Looking for opinions on a new strictly vintage card show

[parkplace33]

I was thinking about the Mid-Atlantic Get Together + Trade Event (next weekend!) and was curious to get everyone’s take on a new national strictly vintage card show.

I know the Strongsville show in April is vintage, but that is more a regional show. I was thinking bigger, closer to a major city and airport. Also, just a show for dealers/collectors/traders, no AHs, grading companies or people signing autographs set up.

Thoughts? Feasibility? Would you attend? What would you want? Love to get opinions on this topic

[parkplace33]

I forgot to add this but I am kinda surprised this hasn't already happened, especially with the explosion of the hobby in the last few years.

[x2drich2000]

Honestly, while it sounds great conceptually, I would seriously have doubts on the feasibility. Keep in mind the purpose of promoting a show, and it is a lot more work than most would think, is to make money for the promoter. As much as this group wants to think we're bigger, the vintage/prewar market is a very small part of the hobby. Modern is an exponentially bigger market. If you go to most shows today it feels like they are 90+% modern. Even the larger regional shows are overwhelmingly dominated by modern. After that you're taking away the AH, autographs, and graders, all of which bring additional collectors in the door. I wouldn't be surprised if more collectors go to shows today just to get stuff graded than go to collect vintage. All that to say, I don't think you would have the volume of dealers or collectors to make a new vintage only show work. Personally, I would have trouble driving more than a couple hours. The VA gathering is about 3.5 hours from me and I couldn't convince myself it was worth going. I certainly wouldn't fly.

[Rich Klein]

It is feasible, especially in the megalopolis, with some caveats. One is I would ask that at least 50 percent of items displayed be vintage. You need to have a smaller room and understand you will not draw a big crowd.

It's not impossible but good luck. Maybe the midwest it would work as well but not the South, Southwest or West would this show work.

You don't need the grading companies there if you have some group submitters to handle that.

Rich

[Johnny630]

This would be great! No AH's, No Grading Companies, and no Signers.

I'm game :-) what a refreshing idea!

[Jewish-collector]

Washington, DC sportscaster Phil Wood used to promote or be involved in a very successful vintage sports memorabilia & equipment show every year in the late 1990's & into the 2000's. It was held in the Baltimore-Washington, DC area. About 40 or so dealers selling programs, pennants, uniforms, tickets, bats, balls, gloves, signs, memorabilia, publications, etc,... There were no autograph signers, no AHs, no grading companies, etc,... - just dealer tables. I really miss that show.

[ValKehl]

I'd love for there to be an annual, 2-day, Pre-War National. Nothing later than 1945 allowed. I would include TPGs and auction houses. The show site could/should be rotated annually. This show would not require a super large, costly venue. I'm pretty sure all the hard-core pre-War collectors would attend, along with a reasonable number of non-hard-core collectors. I think March would be the best time to hold this show.

[Huck]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Washington, DC sportscaster Phil Wood used to promote or be involved in a very successful vintage sports memorabilia & equipment show every year in the late 1990's & into the 2000's. It was held in the Baltimore-Washington, DC area. About 40 or so dealers selling programs, pennants, uniforms, tickets, bats, balls, gloves, signs, memorabilia, publications, etc,... There were no autograph signers, no AHs, no grading companies, etc,... - just dealer tables. I really miss that show.

I have lived in the DMV for decades and never heard of that show. Where was the show held?

The few times that I have attended the Philly Show (in years past aka as the mini national) there seemed to be more vintage and memorabilia on tables than newer issues. I would guess that quite a few collectors start ripping new wax and eventually move on to older material. I don't have a problem with an autograph guest or two. The Philly Show used to have one free autograph guest per day.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

I'd love for there to be an annual, 2-day, Pre-War National. Nothing later than 1945 allowed. I would include TPGs and auction houses. The show site could/should be rotated annually. This show would not require a super large, costly venue. I'm pretty sure all the hard-core pre-War collectors would attend, along with a reasonable number of non-hard-core collectors. I think March would be the best time to hold this show.

