The official Net54 Auction discussion thread :)

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Posted By: leon

If nothing else I can try to help keep this organized. Let's discuss the auction suggestion here instead of the other 2 threads. My only rules so far are that I will not make a penny and there will not be multiple single auctions in the main forum. I am only trying to help. I don't want anyone leaving the board over it, or convulsing, or jumping out of a hi rise in panic.....discuss away....

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Leon, perhaps there should be an official Net 54 discussion thread of the Auction disucssion thread?

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Posted By: leon

Nice idea...I think we should have a dinner in NY over it...shall we vote on when and where?

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Posted By: paulstratton

I think it's a terrible idea to have it on the main page. Why him? Why now?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Humor aside, I am going to repeat what I have said on the other thread...I think Michael jumped the gun by starting an auction without all the rules set in place. There is going to be a dispute at the end when two bidders claim proprietary rights to the card over some miniscule loophole that nobody thought of. How can you have an auction without set rules?

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Posted By: Sean

I posted this in the other thread...

Michael,
Some comments since there are a few questions going on in your auction.

1. Slow it down; seems like it might have been thrown up a bit too quick and there are a lot of ideas going right now. If we want to see how it really works there should be a consensus of that some rules should be.
2. Bid increments; percent or dollar amount (so there is no $300.01)?
3. Ending time; to have it run more like a live auction it should end at 8PM a have a minute rule (5, 10, 15 ect) until bidding stops.
4. Shipping and payment guidelines in listing.

After we all feel okay with some guidelines there will be less question asking in the auction and it will be easier to find out if this is something that is feasible.

My 2 cents.

Sean BH

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I like the BST idea the best.There should be a rule tho about bidding in increments,that way no one feels awkward leaving a 1200 bid on something thats only at $200 at the time of the bid. You would have to raise it then immediately to 1200 because it wouldnt make sense to have someone bid that much and then someone later say ill bid 1100 when obviously they arent going to be the high bidder and its right in front of them. I know if im willing to pay $600 for a card i dont want to find out that no one else wouldve bid $300 for it and i ended up paying double for nothing.

If you do a BST thread,id suggest taking bids up till the set closing time,then only people who bid already in the thread can bid again,but it goes in set increments and first one to post gets that bid in case 2 people try the same bid at the same time.Then just have a 10 minute rule in effect

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Posted By: Joe D.

this was rushed a bit.

I think with a little bit of thinking we can come up with some ground rules that will allow auctions like this to take place.

*My one big suggestion is that auctions extend past the end time - so that the rediculous rush to bid in the last minute is no longer necessary... and bidders can have a legitimate shot at bidding to the highest they want to go.


And one other thing....
Barry - I don't think this in any way can even come close to competition for a real auction house, such as your own. It is however a nice variation on the straight B/S/T. Certain spot situations this could be great --- but there will still be reason for eBay, and still be reason for all of the other auction houses.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Leon, we all know you just want to come to NY for dinner so why don't you cast the first vote on whether you'd like a steak or tacos, east side or west side, uptown or downtown, manhattan or brooklyn, weekday or weekend or a Monday holiday, during Lent or after (or before). And I'm warning you beforehand not to even think of jamming your preferences down our throats.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Best rule to follow: The auctioneer says it ends at 8 pm sharp and goes to the highest bidder, TBD at his sole discretion. I would suggest secret bidding, however, by email.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

guys- maybe it was rushed, but it is open and live, so if there are flaws, we can learn from them...i can see what changes you all are suggesting, but i don't forsee any major problems with the way it is set up...

i'll let it run it's course unless Leon wants it to end...fair enough? let's use it as the guini pig, and learn from it...

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Posted By: Joann

I have a half-baked idea rattling around my head. But first I have to ask a few related questions:

Do any of the auction houses accept a bid that simply says "Top All Bids" with no set amount, but that person would win by one bid increment over the highest bidder at hammer time?

If so, what do they do if more than one person submits a "Top All Bids" bid?

Just FYI, I'm thinking about posting an auction in the BST sometime this weekend. I'll use a lower end card that I don't mind losing and probably won't cause a lot of controversy. I'd put it out there somewhat to be able to pass on the learnings from the process - what worked, what didn't, what caused problems, etc.

I'm not trying to advertise - the card isn't worth that.

Anyone know how auction houses handle multiple Top All Bids bids, or if they even take them?

J

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Posted By: MVSNYC

interesting concept, i have never heard of such a thing...and IF there was such a thing...only one bidder per item could have such a "privelidge"...or else two of those would not work on one lot...

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Posted By: Joe D.

sounds good...

Please post a rule list with the auction.

and my favorite (as mentioned) is...

*10 minute extension rule (eliminates rush to the end bidding)

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Posted By: Joann

Mike - It seems like I remember reading about Top All Bids somewhere along the way - it may have been quite awhile ago and I remember thinking at the time that it sounded like a bad idea for both bidder and seller. I thought someone here might know if/how it works.

Joe - I would post rules, and probably put some kind of X minute rule at the end just to see how that works. I still wish I could think of a way to let someone leave a max bid anonymously, keep the actual current highest price updated, etc. That whole issue seems complicated. But as I buyer, I do like to "set it and forget it" on bids sometimes rather than having to be at the computer for overtime bidding.

