Show off your AMERICAN BEAUTY's....T205's and/or T206's

[tedzan]

This thread is devoted to the mysterious AMERICAN BEAUTY T206 cards or the very elusive T205 AMERICAN BEAUTY cards.
It is interesting, that the T206 AB cards were cut narrower; but, not the T205 AB cards.

Anyone here want to venture a theory as to why T206 AB's were cut narrower ? And, it was not because the AB cigarette
packs were thinner. They were the standard American Tobacco Co. 10-cigarette pack.


......


In 2007, I started running several T206 surveys of the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (frame), AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (no frame), an AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 cards.
In June 2010, I tabulated the data and posted this thread. I'm confident this is a complete listing of all the T206 cards with these AMERICAN BEAUTY backs.
Link ...... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=124927&page=5



.. Wider than usual AB 350 (frame) of which 190 subjects have been confirmed ........ Typical AB 350 (no frame) card of which 37 subjects have been confirmed ..

.



..................... AB 460 card of which 74 subjects have been confirmed ....................

.


Hey guys, I currently have 56 cards of the 74 in the AB 460 sub-set. Any help in finding the following 18 cards is greatly appreciated............

BESCHER..........................DOYLE (portrait)..................SEYMOUR (portrait)
BRIDWELL........................JORDAN (bat)......................SMITH (Brooklyn)
CAMNITZ..........................MARQUARD......... ...............TINKER (bat on)
COBB (bat off)...................McGRAW (cap)....................TINKER (bat off)
CONROY (bat)...................McQUILLAN (bat).................WAGNER (bat on right)
CRAWFORD (bat)...............SCHLEI (portrait).................WILTSE (portrait)


So let's see lots your T205 or T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY cards and tell us of some of your experiences in acquiring these elusive gems.


Thanks to many Net54er's who participated in these AB surveys. And especially Barry Arnold, Bill Brown, Art Martineau, Scot Reader, Frank Wakefield, and Brian Weisner.


TED Z

[Vintagecatcher]

Hi Ted,

American Beauty is my favorite back for the T205 and T206 sets. Unfortunately, I have just a few in my catcher collection.

I just have the one T205 American Beauty of Gabby Street which arrived today, and I have a Bresnahan (batting), Thomas, and Street (catching) in the T206 set. Bresnahan and Thomas have the framed 350 Subjects back, whereas, Gabby Street has a frameless 350 Subjects back.


Patrick

[Vintagecatcher]

Ted,

Here are the scans of the 2 other T206s with the framed 350 Subjects American Beauty backs.


Patrick

[Pat R]

Ted,

I only have two and the Mullin I got from you.

[Brian Van Horn]

My one and only which I recently picked up:

[Republicaninmass]

Might have overspent a bit, but a Green AB back of a HOF'er I couldnt resist

[sb1]

I believe you will see some T205's cut narrower as well, the Bresnahan above is notably narrower than the other T205 posted. I will post a few T205's tomorrow.

[big80s]

[dog*dirt]

I will post of few

[tedzan]

TED Z

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by big80s

Jeff

Your Eddie Collins is a real beauty; and, with a well-centered back. Thank you for posting it.

PSA has only two AB 350 cards graded (and I am assuming that one of them is yours). SGC has not graded any AB 350 cards
of Eddie Collins.

I have the 3rd one with an AB 350 back, it is barely Vg (not graded). I have looked for some time to upgrade this Collins card.
It is indeed another example of one of the tougher ones with the AB 350 back. Let's see if anyone else here has this Collins ?


TED Z

[atx840]

[E93]

Here is one not shown yet.
JimB

[jimonym]

Haven't shown this in a while. Not a card, but related.

[sdkammeyer]

BEAUTIFUL CARDS EVERYBODY!!

my keyboard is wet from drooling over this thread.

[t206blogcom]

My T206 American Beauties:

[mrvster]

love ab's! especially t206 ab no frames....460 my fav...

[E93]

Very cool!
JimB

Originally Posted by jimonym

Haven't shown this in a while. Not a card, but related.

[ChiSoxFan]

Great cards everyone.

I Do have a question about the T205 AB's. I know they are either Black or Green back, but are they similar to the T206 Hindu Brown and Red? Whereas a card has either of the colors, but not both?

Thanks,
ChiSoxFan

Originally Posted by ChiSoxFan

Great cards everyone.

I Do have a question about the T205 AB's. I know they are either Black or Green back, but are they similar to the T206 Hindu Brown and Red? Whereas a card has either of the colors, but not both?

Thanks,
ChiSoxFan

Yes that's correct

[NYHighlanderFan]

Many years ago, a long-time hobby fixture in Ohio told me this. American Beauty white borders came in "8" count packets and American Beauty gold borders came in "10" count packs.

