Rooky13

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

In the "Mike Plemmons" thread the other day I mentioned that I'd been taken for a large sum of money by a board member. At the urging of numerous board members, I will share more about the situation. I first posted about this back in May. Here is a link to that original thread:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=153652&messageid=1116558519&lp=1116616839

Later tonight I will post the full story, but for now I thought it would be fair to offer all those involved a chance to come here in advance and explain themselves and their side of the story from their perspective.

The name of the collector is Sergio Delgado. Here is a link to an article about him that was in PSA's SMR magazine last month: http://www.psacard.com/smrweb/backissues/smr0805/delgado.chtml

Many of us know him as "Rooky13" or through Jorge Marce who does all of the buying for him. Jorge was at the National and attended the dinner at Shoeless Joe's. If Jorge or Sergio doesn't post in the next few hours it may be that they would rather remain silent. It also may be that they are evacuating their homes due to the latest hurricane, so we shouldn't assume they are ignoring this thread as they have more important issues to deal with at the moment. That being said, I'll post my side of the story later this evening.

-Ryan Christoff

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

Tell PSA to get a new proofreader.......pharaoh's misspelled.......

Interesting story.....can't WAIT for, as Paul Harvey says, 'the REST of the story.......

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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

Ryan, I hope everything works out for you on this....Man that had to make you sick to read that PSA story. Probably even sicker if the Gibson card pictured is yours.

Dan

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

"Civil Conversion" is the legal term for what has taken place.

The cards were not "stolen" since you left them with him, but your contract proves that you still own them until he pays the price.

I don't think you would have any problem at all finding an attorney in Miami who would handle a simple "civil conversion" lawsuit.

Unfortunately, unless you mentioned legal fees in your contract (which is obviously unlikely)... you will end up having to pay your own attorney's fees.

Then again, he will incur fees as well.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I read the article in the SMR and it seems a little bizarre to me that a man that successful would resort to ripping off a collector for what is to him a modest sum of money. Is there more to this story than meets the eye?

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

the loser paid the fees...

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Posted By: andy becker

.....if we lived in england.
in the good ol' u.s. of a. it's every man (or woman) for themselves
good luck ryan!

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

"Loser Pays" really doesn't work well in our system.

What if I sue you and say that you owe me $100,000... but the jury decides in the end that I was only entitled to $1?

Did I really "win"?

Should I get ALL of my attorney's fees paid for a $1 lawsuit??

NO.

BUT... if we had "loser pays"... then there would be even MORE lawsuits because lawyers would file suit in even the smallest cases and bill a ton of hours just to try and get the other side to pay.

With contingency fees... no lawyer worth his salt is going to file suit on a $1 case... because his fee would be $0.33 in the end.

In fact...

there are certain areas of our law where even a $1 verdict DOES entitle someone to receive their attorney's fees (I believe Discrimination Cases are one of these)...

and those areas see a lot of frivilous cases for that very reason.

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Posted By: BlackSoxFan

Couldn't agree with you more Hal....

perspective really does make a difference, don'tcha think people?

Regards,
Black Sox Fan

- - - - - - - - -

I'm Smart Enough To Know, There Are A Lot Of People Who Know More Than I Know

BlackSoxFan.com
email me

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

but some states do award attorney's fees to the prevailing party in a contested contract action--I've been practicing in one for 20 years.

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Posted By: BlackSoxFan

Of course todd...i think we all know that someone can be awarded the fees...but i think hal is saying that it would be impractical to make it a law in every type of case. He's not saying that it doesn't happen, that it isn't a law in some areas, or that it is necessarily unreasonable if it does happen.

Regards,
Black Sox Fan

- - - - - - - - -

I'm Smart Enough To Know, There Are A Lot Of People Who Know More Than I Know

BlackSoxFan.com
email me

edited to apply Leon's correction of my stupidity! and by the way, please correct me hal if i have spoken too soon.

