJ Anson). Now.....debate as to if 'authentic' could be given for anything that has something added to it--such as color or paper--backing or for rebuilding corners might be valid (the debate that is). Maybe anything rebacked or colored or with paper added couldn't get the 'authentic' designation but I would DEFINITELY want trimmed cards to be slabbed as such. Just comments from the peanut gallery...........

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Posted By: runscott

I would like to see an "authentic" grade for anything that is a real card, with qualifiers for anything that's been done to it, and NO NUMERIC GRADE. The understanding for cards graded as "authentic" with tampering qualifiers could be that there may be additional tampering that hasn't been picked up by the "authenticator" - for instance, tack holes that have been repaired nicely may not always be noticed, although I understand a black light can catch those.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

i have had quite a few correspondences lately with different people at SGC and brought up the question about authenticating. I think with some more encouragement that they might do it soon.

Everyone I talk to ( about 5 different people) were pleasant and willing to help in all my questions.

Lee

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Posted By: leon

Since I am one of the novices on the board (although an "avid" novice) I don't see the big glaring problems with the cards. I believe I could tell more by seeing them in person though. The corners of a few don't look like "8"'s but that is about it....

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Posted By: David

I think that the idea authenticating 'ungradable' cards is a good idea, under the assumption that they do an accurate job. 'Beleived to be Authentic-- extensive restoration' or 'Beleived to be Authentic-- trimmed' sound like resonable descriptions.

As this service would most often be used on unusual and even unique cards, I would expect, and hope, that it wouldn't be bargain bacement priced. I would hope someone examining your Ty Cobb back or Fans Cigarettes Bigbee of Rembrant isn't being paid less than a McDonald's worker.

Many collectors will find that this service does not fill in all gaps. There will be legitimate but un-'authenticable' cards. For example, the dates of a unique card may be unknown. Or the examiner may have strong reason to beleive the previously unknown card to be vintage but not with the certainty to declare and 'authentic.'

I personally don't like organization or person who calls themselves 'Authenticators.' They are examiners or judgers, who are giving their best opinions on what an item is. If you ask a top autograph expert, like Mike Gutierrez or Jimmy Spence, they will tell you that the aren't really authenticating those vintage autographs. They will say that they are giving their educated opinion. And that's that's the way it should be.

While many to most cards and related can resonably be labelled authentic, the term 'authenticator' in a company's name is a marketing ploy, or at least a lazy term that doesn't describe what they really should be doing when it involves esoteric material.

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Posted By: leon

I agree with you but they do offer a "money" related guarantee with their expert opinion....so while it is an opinion it is an opinion with a foundation of recourse.......not sure if the autograph guys do that.....regards

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Posted By: David

Leon, I was not singling out SGC (firstly, they're not the company with 'authentic' in their name), and agree that a money back guarantee is worthwhile. But 'authentic' is an absolute term--, so saying "This is authentic or your money back" makes no sense to me. A resonable substitute, in particular when applied to esoteric material, might say, "Beleived to be authentic" or "In our opinion, this card is authentic, and this is why ....."

It is my firm beleif that any company that entombs esoteric material and stamps 'Authentic' across the holder has serious and elemental problems with their services. Unless he was a witness to the production of the matierial, no legitimate examiner would use such absolute wording.