Mastro and Psa

[Archive]

Posted By: shelly jaffe

'Babe' sellers see bad signs

Give authenticators failing grade

BY MICHAEL O'KEEFFE
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Monday, August 6th 2007, 4:00 AM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Print Email Suggest a Story

Babe Ruth

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Longtime TV sports journalist Robert Bender left his family with a mountain of medical bills when he died last fall after suffering for years from Alzheimer's disease. But he did leave his survivors with several assets, including a home in Hilton Head, S.C., and his collection of sports memorabilia, most notably a baseball autographed by Babe Ruth.

Bender's family hoped to sell those items to pay off its debts, but the declining real estate market has made it difficult to sell the home in South Carolina. The politics of the sports memorabilia industry, the family says, have set back its efforts to get a fair price for the Ruth ball.

"We were punished," Bender's son Bob Bender says, "because we didn't choose to sell the ball through Mastro Auctions."

In the world of sports memorabilia, authenticators are supposed to be knowledgeable third parties who grade autographed balls, trading cards, jerseys and other collectibles with a cold, objective eye.

But collectors and dealers have complained for years that authentication companies award higher grades for big-volume customers, including Mastro Auctions, sports memorabilia's largest auction house. The story of Robert Bender's Babe Ruth baseball, they say, suggests the relationship between Mastro Auctions and PSA/DNA, the hobby's biggest autograph-authentication service, is too cozy.

"There's no doubt Mastro gets preferential treatment from PSA/DNA," one hobby executive says.

Robert Bender, the longtime sports director at WGY-TV in upstate Schenectady, met and interviewed some of the biggest names in sports history, including Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams, according to his son, who now lives in Atlanta. Along the way, Robert Bender picked up some souvenirs, including the ball autographed by the great Ruth. "He probably got it during an interview," Bender says.

His father, Bender adds, must have had a sense that the ball would be worth something some day, because he didn't leave it lying around the house, where his kids might grab it for use in a sandlot game. Instead, he put it in a safe-deposit box with its original carton, where it sat undisturbed for decades.

Shortly after Bender's death, his family decided to consign the Ruth ball and other autographed baseballs to an auction house. After researching various houses, Bob Bender settled on two candidates - Mastro Auctions and Long Island-based Leland's. Both companies, after being provided scans of the ball, said the ball would be a star of any auction because it was in great shape and the autograph was crisp and sharp. According to Bender, both guaranteed at least $75,000 for the ball but said it would probably go for six figures.

"They both led us to believe it was one of the best Ruth balls they had ever seen," said Jean Bender, Bob Bender's wife.

Leland's ultimately got the nod, Bob Bender says, because it seemed more responsive and more personable. When Mastro president Doug Allen was informed about the decision, however, he told Bender his family had made a terrible mistake.

"The reason for my concern is relationships," Allen wrote in a November e-mail to Bob Bender. "The other balls in the collection will take care of themselves. The Ruth ball on the other hand will depend on relationships; a relationship with PSA/DNA and relationship with high-end customers. I already shared the images with PSA/DNA and am convinced we could have maximized the grade on the ball."

In another e-mail, Allen said, "I hate to see you go with a firm that cannot maximize the grade with PSA and ensure you get a world-class price for this ball."

Allen says he was not suggesting Mastro Auctions could pull strings to get a higher grade than Leland's. Instead, he says, his company knows what items should be graded and how to prepare them. "I spend more money for our customers than any other auction house," he says. "We get record prices for our items."

The Bender family, however, was not persuaded to change its mind. The ball was given to Leland's, which then submitted it to PSA/DNA.

PSA/DNA, however, first claimed there was evidence that two other autographs had been removed from the Ruth ball, which would significantly reduce its value. Leland's submitted the ball a second time and was told an inscription had been removed, which would also erode its value.

Leland's finally brought the ball to James Spence Authentication, a Pennsylvania autograph authentication service that ran the ball through its video spectral comparator, a sophisticated machine that uses magnification and different kinds of light to detect erasures and forgeries.

"You can see things you can't with the naked eye," says Spence. "There was no evidence that anything had been removed. There are differences of opinion, but we had six people huddled around it through different cycles. We did our due diligence and we believe nothing had been removed."