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Posted By: leon luckey

Not to put words in Todd's mouth but I think he IS saying it's the law where he lives/practices.....regards

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

ANY type of contract case?

Regardless of the amount?

That's crazy. Lawyer's must love it.

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Posted By: BlackSoxFan

Sorry i meant to say... IN ALL CASES ... heheheheh

Regards,
Black Sox Fan

- - - - - - - - -

I'm Smart Enough To Know, There Are A Lot Of People Who Know More Than I Know

BlackSoxFan.com
email me

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Granted, and lawyer worth his salt will have an "attorney's fee provision" included into any contract he drafts for a client...

but a lot of contracts are just informal letters between friends and therefore do not even mention anything about "prevailing fees."

Todd: WHAT STATE?

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Civil conversion? Wow -

What about "unlawful retention". It kind of makes you sick to think that someone would consider using some type of "squatters rights" defense on this. If there's a contract then the person with the cards should just pay the man from whom he got them. How do you try and defense keeping those cards without compensation (unless Ryan donated/gifted the cards to him which doesn't appear to be the case).

I guess it's hard to comment on this without seeing the contract but in any case you would think that a baisc contract would have stated that party A owed party B 'X' amount of dollars to complete the transaction.

Pretty sad.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

Sunny Arizona. And to answer your hypothetical, no, it's highly unlikely (read no way) that you would be considered prevailing party if you sued for $1M and won $1. Different story (probably) if you sued for $1000 and won $800, and then had $25K in fees. It would depend on prelitigation and post-litgation demands and settlement offers, to see how much litigation was necessary/could have been avoided. Also, judges not juries determine fees, and certain factors must be shown relating to reasonableness.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread, and don't want moderator dude-types on my case, so that's it in a way understated nutshell.

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Posted By: BlackSoxFan

I love it when you guys know more than i do.....keep talking ... i'm gonna shut up now and read!

Regards,
Black Sox Fan

- - - - - - - - -

I'm Smart Enough To Know, There Are A Lot Of People Who Know More Than I Know

BlackSoxFan.com
email me

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Posted By: James Feagin

Barry,

It doesn't seem so far-fetched that Mr. Delgado would rip someone off over a "measly" $30K (which is my humble salary). Many of the wealthy and powerful steal a little here, a shady deal here, it adds up. The Miami real estate market seems a perfect cover for such a thief.....

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

It seems hard to believe a man with a $2 million collection would stiff someone for 30K. Perhaps there is more to the story than meets the eye (as Barry suggested), but in any case we lawyers (and the rest of us I imagine) look forward to hearing the facts.

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Posted By: zach

ya....let's here the story! BTW Ryan sorry about not returning an email about the Capablance, my dad and I are still thinking about it.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

Ted, "I couldn't agree with you more," (whatever it was you finally said....)

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Posted By: Anson

$30k is more than enough to make sure this guy is blacklisted with collectors and earns his well-deserved reputation.

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Posted By: Brian (misunderestimated)

(and I apologize for my "lawyer talk") but is there a way to get this "out of contract and into tort" as a (statutory) consumer fraud claim ? Then attorney fees may be available... No need to respond I just had to get my (non-billable) two cents in.

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

First, let me say that I’m a little leery of posting in great detail about the situation since it appears there will have to be legal action taken. The bottom line is, I just want my money. And I don’t want others to go through the same experience I’m going through with the same person. I’m not looking to ruin anyone’s reputation here. If anyone’s reputation is affected by this deal it is due to their actions, not my posting about it.

Certainly there are numerous board members who have sold to Rooky13 on ebay and been paid promptly with no problem whatsoever. I check the auctions won for Rooky13 regularly and they have won plenty of cards during the 5 months that I have not been paid. If these auctions weren’t being paid for they’d have been NARUd a long time ago. I could have easily been paid off in full months ago had they paid me instead of buying more cards on ebay.

I also know for a fact that several major auction houses are in the same boat I’m in and are owed much more than I am. As far as I know, however, nothing is being shipped until payment is received.