My old friend who educated me on much of these cards was a pleasant old timer named Al Clement. Al was a fixture alongside Geoff Sindelar in the early days of the outstanding Cleveland area/Strongsville Holiday Inn spring show that Fusco Auctions handles now. Well, he had the entire set minus Honus and was extremely knowledgable in those sets and their packs.

[tedzan]

Shown above is the standard (10-cigarette) pack, circa 1910. It's my understanding that the narrower (8-cigarette) American Beauty packs were introduced
sometime in 1911. Hence, the Gold-Bordered cards (T205, T42, etc.) were more likely to be inserted in these packs; and, therefore cut thinner.

Methinks American Litho started cutting the T206's thinner in anticipation of the narrower AB packs. I have 105 T206's with AB backs....22 - AB 350 frame....
14 - AB 350 no frame....69 - AB 460.

Their widths vary all over the place. This Davy Jones is the "fattest" of my AB cards (exactly the width of a normal T206 card).


v.................... 1 7/16" .....................v





I don't claim to be an expert on cigarette packs, so any inputs regarding this topic are welcomed.


TED Z
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________
LOOKING for these 5 - T206 guys to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (74 cards)

CAMNITZ (hands over head)....DOYLE (portrait)....McGRAW (portrait-cap)
McQUILLAN (bat)....TINKER (bat off shoulder)
.

[tedzan]

Not many T205 black AMERICAN BEAUTY (AB) cards have been on display in this thread. However, many T205 Green AMERICAN BEAUTY cards have been posted.

T205 subjects with a black AB back are the link to "A-B-C-D" connection. A theory I posted several years ago. I have complete confidence in my A-B-C-D theory.
Check it out.... http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...t=t205+A-B-C-D




American Lithographic printed exactly 32 - T205 subjects with this A = B = C = D connection. The key factor in this A = B = C = D equation
is the Black AB back. Note that the T205 subjects with Green American Beauty backs will NOT be found with DRUM backs.


T205 A-B-C-D checklist......32 subjects

James Austin
John Bates
Beals Becker
George Bell
William Bergen
Russell Blackburne
Albert Bridwell
Mordecai Brown
Harold Chase (border on shirt)
Frank Corridon
Thomas Downey
Louis Evans
George Graham (blue signature)
Buck Herzog
Richard Hoblitzell
Miller Huggins
Jack Knight
A. Latham
Thomas Leach
John Lobert

Briscoe Lord
Patrick Moran
Frederick Olmstead
George Paskert
Fred Payne
Edward Phelps
John Quinn
Lewis Richie
David Shean
George Stone
Zach Wheat
Harry Wolter


The above 5 subjects in bold print have yet to be confirmed with a DRUM back. However, they already have been confirmed with the A - B - C backs.
Therefore, I expect these 5 subjects will eventually be discovered with the DRUM back.


Hey guys....let's see some more T205 black American Beauty cards.


TED Z
.

I had over 120 black and greens from grade A-6. Roughly 65% black and I believe around 80-85 uniques total. Wish I could upload pics. On the road traveling right now though.

[tedzan]

Hey Andrew

Would love to see some T205 AB's.


TED Z

[frohme]

NIce cards, everyone! (and thanks for starting, Ted

Some Pirates:

T206 - 350



and 460



T205 Black



and Green

[tedzan]

Thanks Mike

And, I like your array of AB T205 & T206 Pirates.


TED Z

[bn2cardz]

Received this yesterday.

[old-baseball]

[tedzan]

..



TED Z

[MVSNYC]

here's mine...

[Wite3]

So...here we are...some of my t205 America Beauty dups.

Joshua

[Brian Weisner]

Green AB Day:









Be well Brian

[pete zouras]

[tedzan]

Only 29 subjects from the 60 subjects in the 350/460 Series are confirmed printed with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 backs.
On display here are 12 of these cards.







....



.








TED Z

[Vintagecatcher]

Ted,

Let's here the rest of the story regarding Jumpin" Joe and Norma Jean.


Patrick

[tedzan]

Only 37 subjects are confirmed printed with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (no frame) backs. On display here are 6 of these cards.




..








TED Z

[Vegas-guy]

My only AB

[tedzan]

TED Z

[tedzan]

TED Z

[Jantz]

Ted

Here is one of the few ABs that I own. I bought this one from your buddy Don F. when I was in Cooperstown. Nice wide borders for an AB 350 framed.