+1

[ClementeFanOh]

Parkplace- you are, in fact, describing Strongsville to a T; however, you've
either not attended before, or are making false assumptions. The vast
majority of Strongsville is indeed vintage and older. It is also very close to
an airport (can't recall exactly, maybe 15 minutes??). Finally, the dealer list
is not "regional". The 2023 lineup features dealers from Texas, California,
NY, Maryland, N Car, New Jersey, Conn, Colorado, Iowa, and Ontario,
Canada. There is this guy named Rickey Henderson signing on Saturday of
the show: however, in my appearances at Strongsville the autograph
seekers have not once been a distraction. There are tons of like- minded
collectors in too small a space, it is one of the last vestiges of the nostalgic
shows I think you are pining for. Give it a try, great show that got that way
due to decades of excellence. Trent King

[gonefishin]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Honestly, while it sounds great conceptually, I would seriously have doubts on the feasibility. Keep in mind the purpose of promoting a show, and it is a lot more work than most would think, is to make money for the promoter. As much as this group wants to think we're bigger, the vintage/prewar market is a very small part of the hobby. Modern is an exponentially bigger market. If you go to most shows today it feels like they are 90+% modern. Even the larger regional shows are overwhelmingly dominated by modern. After that you're taking away the AH, autographs, and graders, all of which bring additional collectors in the door. I wouldn't be surprised if more collectors go to shows today just to get stuff graded than go to collect vintage. All that to say, I don't think you would have the volume of dealers or collectors to make a new vintage only show work. Personally, I would have trouble driving more than a couple hours. The VA gathering is about 3.5 hours from me and I couldn't convince myself it was worth going. I certainly wouldn't fly.

I 100% agree.

I could be wrong, but it appears to me that a lot of the pre-war collectors buy and sell amongst themselves more than anything else.

I don't really understand what you would be accomplishing that couldn't be achieved at a show that is probably making a profit already.

Maybe you should look at a "Pre-War Reunion" gathering rather than a show. Costs would be significantly less, and maybe you accomplish a lot of what you are looking for. Collectors could mingle, have a meal, wheel and deal, whatever.

Just a thought.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I was thinking about the Mid-Atlantic Get Together + Trade Event (next weekend!) and was curious to get everyone’s take on a new national strictly vintage card show.

I know the Strongsville show in April is vintage, but that is more a regional show. I was thinking bigger, closer to a major city and airport. Also, just a show for dealers/collectors/traders, no AHs, grading companies or people signing autographs set up.

Thoughts? Feasibility? Would you attend? What would you want? Love to get opinions on this topic

Based on what some of the others have stated, a strictly vintage show may not be able to draw as big a crowd as you are thinking, and something like the Strongsville show may just be it.

By the way, the Strongsville show is literally just a couple freeway exits down from the IX Center where they hold the National when in Cleveland, and the IX Center is literally right at the end of the Hopkins Airport runway. It is only about a 10 minute drive from the one venue to the other, and that probably includes the lights/stop signs as well. How much closer do you need it? I know Cleveland isn't a big super city like Chicago, NY, or Philly, but it isn't nothing either. You just need a car to get around, and unlike the other big cities, Cleveland doesn't have the traffic like any of them. Aside from about a half-hour or so delay at the heart of rush hour, you can pretty much go anywhere you want around the entire city/county pretty darn fast on the local freeway system. Just have to know what you want to see/do, and GPS to know where you're going then. There's a large shopping mall and big retail district just on the other side of the freeway from where the Strongsville show is held at the Best Western, like less than a mile away, so a bunch of restaurants and such are right there without having to go all the way downtown if you don't want to. And yes, I said a large shopping mall. One of the few actual malls still left in the Cleveland area. Bring the wife and let her go have fun shopping while you browse the show.