I would prefer not to name the auction houses as I’m sure that these dealings have been bothersome enough without having to get involved on this board. If that’s not good enough and you think I’m lying or embellishing the truth, so be it.

I really don’t know how to explain this whole deal without it becoming a 300 page report, but I’ll try my best to summarize: Over a year ago I was contacted by Jorge Marce who said he’d found my website and was interested in cards of Negro League HOFers for a client of his. I sent some scans and some prices and nothing became of it, which is not too surprising. I get similar e-mails at least once a month and very often people have no idea how rare or expensive some of these cards are. I assumed that was the case here. Well, several months later, in February of this year, Jorge contacted me again and said his buyer was serious about getting cards of HOF Negro Leaguers. This time he put me in contact with Sergio directly and I spoke to him over the phone and got a better idea of what he was looking for. He asked me to put together several different groups of cards for him to consider buying. For example, one high-grade high-dollar group of the best cards in the best conditions, one low-grade, lower-dollar group that would at least fill some gaps in his collection but not cost as much, and several mid-range lots that had some high-grade cards as well as low-grade cards.

The prices began at $29,000 for the lowest group and $90,000 for the highest group. He wound up choosing the $90,000 group. We ultimately agreed on $85,000 after I added 2 other cards. One of the conditions of the deal was that I hand-deliver the cards instead of risking loss or damage by shipping them. We picked a date for me to fly to Miami and on April 15th I flew down to complete the deal. A few days earlier he had called to tell me that he wasn’t sure if he’d be able to pay me in full, but would be able to pay most of it on April 15th with the rest in a few weeks. He offered to postpone our meeting until he had all of the money but I had already purchased the plane tickets and re-arranged by schedule regarding my wife and kids, so I decided keep the meeting on the day we agreed upon.

You can read about the meeting in the link above to the thread I wrote back in May. I had brought a few other cards to show him and he actually wound up buying one of them for $1,750. This made the total amount of the deal $86,750. I received $40,000 that day. I was told it would be a few weeks for the rest so I asked for a contract to be drawn up and signed stating that he owed $46,750 to be paid within 30 days. We chose 30 days instead of 2 weeks in order to be sure there was plenty of time to pay without a problem.

Soon after that I won about $15,000 worth of stuff in one of the major auctions. I found that Sergio also won a bunch of stuff in the same auction. Since he was going to be sending them money any way, and since $15,000 of the money he was going to send me was just going to be sent right to the same auction house, I asked if he would mind sending them payment for my invoice when he sent payment for his. He agreed to this and spoke to the auction house about it. They agreed that this was okay. That was back in May. To this day, it has not been paid and my reputation with this auction house has undoubtedly been damaged. It looks like I’ll just have to do whatever I need to in order to get the money and pay the auction house myself.

Over and over I was promised again and again that I would be paid and that the auction items would be paid. I was even guaranteed that I have the auction items by the National, which was still several months away. I hadn’t even considered that I might not have the stuff by then. I planned to have almost all of it there for sale. Wishful thinking, I guess.

So in the period from April 15th until July 21st I received a total of $5,000. This left a $41,750 balance. On July 22nd I received a check for $10,000. The check cleared and left a balance of $31,750.

Several times I asked for him to just send some of the cards back and we’ll call part of the deal off. But he wanted to keep the cards and promised, as usual, to pay me. The check for $10,000 was actually supposed to be for the full amount of $41,750 but he said he had a huge real estate deal closing on August 23rd and if I could just wait a little longer he’d make it up to me. He even offered to pay me 10% interest. I told him I just wanted the rest of the money he owed me, but if he wanted to pay interest maybe we could apply it toward his next purchase. At this point I was still willing to entertain the idea of doing business with him again, I’d just be sure to be paid in full FIRST. After thinking about how much money I’ve paid out in interest for debts I have that could have been paid if he’d paid me on time, I sent him an e-mail accepting his offer of 10% interest. Needless to say, there is a 0% chance I will get any interest at all. He said he was netting $1,000,000 from this August 23rd real estate deal.