Jantz

[tedzan]

a








TED Z

[tedzan]

Hey guys,

There are 74 subjects that were printed with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 (AB 460) advertisement. Currently, I
have 57 cards, so if you have any of the 17 cards listed here with AB 460 backs that you are willing to sell (or
trade), I would really appreciate it. Any condition (ungraded or graded) will do. Please contact me via email.....

tedzan11@comcast.net


BESCHER (hands above head)
BRIDWELL (portrait-cap)
CAMNITZ (hands above head)
COBB (bat off shoulder)
CRAWFORD (bat)
DOYLE (portrait)
JORDAN (bat)
MARQUARD (follow thru)
McGRAW (portrait-cap)
McQUILLAN (bat)
SCHLEI (portrait)
SEYMOUR (portrait)
SMITH (Brooklyn)
TINKER (bat off shoulder )
TINKER (bat on shoulder )
WAGNER (bat on right shoulder)
WILTSE (portrait-cap)


I am especially grateful to Drew Apoldite, Barry Arnold, Bill Brown, Craig Diamond, Joe Drouillard, Todd Marcum,
Frank Wakefield, and Brian Weisner for providing me some of the AB 460 cards in my set, since I started this
adventure 7-years ago.


TED Z

[tedzan]

I acquired a few more cards for my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set since this thread was last posted. The most significant card is Mr. Cobb.








I still need these 13 cards to complete the AB 460 sub-set (comprising of 74 cards). Any help is really appreciated. Email.... tedzan11@comcast.net

BESCHER..........................McGRAW (cap)
BRIDWELL.........................McQUILLAN (bat) (Brooklyn)
CAMNITZ..........................SCHLEI (portrait)
CRAWFORD (bat)...............SEYMOUR (portrait)
DOYLE (portrait)................SMITH (Brooklyn)
JORDAN (bat)....................TINKER (bat off)
MARQUARD)..................... WAGNER (bat on right)
.......................................WILTSE (portrait-cap)


Hey guys......
This Cobb (front & back) is better looking than these fuzzy scans. My scanner produces great scans of RAW cards and PSA graded cards; but, the scans of SGC graded cards
are usually fuzzy. Does anyone else here have this same problem ?



TED Z

[sdkammeyer]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I acquired a few more cards for my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set since this thread was last posted. The most significant card is Mr. Cobb.





I still need these 15 cards to complete the AB 460 sub-set (comprising of 75 cards). Any help is really appreciated. Email.... tedzan11@comcast.net

AMES (hands above head)...............................DOYLE (portrait)...............................SCHLEI (portrait)
BESCHER (hands above head)..........................JORDAN (bat)...................................SEYMOUR (portrait)
BRIDWELL (portrait-cap).................................MARQUARD (follow thru).....................TINKER (bat off shoulder)
CAMNITZ (hands above head)..........................McGRAW (portrait-cap)......................WAGNER (bat on right shoulder)
CRAWFORD (bat)...........................................Mc QUILLAN (bat)..............................WILTSE (portrait-cap)


Hey guys......
This Cobb (front & back) is better looking than these fuzzy scans. My scanner produces great scans of RAW cards and PSA graded cards; but, the scans of SGC graded cards
are usually fuzzy. Does anyone else here have this same problem ?



TED Z

HOLY HELL .... YOU WIN
that Cobb is beautiful. If you ever sell it PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let me know.
Also, no I dont have the scanner problem and I am not sure why you are having it .... that is weird. Have you tried playing around with your scanner settings? That is a strange thing right there.

Anyways .... the Cobb is wonderful Ted. Thank you so much for sharing.

[tedzan]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the compliments regarding the AB 460 Cobb. I have to thank Jay Miller, who remembered me regarding this AB 460 Cobb.


Speaking about AB 460 cards, since I bumped up this thread, I have received two emails regarding deals on acquiring AB 460 cards
for my sub-set.

As Jackie Gleason (The Honeymooners) used to say....Net54er's...."you're the greatest" !

I really appreciate all your responses,


TED Z

[Marslife]

that Cobb is NICE!

here is my 460 with a couple other factory 42's - The birds!

Cliff

Ab backs 1.jpg
Ab backs 2.jpg

[atx840]

What a card Ted!!!

CCD sensor based scanners work best for slabbed cards (depth of field). It's likely yours has a CMOS type sensor (great for raw and shallow depth items)

[tedzan]

Chris

My scanner is a relatively inexpensive one; therefore, you are probably right that it is CMOS based. The scanners with CCD technology are more expensive.

In any event, what I don't understand is that I get clear scans of PSA graded cards....but, the SGC graded cards are usually fuzzy. What is the difference
between the plastic used by PSA vs. the plastic that SGC uses ?


TED Z

[atx840]

Great card Ian