The only thing I don't know for sure is since a new show owner/promoter has now taken over from Paul Fusco, will he continue to keep the show as strictly vintage, or will he expand and start pushing the modern stuff, TGCs, and whatever else draws people, in the future. That remains to be seen.

Too bad they don't have shows like the old Robert Morse College shows still around. That was a great one to attend, usually with a lot of vintage stuff as well.

[Exhibitman]

it is a great idea but the financial barriers to entry are significant. We (two friends and me) tried it in Los Angeles pre-COVID and lasted three shows. The biggest challenge is getting a reasonably-priced venue. Paying too much for the facility will kill you before you start because your administrative overhead costs are staggering: venue, business license fees, insurance, equipment and material rental, advertising, etc. I lost money every show despite basically selling out. it is also a ton of work.

[Rhotchkiss]

Our hope is that the get together we are putting on outside of DC can effectively become this, except it will never be a “show”, but more of a place for like-minded prewar/vintage to get together and to see what happens. We will see how it goes this year and maybe it will grow. Neither Andrew nor I have any profit motive - in fact we are paying for it all (not food) and not collecting a dime. So let’s see how it shakes out and grow from there

[Nugen]

Originally Posted by Huck

I have lived in the DMV for decades and never heard of that show. Where was the show held?

The few times that I have attended the Philly Show (in years past aka as the mini national) there seemed to be more vintage and memorabilia on tables than newer issues. I would guess that quite a few collectors start ripping new wax and eventually move on to older material. I don't have a problem with an autograph guest or two. The Philly Show used to have one free autograph guest per day.

The show was held at the Capitol Hill Holiday Inn in the late 90’s. There were signers. I got Warren Spahn’s auto at one show. There were dealers with amazing displays of vintage flannels.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Our hope is that the get together we are putting on outside of DC can effectively become this, except it will never be a “show”, but more of a place for like-minded prewar/vintage to get together and to see what happens. We will see how it goes this year and maybe it will grow. Neither Andrew nor I have any profit motive - in fact we are paying for it all (not good) and not collecting a dime. So let’s see how it shakes out and grow from there

While I won't be able to attend, I just want to say that I'm happy there are people in the hobby who are both willing and able to create an event like that.

The stamp club I'm in does a tiny show, and while it's not expensive, there's a lot of work promoting it. Just sticking labels and stamps on the postcards we mail out takes more time that anyone would imagine.
(Church hall, I forget exactly, but costs for the whole show all in are under $1000 and we make maybe a couple hundred.)

[Jewish-collector]

Originally Posted by Huck

I have lived in the DMV for decades and never heard of that show. Where was the show held?

The few times that I have attended the Philly Show (in years past aka as the mini national) there seemed to be more vintage and memorabilia on tables than newer issues. I would guess that quite a few collectors start ripping new wax and eventually move on to older material. I don't have a problem with an autograph guest or two. The Philly Show used to have one free autograph guest per day.

They were in different areas of the DC area. As mentioned above, one was at the Capitol Hill Holiday Inn. Another was in Bethesda. Can't remember the other locations.

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Our hope is that the get together we are putting on outside of DC can effectively become this, except it will never be a “show”, but more of a place for like-minded prewar/vintage to get together and to see what happens. We will see how it goes this year and maybe it will grow. Neither Andrew nor I have any profit motive - in fact we are paying for it all (not good) and not collecting a dime. So let’s see how it shakes out and grow from there

What is this gathering you speak of?

I wen to the last Philly show and IMO there was a ton of modern, I found one dealer with a handful of Cracker Jacks and that was it.

I will see how the March show is as I have expanded to collecting a few more sets but certainly WAY more modern and pre war was the bottom of the barrel as there was a lot of 50s-70s stuff.

James G

[Rhotchkiss]

James, hear the link to the thread. We have been talking about for months. I hope you can attend

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=326892