A few days ago I received another check which, if it clears, will bring the balance down to only the $15,000 for the auction items I won. So the amount I’m being taken for might wind up being only $15,000. Yes, only $15,000. Lucky me.

I finally considered the possibility that the plan might be to screw me on the remaining balance when I found out that he paid off the auction house for his items, but didn’t pay for mine. It’s possible that the only thing keeping me from being completely taken is the fact that the auction house will not send him his items until he pays for mine, since he had agreed back in May to do so. That might be the only hope I have of ever getting paid.

I could go on and on about unreturned phone calls, and empty promises, etc. but hopefully what I’ve written gives a good enough idea of what’s happened.

For those who find it hard to believe that a collector with a $2,000,000 collection would handle a deal this way, all I can say is, I agree with you.

-Ryan

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Posted By: Chad

I don't know this Sergio or have ever had dealings with him, but I do know from my having done business with Ryan that he holds himself to the highest standards of ethics. He's also generous and extremely trusting. After meeting him in person at the National, he let me take a card home without paying for it because I had the chance to purchase a higher priced card from another source. On another occasion, he even offered to loan me money for a card if it's auction price by some miracle stayed within reason. We've talked on the phone several times for hours about the niche of baseball history we're both passionate about, but we've also talked at length about the "business" of our hobby and what's right and what's wrong. All of this is to say, I think Ryan's credentials are impeccable as anyone who has dealt with him knows and, if this does become a case of who credibility on this board and in the hobby, I think Ryan has earned the benefit of the doubt.

--Chad

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I represent a lot of contractors, tradesmen and post-production facilities in the motion picture industry. I have sued a good number of very wealthy, "powerful", famous people. Just because the amounts in question are small potatoes to them doesn't mean that they don't go out of their way to try and keep what isn't theirs. It often seems that many of these people see it as a power trip to force a contractor to eat his bill, consider themselves to be hardball negotiators with a reputation that requires them to try it, or are just bent on proving that they will pay their creditors when they damned well please because they are big, important people in control of things. Right now I am wrapping up a case involving a major record company executive who cheated his contractor out of under $25,000 for his mansion remodel. I've had to pursue collections for clients who've done special effects on Oscar-winning films and are still denied their contracted-for fees on those films because the producer gets pissed off over some supposed personal slight or just wants to flex his muscles and prove he can force the contractor to eat **it. That a wealthy collector would gyp Ryan on a relatively small deal is by no means far-fetched. Ryan's situation sounds like a power play; the big, rich customer will pay when he feels like it, not when the merchant rightfully demands it.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I agree wholeheartedly with boxingcardman. The practise of not paying the copmparitive smaller party is rampant in our society.

I would have thought that, for example, major members of the oil industry and electric utility industry would be blue chip accounts that could be counted on for fairness in paying their bills; but they have personnel on staff who appear to define their usefullness as delaying payment as long as possible. Net 120 days and longer is the norm eventhough they agree in writing to net 30.

But they do pay.

Lets hope this real estate professional has the same pride.

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Posted By: jackgoodman

Agree completely with Warshawlaw and Gilbert.

I've been in the mortgage lending business for over 30 years and can't tell you the number of times we have turned down loans to the rich & famous (celebrities, athletes and the like) who didn't know how to make a single payment on time to anyone. It's either a power trip or the amounts are so insignificant to them, they think it must be insignificant to the creditor as well. Amazing.

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Posted By: David Smith

I wonder what Mr. Marce and Mr. Delgado would think if I represented a person interested in a "million dollar home" in Miami, I took the buyer to see the home and they loved it, gave the two gentlemen a Certified Check for $700,000 dollars and moved in immediately with the promise to pay the remainder in 30 days.

Then, six months later, after having lived in the home all the time, my buyer still hadn't paid them their money. I imagine the lawsuits and name calling would have already been initiated.