PSA/DNA president Joe Orlando did not return a call for comment. PSA/DNA eventually graded the Benders' Ruth ball an eight on a scale of 10, and although it's a high grade, it would not likely bring the six-figure payoff Bender says Leland's and Mastro Auctions had said the ball would fetch.

The whole experience has left Bender with a bad taste, and he says his family will hang on to the ball for now and try to sell it at a later date.

"I wish I knew more about this industry before I started messing with it," Bender says. "We're not sure what to do now."

Related Articles

[Archive]

Posted By: E, Daniel

A quality story with just the facts.....who'd have thought?
Certainly, there now seems to be a series of such incidents that are building a less than stellar picture of Mastro Auctions.


Daniel

[Archive]

Posted By: Jason L

Not sure I really have anything else to say about it, because those comments would likely be irresponsible and inappropriate.

[Archive]

Posted By: Marc S.

In another e-mail, Allen said, "I hate to see you go with a firm that cannot maximize the grade with PSA..."

[Archive]

Posted By: DJ

Trial with Bill Daniels...Shill Bidding accusations...now this.

Doesn't it seem like every month there's something?

Autographalert.com noted that the entire autograph industry is in "shambles" and there's no question that this doesn't help it's cause.

DJ

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim Dale

Someone suggested that cards were being reslabbed by PSA to hold different registration numbers when they were put up for auction (again) after not selling - was that Mastro auctions?

[Archive]

Posted By: PAS

that was Memory Lane

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave F

What paper is this from? "Daily News" hardly narrows it down.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

Don't care what anyone thinks of O'Keefe.....this paints a truly terrible picture of the people at Mastro, and PSA....YET AGAIN !!! Further evidence that both companies can manipulate the sports memorabilia market seemingly at will.

[Archive]

Posted By: Richard Simon

"I hate to see you go with a firm that cannot maximize the grade with PSA", Doug Allen.
There is only one way to interpret that statement as far as I know.
--

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

[Archive]

Posted By: Richard Simon

For the person who asked - the story is from the NY Daily News.
--

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Whatever O'Keefe's agenda may or may not be, those are quotes he is offering and if accurate, are pretty damning

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Damn that O'Keefe! Now he's inventing Doug Allen emails! I smell a conspiracy....

[Archive]

Posted By: Joseph

It always amazes me that a Doug Allen would memorialize his concerns IN WRITING. He really must believe there's nothing untoward about what he said about "relationships" in that email...

And another thing: SO WHO GOT IT RIGHT? Were there sigs removed from the ball?

[Archive]

Posted By: PAS

Doug did not say Mastro would alter the ball in any way. Nor did he say Mastro could obtain an inappropriate grade. EDITED TO ADD I think what people are reacting to is the explicit statement that grading is not always entirely anonymous. But is that Doug Allen's fault? Or is it PSA's fault? Or is it just inherent in the system?

[Archive]

Posted By: E, Daniel

How exactly does Mastro 'prepare' signed pieces (as opposed to generic sportscards which we have been apprised of ) for grading, and by what method can they profess to 'maximize' grades with PSA, seemingly unavailable to another submitter..??

Seems a pretty astonishing statement to make.


Daniel

[Archive]

Posted By: Chris

Allen says he was not suggesting Mastro Auctions could pull strings to get a higher grade than Leland's. Instead, he says, his company knows what items should be graded and how to prepare them.

******************************************

That's an especially strange reaction given that the consignor probably told Mastro that he chose Leland's. It's not like they're a bunch of hacks. What special 'prep' methods does Mastro use that Leland's wouldn't utilize on an item this valuable?

edited to correct typo.

[Archive]

Posted By: PAS

Daniel I don't know what exactly is involved in grading a ball, but obviously there is some subjective element. Perhaps Doug meant only that a firm such as Mastro, with its own in-house experts etc., could more effectively present a case to PSA that a ball was deserving of a particular grade. In an ideal world I guess items would be graded without the grader knowing the identity of the submitter and without any interaction, but one would have to be naive to think that is always the case.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jason L

for grading submissions, and those instructions are available for all to see on the grader's website.

But for my next submission, perhaps I will iron out creases, fold back bent paper layers, and then stamp my submission form with a Mastro label!

Hmmmph.

