Update on PWCC Bid Monitoring Program

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Leon

Nice list here. Certainly a ton of fraud going on,
still....

Yet their banner ad sits high and proud at the top of this page.

[Leon]

They are an advertiser. If you don't like it, leave.
I should add that, imo, the consignors who retract a lot of bids are committing the fraud. I hope PWCC will continue to put pressure on the retractors and reduce the number significantly in the near future. Ebay could do more too.....

Originally Posted by conor912

Yet their banner ad sits high and proud at the top of this page.

[Snapolit1]

Bid what a card is worth to you and not above that and you will never be defrauded.

There is fraud and fraudulent collusion and doctoring of cards in the hobby.

“I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on here!”

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Bid what a card is worth to you and not above that and you will never be defrauded.

There is fraud and fraudulent collusion and doctoring of cards in the hobby.

“I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on here!”

Two potential problems with your first thought, one, what a card is worth to you could well have been influenced by price inflation due to fraud, and two, even though you win a card for what it is worth to you, if the card was shill bid you might still pay more than you would have absent fraud.

Completely agree with your second thought.

[BeanTown]

PWCC business model is using the eBay platform and keeping the once successful auctions alive in the eBay community like it was over a decade ago. I Think we all agree we don't like seeing the same old cards with museum prices on them or a retail price without the auction excitement. Many complaints should go to eBay on their policies. Just set your snipe bid for a card you like and forget about it. You will either win it for what you were willing to pay for it, or you will lose it.

PWCC might want to block problem bidders who don't pay for items or people that constantly speak out saying they won't do business with them. I'm sure some of these people still bid in their auctions privately.

I'm thankful they are keeping the auction process alive and they are getting a tremendous amount of material consigned to them for us collectors to have the chance to bid in and possible own if we bid high enough.

[Peter_Spaeth]

JC I don't get your point. Are we supposed to be so grateful to PWCC for running auctions as opposed to BINs that we should overlook their flaws when people point them out, like selling a cleaned 4 as a 7 with no disclosure even though Brent was personally involved in the card's history, or announcing a crackdown on retracting bidders which as Eddie figured out in a few minutes isn't really taking place as advertised, and so on?

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

JC I don't get your point. Are we supposed to be so grateful to PWCC for running auctions as opposed to BINs that we should overlook their flaws when people point them out, like selling a cleaned 4 as a 7 with no disclosure, or announcing a crackdown on retracting bidders which as Eddie figured out in a few minutes isn't really taking place as advertised, and so on?

Peter, I'm looking at their business model as a whole. I love the true auction where everything starts out at 99 cents. There have been tremendous realized prices both low and high. I like that they allow Paypal payments and they ship very quickly. Plus I like they have fresh new material auctioning off every month without reserves (Yes, you can make the argument that a few lots have hidden reserves done by the consignor or by their friends).

I'm not dismissing one bit it was wrong what happened on the DiMaggio World Wide card which Brent IMO got greedy on and should have had full disclosure on it. I think and hope he should learn from other successful auction companies before it becomes too late with their habitual bad way of doing business like Doug Allen and the king fish of Bill Mastro. Hopefully Brent doesn't follow in their footsteps which includes the people he chooses to surround himself in the hobby circle. Allen and Mastro were tight with John Rogers who we all know how he is/was.

I know many of us want Brent with PWCC to be the pioneer in the hobby on eBay to weed out the already flawed system eBay has. It's true he can do more to prevent fraud and shenanigans. It's a positive step that they are willing to do this unlike many other eBay sellers who can hide behind different alias names.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Bid what a card is worth to you and not above that and you will never be defrauded.

There is fraud and fraudulent collusion and doctoring of cards in the hobby.

“I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on here!”

++ There is also soaking, shilling, frosting, cracking, reprinting, counterfeiting, card doctoring, bid peddling, etc. It's what makes our hobby unique. Do your research; understand how your money is spent. if you choose to put your head up your ass and blame others for how you got f'd, then no amount of threads on this forum is going to help you.

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Bid what a card is worth to you and not above that and you will never be defrauded.

I list a card on EBAY for 99 cents.

You see it, think it's value is $1,000 and place a snipe for $750.

Heading into the final minute of the auction I see the card has no bids and use a different account to place a bid of $500 within the final seconds.

The auction ends with two bids -- mine and yours. You win the card for $505, more than $200 less than what you were willing to pay!!!!! Had I not shilled it, you would have paid .99.

Using your logic, you didn't get shilled or cheated because you paid less than what you were willing to.

I know this example is unrealistic and very simple. I did it that way so its easy to understand. But the number of bids, the amount of bids and the timing the bids are placed makes no difference. A buyers state of mind or what he's "willing" to pay add nothing to the definition of shilling or being cheated.

[HRBAKER]

JC,
You may have a more expansive view of what constitutes a "true auction" than others.

[nrm1977]

Great news! Now maybe you can focus on; asking clients to bid on items?