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Posted By: James Feagin

For those who still find it hard to believe that a guy with a multi-million dollar would steal for "peanuts", I would offer this. There's an old addage that an {insert adjective} knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Sergio has the money to pay the price on perhaps anything. However, the value of his collection, relationships, money, anything are mere formalities. Someone who doesn't value such attributes, no matter how wealthy, will screw over somebody for $100 just as often as they would for $1 million. It's not a price issue, but a character/value flaw.

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Posted By: Matt Goebel

becuase I consider Ryan to be a great friend and I have been privy to the situation from the outset. Let me echo the sentiments of other board members in saying that Ryan has always acted with the utmost integrity and professionalism. I have participated with him in many deals over the years that make this one with Mr. Delgado pale in comparison, and I have never given a second thought as to whether or not Ryan was trustworthy.

To me the sad part of the story, of which Ryan has understated in his descriptions, are the ancillary costs that he has incurred as a result. Not only monetary costs like interest and travel, but intangible costs like being put in a bind with the auction house, and having other deals be affected by these empty promises, not to mention the stress and disappointment of having this lingering dark cloud. At the same time Mr. Delgado has ended up with some of the greatest Negro League cards in the hobby (several of which came from Ryan's personal collection).

I know it is only as a last resort that Ryan has made the whole situation public - let's hope this has an effect and everything is made right in the near future.

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Posted By: Aaron M.

Doesn't sound to me like this guy is on any sort of power trip or looking to stick it to Ryan. Just seems like he is living (and buying cards) that are well outside his financial means. Translation: he's buying cards he can't afford, but like an addict he can't stop buying. Sound slike a BS'ing real estate "developer" to me.

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Having been a business manager for the past 19 years for higher net worth clients, I can tell you from personal experience that many of these people would be the first to admit they are not great handling their finances. Many do not have the time and/or the ability. I would have no way of knowing if Mr. Delgado is one of these people or if he is simply someone who may live beyond his means.

I hope the two parties can work this out. I think Ryan has handled himself with class, so far. It would have been nice if all of us who are not part of the dispute could refrain from projecting their personal issues with those who are more affluent, as one contributor has shamelessly failed to do. His sweeping generalizations regarding those with more money only illustrate his uncontrollable jealousy.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

which goes to show that nothing goes to show...

...but with more than twice the experience I have, he should know enough to know 1) people like to be paid promptly and 2) if you want something real bad, and can't afford it, you MUST demand an UNREASONABLE payment schedule, so the seller is not hung out to dry, waiting for your cash. If seller can do it, he probably will.

Very basic facts of buying and selling.

Since Rooky13 has whittled the 82K down to 15K, it stands to reasdon that he will finish paying someday...when Ryan has a long, white beard. Maybe he plans to leave it to Ryan in his will...

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Posted By: Josh K.

Julie,

Keep in mind that rooky 13 is not the person who owes ryan the money. His feedback is perfect and nothing about this situation suggests that rooky 13 will not pay for auctions that he wins.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

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Posted By: Jorge Marce

No Josh the one being attacked as Ryan points out is the Rooky13 team. Which he calls me and Sergio. I think thats wrong. Rooky13 is the name I use on Ebay. I did not buy his cards on Ebay. While yes, the majority of the cards I purchase are for Sergio, I purchase for others as well. Sergio bought his cards, a one on one deal, which since Sergio ended up closing the deal and I got cut out from my usual comm. rate. If I had a beef with one of the major consigners in Ryans auction house, I don't think I would take it out on Ryans auction house. Even if Ryan introduced me to him.

Fact: Ryan on your opening statements in the Plemmons thread you say you are ripped off 30000 by Mr Delgado even though you received a check for over 17k from him over two weeks earlier.


opinion: If I distrusted somebody and they sent me a check I would try and cash it right away to see if it was good.

Fact In the Rooky13 thread you say you are only really owed 15,000. Contradiction.

