Turkey Red survey?

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Posted By: Mark

In a previous thread, the frequency of the various backs on Turkey Red cards was briefly discussed. This made me a bit more curious, and I decided to do some research.

According to their own population report, PSA has graded a total of 1,858 Turkey Reds. Of this number, 1,020 were from the first series, and 838 were from the second series. Thus, 55% were from the first series, and 45% were from the second series.

Of the 838 cards in the second series, 344 had Turkey Red ad backs. This amounts to 41% of the second series cards, and 18.5% of all cards graded. Basically, almost one in every five T3 cards has a Turkey Red ad back.

Unfortunately, PSA does not track the number of the first series cards that have the "no address" back. In order to get a better idea, a survey would need to be done.

As noted before in the earlier thread, many of the cards in the second series are very difficult, if not impossible, to find with a Turkey Red back. For example, of the 19 PSA graded cards of #84 Browne, not a single one had a Turkey Red back. Of the 15 PSA graded cards of #85 Burns, not a single one had a Turkey Red back. The same is true of #79 Bell (13 cards), #114 Rhoades (11 cards), and #81 Bescher (9 cards). Thus far, none of these second series cards has been graded with a Turkey Red ad back. Can anyone out there confirm they exist?

There is a second group of cards that are almost as difficult as the five above. These include Bender (1 of 21), Schlei and Sullivan (each 1 of 18), Lobert (2 of 15), Schulte (2 of 14), Lennox (2 of 13), and Doolan (3 of 18).

Conversely, though to a lesser extreme, there are second series cards that are difficult to find with checklist backs, and easy to find with Turkey Red ad backs. These include Johnson (21 of 26 are Turkey Red ad backs), Lord, Bransfield, and Wilson. And there are others.

What is the reason for this? Good question. Perhaps someone out there can take the card numbers and the population reports and figure out a pattern that will give us information about the printing process.

Although PSA is a great source of information, it is not without its faults. For example, they claim to have graded a card of #28 Overall with a Turkey red ad back. If this is true, and someone out there has it, I would be willing to pay large amounts of money for it! Please contact me! I don't expect to find one. There is other inaccurate information as well.

Noting that the recent T206 surveys have yielding interesting new information on that set, I would like to see collectors of T3 conduct a survey as well. Is anyone out there interested and willing to participate?

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Posted By: jay wolt

Mark - I have over 90% of the 126 card T3/T9 set PSA graded.
Out of the high #'s I have 1 in 3 are ad backs.
And I have just a couple of the tougher checklist backs w/o
the ordering info....jay

edited to add the tougher back scan...

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Posted By: Craig D

Mark,
I do have a Bescher w/Turkey Red back. I do agree with your analysis that certain second series cards are hard to find with the ad-back, however, I'm confident that a Turkey Red back is available for each second series card except Rhoades, Doolan (those noted in the PSA pop report are probably for Dool"in"), Paskert w/Cin and Tenney-NY. Conversely, I doubt we will see checklist backs for Dool"in", Paskert w/Cin & Phil and Tenney w/NY & Bos.

I currently have 27 different 1st series cards with the "no-ad" back. I expect each first series card will carry all three possible backs, with the lone exception being McIntyre w/Brooklyn - which will probably only be found with the 1-75 checklist back.

Hope that helps.

Happy Collecting!

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Posted By: barrysloate

In my upcoming auction I have a Johnson with a checklist back. But as you previously mentioned, it's unlikely to garner any premium.

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Posted By: Mark

Anyone out there have Browne, Burns, Bell or Rhoades with a Turkey Red ad back?