[Archive]

Posted By: DJ

If this item was in a single household, kept in wonderful condition over all these years (and the ball was in nice shape), how did a couple of signatures simply desolve over the years? Do you think the recent discovery of a multi-signed ball by people uninvolved (and unknowing) decided to mess with the ball by exposing it to chemicals to remove the other signatures or doing research to manually fade the signatures?

Thankfully they didn't come across the Mona Lisa or they would have drawn a smile on it?

If PSA/DNA made mention of removed signatures or personalizations and JSA says "no way" and has the technology (does PSA/DNA not have this technology?), what does that say about PSA/DNA? It's not like an autograph which is subjective, like the signature comes into question. There has to be a true device to determine whether there was ink already on something...a machine...a man in a white coat with a forensic degree...something.

Something stinks here folks.

DJ

[Archive]

Posted By: PAS

Thankfully they didn't come across the Mona Lisa or they would have drawn a smile on it?

That IS a smile.

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

One thing to note is that Mastro uses both PSA/DNA and JSA for their auction autographs.

[Archive]

Posted By: DJ

I have seen some items in Mastro that have only had one issued LOA (not sure if recently) and I have even seen that didn't have any LOA from either of the respected companies.

David, curious, why all the editing after each post?

DJ

[Archive]

Posted By: shelly jaffe

DJ please read the artical. What does Mastro using both authenticators have to do with story.

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

I was just pointing out that this isn't a tale about the opinion of a company Mastro uses and supports versus the opinion of an outsider company. Mastro uses and supports both companies.

[Archive]

Posted By: DJ

I did read the article Shelly.

I was making a comment on David's post.

DJ

[Archive]

Posted By: shelly jaffe

Sorry I ment to write David not you.

[Archive]

Posted By: Neal Kane

if some facts are being left out.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jay

I'm sure that if Doug said these things he was simply indicating that Mastro would do a better job communicating the history of the item to PSA to facilitate their work. There is no preparation with a ball--pack it up securely, ship it off. If in fact PSA would give favorable treatment to a Mastro submission over a Lelands submission then that is an indictment of PSA not of Mastro.

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

Doug could have and probably should have said that he felt the ball would sell for more in a Mastro auction than in other auctions, and left it at that. Relationships with high end collectors is fine to mention, after all they are the bidders. Talking about maximizing grade doesn't sound good. I don't know how one maximizes the grade without something unwholesome not going on.

As a nickel and dime collector, the only way I would know how to 'maximize' the grade for one of my baseball cards is either to 'prepare' it, get preferential treatment from a grader or resubmit it multiple times (and hope the grade doesn't go lower!). As I don't alter cards, don't know a grader and have never submitted a card for grading, I guess I've never maximized a card.

[Archive]

Posted By: DJ

There are always facts left out in cases like this.

We have all heard stories like this with authenticating companies. It's just yet another black eye for the autograph business. How many eyes does it have left?

DJ

[Archive]

Posted By: Josh Adams

I would like to see the entire email, not just a couple sentences.

[Archive]

Posted By: Chad

It is an indictment of Mastro if they're using strongarm tactics to manipulate the authentication business. That said, we're only getting one side of the story here.

--Chad

[Archive]

Posted By: T206Collector

...that the Bender family never should have gone public with this story, since it will follow this baseball around like a cloud of suspicion.

[Archive]

Posted By: Chad

I'm just saying...

--Chad

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

DJ, I edit my posts as Leon calls me and says, "You can't use that word!," "You can't say that-- they're one of our advertisers!" and "Just wait until SGC pays their banner bill, then you can what you want." We also disagree about which is correct translation of Lautreamont to quote from.

[Archive]

Posted By: shelly jaffe

Here is what bothers me the most about the article. Psa turns down the ball twice and in the end they grade it and 8. If the ball had signatures removed in the beginning what happened to them in the end?

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

Damn. I don't like this O'Keeffe dude, but Doug Allen has got some explaining to do...and not just for this baseball. He still has not addressed the football helmet that was being discussed over at GU.

[Archive]

Posted By: PAS

I agree that the apparent inconsistency of the grading service is more troubling than anything Doug said. But one sees this all the time with cards, a card gets rejected for one reason, then for a different reason, then it gets slabbed. What this underscores to me is that we ultimately are talking about OPINIONS, not facts.

[Archive]

Posted By: shelly jaffe

What i am talking about is that only after Jsa said the ball was good did PSA then authenticate it. It seems that there is something rotten in Denmark.