Opinion You are technically not owed anything by Mr Delgado since you say he is covering your debt with the auction house.

Fact If that is the case he owes the auction house 15000.

Fact You have discribed in one of these threads (I cant remember which) that Rooky13 is the team of me and Sergio.

Question: Ryan what is your team? Were all the cards you sold to Sergio yours? If they weren't whose were they. Did any belong to other members of this board? Just asking.

Opinion If any cards belong to other members of the board you should say so. And if that is the case I would NOT EXPECT YOU TO NAME YOUR TEAM MEMBERS
Because like me they are innocent parties and should not be drug thru the mud. Having said this they should also not post a thread giving opinions on these matters without disclosing their involvement. However if all the cards were yours, disregard.

Fact You stated in a previous thread that your reputation with a certain auction house has been tarnished thanks to Mr Delgado.

Opinion I would think that if a big collector who spends tons of money with that same auction house calls and vouches for somebody or better yet accepts responsibility for that persons debt that persons credit with that auction house would still be okay. Maybe I'm wrong?

Fact You are accusing Sergio of not living up to a contract.

Question Did you live up to the contract with the auction when you didn't pay them on time?

Opinion It was not Sergios responsibility to pay your auction house debt, it was yours.

Julie you are right, if the attack is on my Ebay handle, Rooky13, then I'll let my perfect feedback speak for itself.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

I suppose an interesting question that Mr. Marce might know the answer to would be, how many cards costing how much has Mr. Delgado purchased during the time he has owed money to Ryan?

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Posted By: Chad

There was an agreement in place and Mr. Delgado didn't and hasn't lived up to the agreement. Period. To try to attack Ryan's ethics and reputation as a defense is pure, unadulterated crap.

--Chad Johnson

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Posted By: Josh K.

Jorge,

I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt in my post above - if you read it carefully along with the post immediately prior to mine, you should see that. However, I have to agree with Chad that your attempt to sully Ryan's conduct is unwarranted and completely off base.

1. You comment about "Ryan's Team". First, I believe he owns all of his own cards (though he can certainly speak for himself on this poing) - even if he didnt, you are comparing apples to oranges. His "team", if one existed, didnt breach any agreement. In fact, it would be his team that is out of pocket because sergio has not paid for the cards in full. In other words, if he has a team and they were named, their names would not be dragged through the mud, to the contrary, they would be additional "victims" in this situation. Oh, and Ryan (as well as any team member) is an "innocent party" in this matter (and that wont change until we at least we hear Sergio's explanation for not paying).

2. You comment that Ryan is "technically not owed anything by Mr Delgado since he is covering Ryan's debt with the auction house." Incorrect - ultimately, Ryan is responsible for that debt if Sergio does not pay it. Its interesting that Sergio has paid his own debt to the auction house but not Ryan's - why is that?

3. After noting that Ryan's reputation with the auction house shouldnt be tarnished as he alleges, you then state:

"Fact You are accusing Sergio of not living up to a contract. Question Did you live up to the contract with the auction when you didn't pay them on time? Opinion It was not Sergios responsibility to pay your auction house debt, it was yours."

So which is it - was it Sergio's responsibility to pay the debt(as he agreed) or was it Ryan's responsibility? Of course if it was Ryan's, then his reputation with the auction house has been tarnished. And the reason its been tarnished? All together now - BECAUSE SERGIO HAS NOT PAID HIM WHAT IS OWED!

Your defense of Mr. Delgado is becoming a case study of contradictions. How about you try to get your boss to pay what is owed, the whole mess gets cleaned up, and I dont have to waste my time defending myself for defending you.

Finally, as a matter of full disclosure, I dont know Ryan personally, I am not "on his team", I dont own any of the cards unlawfully retained by Sergio, and I dont otherwise have any dog in this fight.

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Posted By: Jorge Marce

I did misread your first statement. I'm sorry. I wrote it when I first came in from work, around 2 am.

