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Old 11-01-2016, 04:00 PM
Pat R's Avatar
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Default SC 150/649 Opposite Sheet Matches

I just started checking the SC 150 Factory 649's for print flaws and to see
if they might occur on more than one subject. These are a lot harder to spot than
the Plate scratch and Polar Bear flaws but fortunately there are only 34 subjects.

First I wanted to make sure that most of them are re-occurring flaws.

Here are three different Bresnahan's with the same flaw.
Bresnahan%20649.jpg
Bresnahan%20649%20B.jpg
Bresnahan%20649%20C.jpg

Here's are couple of opposite sheet matches I found.
Bransfield%20-%20Ewing.jpg
Mathewson%20-%20Copy.jpg

The Matty/George Davis combo got me thinking about one of the PD 150
plate scratch sheets. Erick S and I had a discussion about one of the
horizontal slots on the A-B sheet shown here....
Sheet A-B.jpg

The slot in question was the one with Murphy and George Davis.
Sheet [A-B] X.jpg
Erick asked me if Matty should be in that spot instead of Davis and I had told
him that when I was putting this sheet together I was undecided about which
one should be there until I had taken a closer look at all three, Murphy/Davis and Matty.

I only had a blurry scan of the Matty but Murphy and Davis have other marks
that definitely make them a match.
Murphy 2 - Davis, G. 2.jpg
Murphy 2 - Davis, G. 2 - Copy.jpg
Here's a close up of the lower mark on Murphy and Davis.
Davis, G [2] Back - Copy.jpg

Now all of the horizontal positions on the A-B sheet only have (had) two
subjects for each scratch so I put Murphy and Davis together on this sheet.

After finding the Davis/Matty connection on the SC 649's I took another
look at the Matty scan (this is an old scan and I have seen this matty scratch since then but I couldn't find a better scan in my records). Even with the blurry scan
I think this Matty is a match.
Mathewson%20_white%20cap_%201%20%20_Back_ - Copy.jpg

I went through all of my scans again and there are still only two subjects
for each slot with the exception of this one.
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:11 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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I suspect you'll find a few more with three different on the plate scratches.

In complex terms, the sheet that was used for the SC 150/649s also got at least a few P150 backs, while other sheets that got P150 backs with the scratch were earlier but didn't last into SC150/649 production.

How many with three different fronts should give another clue to sheet size, and at the same time narrow down the sheet composition for at least one sheet.

There's a few interesting questions with the SC150/649s, a couple of them don't match the rest as far as what backs are verified (Last I checked, I still need to check the more recent lists) So the question there is if the sheet carried over to the generic backs, or if new layouts were done with the same art, or if as happened with at least a couple cards the 350 backs have fronts that differ from the 150 version.

The stuff Pat is doing could also eventually show the difference between cards as packed for the Philadelphia area or "other than Philadelphia area" as the packing log showed. The could/should be minor differences in fronts within the 150 series. Very minor ones, but differences all the same.

Steve B
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Old 11-01-2016, 08:56 PM
RedsFan1941 RedsFan1941 is online now
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Pat, As a T206 collector for more than thirty years, I would just like to say thank-you for this groundbreaking research (and the other backs your doing). I look forward to when you puzzle together a full sheet for collectors to see.
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Old 11-04-2016, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsFan1941 View Post
Pat, As a T206 collector for more than thirty years, I would just like to say thank-you for this groundbreaking research (and the other backs your doing). I look forward to when you puzzle together a full sheet for collectors to see.
+1....
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Old 11-06-2016, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsFan1941 View Post
Pat, As a T206 collector for more than thirty years, I would just like to say thank-you for this groundbreaking research (and the other backs your doing). I look forward to when you puzzle together a full sheet for collectors to see.
Thank you for the kind words Ronnie and Leon.

Here's a different mark that also pairs up Mathewson and George Davis.
Mathewson 2A.jpgDavis, G. 3.jpg
Mathewson SC 649 2A.jpgDavis, G. SC 649 3.jpg
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Old 11-06-2016, 03:15 PM
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Pat,

I have 32 of the 34 (missing Bates and Gilbert, if someone has any laying around ) ....................

................. absolutely nothing. Just like my Polar Bears, all backs are perfectly normal ........


I reiterate what others have said: Unreal work, fascinating and appreciated !!!

Hopefully, I'll find something someday for you.


Great, Scott
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Old 11-06-2016, 05:12 PM
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Thank you for checking your 649's Scott.

Good luck with the Bates and Gilbert. I would be happy to help you out
if I could. I do have a Bates but it's a double name card that I really like.
Bates SC 649.jpg

It also has a distinctive mark on the back that I haven't paired up yet.
Bates SC 649 Back - Copy.jpg
Bates SC 649 Back - Copy - Copy.jpg

Patrick







I found the match for Bates.

Clarke, J. J. SC 649-Matches Bates.jpg Clarke, J.J. SC649.jpg

Bates-Clarke, J.J. SC649.jpg

Here's what I have so far for the two SC150/649 sheets. The top one
is the first sheet based on the PD150 plate scratches and the bottom
is what I have so far for the second sheet from matching the
649 flaws with subjects from the top sheet. The Mathewson is a ?
for the reasons stated earlier in this thread but it definitely shares
the same 649 flaw with George Davis.

Z SC 150-649 Sheets.jpg

Last edited by Pat R; 02-12-2018 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 11-07-2016, 11:55 AM
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That Bates is way to nice for me !!!!!!

Sweet card.

Also checked for the "new" lower right mark, nothing......

Fun, Scott
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Old 02-12-2018, 01:22 PM
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I found a match for the Bates it's in post #7 that I updated.
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