Oh well. We'll continue and learn as we go. Maybe it will work, maybe not, but at least we are trying something as an ebay alternative.

J

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Posted By: barrysloate

Joann- auction houses generally don't accept "top all" bids. When I run auctions people are free to leave as high a ceiling as they want, but it has to be a specific increment. What if you gave me a top all bid on a $500 card and I told you the next day you won it for a million dollars. Top alls don't work.

And to answer Jeff- 6:45 PM at Peter Luger's on a weeknight- and anyone who disagrees doesn't even deserve to live!!! (I'm taking a hard line here).

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Posted By: Charlie O'Neal

There is one potential problem doing auctions thru the board.

If more auctions were run thru the board there would be some that are completely missed. As more and more cards were being posted, some of the auctions would make it to the second page where most people do not look.

Also, it seems like it would be very difficult if not impossible to see a listing that ends within 1 hour. In my mind would hurt the overall price of an auction especially if it was a common card.

While I do like the idea of having an alternative to eBay, I really suggest auction software should be used in your testing to make the success/failure rate more realistic.


Just my thoughts

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Posted By: JK

This should be on the B/S/T thread, perhaps in a new category called N54 Auctions. I really dont want to see auctions overrun the first page of the forum. Further, didnt Rob (dont recall his id for sure) just get a thread deleted for offering something for sale in the main forum - it wasnt an auction, but I really dont see a difference.

edited to add - Im all for auctions on n54, just not in the main forum.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Highest bidder wins! (this is the normal route I guess - unless some chump offers the seller an agreed upon amount that the seller accepts before the end of the auction...) Ok, none of that, once it's up, it's up (there, a new rule). N54 VBC law? Yes? No?

In case of a tie, the person that placed the first initial high bid gets the lot or you can establish a tie breaker where each of the top bids can put in a new top bid to determine the winner. There might be a point where both parties say that is the top bid. If that's a case then let each one know about the tie and they both can determine if they want to go a dollar (or certain percentage higher) to have a defined winner. Heck you might get one person going up a dollar and the next going 5 dollars....

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Posted By: Dave

Bid Increments to Begin With..
Auctions from $1 to $100 $2 increments
$100-$500 $10 increments
$500-$1000 $25 increments
$1000 and up $100 increments.

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Posted By: dennis

auctions should be kept in the B/S/T(UNLESS LEON OPENS A AUCTION AREA) and done on an email basis. it should be a silent auction with all who bid leaving a message that they sent a bid on the B/S/T AREA under that auction. keep the amount secret and the high bidder wins. just like the regular B/S/T except they should all run 7 days from posting. if only 1 person bids buyer has to sell. no off auction sales and no pulling a card with no bids. auction can have a reserve price but it must be noted in the 1st auction thread.no Bid Increments and no posts listing the high bid. very simple and no auctions on the main forum.if this don't work go to EBAY.

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Adam,

How would secret e-mail bids help provide an alternative to the absurd anonymous bid history ebay has recently implemented? I thought part of the reason for these auctions was to offer an alternative to ebay. That sounds like more of the same to me. If these auctions use secret e-mail bids I bet we'll see half the threads on this forum become about who was the underbidder on this lot someone won.

The alternative of having fully transparent auctions where the bid history and bidder names are all visible also has problems. I can see some nice resentments started by people getting outbid on cards they need. "How dare you outbid me on that card when you know I need it for my set!!!"

I think the potential exists for this to be fairly disruptive (or worse) to the board itself. My prediction is that we will have several regular board members leaving when they are outbid a few times.

If people aren't willing to openly outbid their friends it will lead to a dramatic decrease in price compared to a major auction house where someone might feel free to bid on a item with no concern for stepping on someone's toes.

Having net54 auctions might be fine. I can also see how it could be very bad. I'll support the board either way, but those are just a few of the many things that concern me with the idea of having full-blown auctions on the board.

My vote is for the idea Max had about the fact that anyone can already do an auction and set up their own rules (providing they don't conflict with the established net54 rules) in the BST.

-Ryan

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Posted By: barrysloate

Ryan made a few excellent points, and while I do believe we can have a workable auction on the board, I think bidders are going to need anonymity. Friends just won't bid against each other, and collectors who keep a low profile and want privacy won't participate. For a seller, that is just taking too many people out of the mix.

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Posted By: peter chao

Barry, Leon, Guys

How about if people register a second time under a different name. Is this pretty easy to do.

Peter

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Posted By: leon

I am still reeling from the bus marks on my back and don't care to get too involved. The only way this could have ever worked is to buy one of the auction s/w packages (pretty cheap) that is set up to do auctions....I have shelved the idea personally, though I am still getting private emails asking me to do it. Too many folks think this site will become too commercial. Even a thread linking to another site is too much. It's like reefer madness and I can see people jumping out of skyscrapers......The other thing is someone would have to devote a lot of time to it and not get anything out of it....Kind of a win-lose.....I would rather just be the dictator of the chatboard...

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Is it worse to trust the auctioneer with the information or to have all the public resentments, spoilers and similar problems that you've touched on? I think the latter would be far worse.

Of course, if everyone behaved like adults we wouldn't need to worry about any of this stuff.

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Posted By: peter chao

Adam,

"...if everybody acted like adults we wouldn't have to worry about..."

We are your friends here, you know that's not going to happen.

Peter