First of all Ryan has responded to some of my questions and has asked one of his own. The answer is yes ,there was an agreement for payment to be made in thirty days, and yes I volunteered to witness it.

1. I do believe that all the cards were not Ryans. If I remember correctly the original payments were split up and I believe they were made to one or more board members. But thats up to Ryan to say if I'm wrong. The point I'm making is if you are part of the deal you shouldn't make comments regarding what is going on with out stating that you are involved. And I think thats been happening. Thats all.

2. I believe that Sergio agreed to cover Ryans auction debt more than a month after it was due. Point I'm making is people who live in glass houses.....

3. Mr Delgado does not owe Ryan any money from what Sergio has told me, and from the comments Ryan has made, again I don't know everything thats going on. He does owe the auction house. And Ryan is wrong Mr Delgado does owe that auction house other money besides Ryans debt.

4. I should of stated my title as Facts and left out the opinions. That was a mistake on my part. We all know what opinions are like.

5. However, I stand by those facts.

Josh the part that bothers me the most is that Sergio and Ryan have their private conversations, negotiate and agree to a private deal, Ryan then has problems making contact with Sergio, drags me back in the mix as a go between, gets back in contact with Sergio, continue off and on conversations with Sergio for months, emails me and calls me on the phone every time Sergio doesn't call him back, and so on. One day he leaves a message on my cell, saying he recieved what I assumed was the final payment, but that Sergio didn't make the check out the way he wanted it. Its a long message so I email him back, and in the form of a question I ask for him to explain exactly what the problem is. For two reasons, first to find out exactly what he is talking about, and second to do what I do with all of Ryans emails, and fax them to Sergio. Most of these emails I barely look at or try to understand, after month after month of them I really don't care. Any ways, I entitle the email Final Payment thinking that this was the final payment due him and assuming that the auction house bill was paid. His response to me was that the check he received was also titled final payment and that by him cashing it does not excuse the auction bill. And this is what kills me, the fact that we both used the title final payment is a such a huge coincidence we are some how in co-hoots together to try and screw him. He ends the email by telling me I should get a lawyer. So here is my question to you, if I only know a small portion of what the hell is going on, and I've gone out of my way to keep the peace between them, and taken all of Ryans sh--- for month after month, and he then turns around and tells you to get a lawyer, then finally tops it off by saying a certain Board member Jorge Marce along with his client ripped me off to the tune of $30,000. Tell me Josh, how totally pissed off would you get.

Josh if Ryan would just explain to the board what set him off against me, I'm sure he has that "get a lawyer" email, its only a couple of weeks old. That, I feel would explain everything involving me. I've already stated what my final payment email said in a previous thread. If he would just do that I believe you could understand my anger.

I promised myself, since I don't know exactly what both parties (Sergio and Ryan) said to each other, that I would just stick to defending myself and not get caught up in the emotions. I'm getting away from my promise, so I apologize to the board members. I believe Mr Delgado will want to respond to this himself and I'll try to let Ryan and Sergio finish this off.

Once again Josh, I apologize.

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Jorge,

Not that I need to respond to your silly post, but I'll humor you with some "facts" as you seem to be a big fan of fact vs. opinion:

FACT: You are correct that the amount I am being ripped off is not $30,000. It is currently $31,750. If/when that check I received clears I will only be scammed out of $14,407.62. Until that check clears, it's still $31,750. I thought saying $30,000 instead of $31,750 and $15,000 instead of $14,407.62 would be easier but since you are one for accuracy, from here on out I promise, I will only say that you guys are stealing $31,750 from me. When the check clears I will then be sure to say that you're now only stealing $14,407.62. Do you feel more comfortable with the correct numbers?

FACT: Regarding the auction house, if Sergio never pays then I will. I'm not going to stiff them just because I'm being screwed. I've just been unable to afford to pay it off since I hadn't planned on not being paid from you guys.