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

Allen says he was not suggesting Mastro Auctions could pull strings to get a higher grade than Leland's. Instead, he says, his company knows what items should be graded and how to prepare them.

To me, if this is true, it the most damning comment. I'd like to know what they were planning to do to "prepare" this ball for grading? I thought Doug came on this board and said Mastro wouldn't be doing things like that anymore? Maybe I misunderstood him.

the more I learn and hear about what goes on behind the scenes at Mastro the more I really distrust them and wonder just how much, if anything in their auctions is unaltered.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

[Archive]

Posted By: bruce Dorskind

In the fiercely competitive world of baseball card and autograph dealers,
competition for the very best items is cut throat at best.

We study dozens of publications and a plethora of web sites.

Regardless of whether an advert appears in a "hobby magazine."
price guide or antique publication nearly every dealer promises
"record prices."

In fact, Mastro Auctions is far more conservative in its advertising
approach than a number of other dealers.

Our experience with Doug Allen and Mastro has always been positive.
They don't over promise and they work hard to ensure that the items
they sell are properly presented and realize a price which meets or
exceeds the seller's expectations.

Mastro's marketing efforts pale in comparison to those of the best
known international auction houses...several of whom have funded both
buyers and sellers in the same auction.

We have the upmost respect for Mastro Auctions, and it has, in fact, been
our second best resource (REA has provided impecable service to us both
as a buyer and a seller).

Whilst no auction house or invidivual is "perfect" the shameless attacks on
Mastro emanate more from jealousy and envy than from fact.

What is particularly interesting to us is that many of the lead attackers don't
even have the resources to buy the catalog never mind the items that
are being sold.

Mastro, while not perfect, has made an incredible contribution to this hobby.
Their efforts have brought amny long lost items to the public's attention.

We ask that those who are all too anxious to be critical analyze the facts and
attempt to control their lack of emotional intelligence.

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

Thanks for the jab Bruce. I always appreciate it. As always, you prove you are lowest of low of the upper class that you try so hard to pass yourself off as. I know people that you would call trailer trash that have more class than you do.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Oh boy, here we go!

I don't think envy or jealousy is the issue here. Even I have some concerns with the phrase "preparing things", but I am not envious of Mastro Auctions by showing curiosity.

I think it's fair to ask them what that statement means.

[Archive]

Posted By: jeffdrum

How much money does one have to have in order to have an opinion or point of view that's relevant? Just wanting to know so I can save my breath if need be.

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

Jeff, you have to at least be able to trace your roots back to the Mayflower and us "we" instead of "I" in order to have an opinion that counts.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

[Archive]

Posted By: David Davis

Whilst I can afford the catalog from Mastro, I cannot afford to continue reading diatribes from Bruce Dorskind without responding.

The only times he posts anything is to copy a press release from another website, or to promote some item he loaned to a museum. There are far richer people who read this board, and who have collections that blow his away.

He has never once that I have seen shown a scan of an item he presumably owns (although he has been asked many times to show them), and does nothing to contribute positively to this board.

I prefer reading the antics of Scott Elkins, and the conservative posturings of Jim Crandell over anything Bruce has to write.

I still want to know if he uses the royal "we" in his communications with whatever clients he might have. Pompous seems to kind a word, but I will leave it at that.

[Archive]

Posted By: Gilbert Maines

.

[Archive]

Posted By: bruce Dorskind

We wonder who has supplied you with information with regard to income of Board Readers?
In fact, there are a cadre of people who read the Board, but never post. It is interesting that
you are able to compare and constrast their incomes. What other special talents do you have?

And which Federal Laws have you violated in order to obtain the recent tax returns of Board Members?
.
Our postings reflect our opinion. The point of the Mastro Posting was simply to acknowledge that
Mastro Auctions has made an important contribution to the hobby. It is inappropriate to draw
conclusions about an issue from one newspaper story.

As for posting items from our collection, we refer you to numerous books where said items have
appeared...that is, of course, if you are able to read English.


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Why don't we all calm down a little before this gets out of control.

Bruce, please try to address people with a little more respect. You can state any opinion you want but you can also do it without putting yourself on your own pedestal.

Mastro has made contributions to the hobby, but the company has found themselves in the middle of a lot of controversy lately. And anybody is fair game. People have questions and would like answers. That seems reasonable, don't you think?