FACT: Who is on my team? I am. Period. I think what you are cleverly trying to hint at is the fact that one of the cards was not mine, as you already know. The Aguilitas Pop Lloyd card was a friend of mine's. It was included in the deal because Sergio was looking for the best examples of the best cards and this is the highest graded card of a Negro League HOFer. That card was factored at $13,500. I made $0 on the card. No commission. No fee. Nothing. It was strictly to get Sergio a card he wanted and to sell a card for a friend. I'm not sure what your point is in bringing that up, though. If you guys screw me, I will still be paying $13,500 to my friend, $5,000 of which I have already paid. Maybe you can clarify what your point is in asking me about it.

FACT: Your wag-the-dog diversionary tactics do not change the focus of this thread or this situation one bit. Attacking me only makes YOU look worse. You think you're being subtle but you're not. You can try to make me out to be the bad guy here, but when we were at the National together and you ran out of cash didn't I lend you money so you wouldn't be stuck with no cash? This is months after I was already supposed to have been paid. And now I'm suddenly some jerk? You can call me a sucker for doing business with you but you, Jorge, have no right to question my personal character whatsoever. And quit mentioning Leon in your posts. It's clear you've been e-mailing him regularly about this thread, but if and when Leon wants to post something, edit something, or delete something, he'll do it. Trying to influence him is probably a waste of time as he tends to be pretty objective and detached when wearing his moderator hat, which is how is should be.

If you have any other questions about the way I do business feel free to ask.

And if you want all of this to go away and never hear from me again, all you have to do is see to it that I am paid what I'm owed.

-Ryan

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Just a brief note to clarify that my above post was in response to Jorge's "Facts and Opinions" post. I didn't see the "You are right Josh" post until after I posted.

-Ryan

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Jorge, you are really working overtime defending your client and explaining your position in this matter. I think it is shameful that Mr. Delgado has allowed you to be subjected to all this heat and caused you hours of posting on this board without being man enough to step forward and both explain his side of the story and get you off the hook. You have some responsibility here because I assume you get a commission every time you bid on a card for your client, but you have been subjected to all the slings and arrows of this dispute without the person you are defending coming to your defense.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Jorge,

You're wrong on several points.

First, it was not a month after the auction that Sergio agreed to pay my invoice. He agreed to pay me immediately at least enough to cover my auction winnings, and then I would pay the auction house directly. After he didn't pay me for several weeks, he agreed to pay the auction directly. So I guess I can still throw rocks.

Next, I'm not sure what Sergio has told you, but I was told by the auction house that he paid off his invoice, but didn't pay mine. Maybe you're thinking about one of the other auction houses that are still owed.

-Ryan

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Posted By: Jorge Marce

First of all, Leon you may display any emails I have sent you. Ryan that was very nice of you to lend me $100 which I immediatly gave you a check for. And this is my whole point. Ryan at what point did you decide to stop being nice to me and tell me to get a lawyer. What was the last straw? What am my guilty of. Am I guilty of cheating you for $30,000 like the Mike Plemmons thread reads. I think that if I had a check from somebody who I distrusted I would cash it right away and see if it clears then make the accusations. Has it been cashed yet? I didn't write the check so I really can't say wether it will clear or not. Ryan I have found you to be a knowledgeable person and a pleasure to be around. Its your emails and phone messages that drove me nuts. And its being called a crook that I cant forgive. The last time I checked with the auction house we still owed them money and that was a few days ago. Maybe somethings changed but I guess you would know better than I.

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Posted By: Jorge Marce

My reference is to when Sergio agreed with the auction house to pay your invoice. And maybe you would know the date better than I. Your reply is that you had an excuse for not paying your invoice, and i find that you saying somebody not paying their debts on time because of a reason, to be an interesting statement.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Neither Jorge, nor Ryan, have sent me any private emails about this. I am staying out of it.....

[Archive]

Posted By: R. D. Cook

Now this is a must-see reality show!
Move over Donald Trump, you've been replaced!
Or should I say: You're Fired!