OT - Example of why card collecting is dying re: Topps

[bigfanNY]

My oldest is going to be 30 in a few Months and my youngest 28.In the past 2 years I have met a number of their friends and ALL of them say they collected as kids and enjoyed the experience. Everyone always asks if their 89 Ken Griffey Jr. card still has Value or their 85 Kirby or 84 Mattingly. They like us chased iconic cards that still hold special memories for them. I gave one a PSA 8 Griffey and he was ecstatic. I saw him a few Months later and he said to me like any good dealer the first one is always free (lol). He had gone to Ebay and bought a few more cards and even attended a local show.
I have no idea what the future holds but my experience tells me that Baseball cards continue to bring joy to people.

OT: Even without my Yankees I am looking forward to an exciting World Series.

Jonathan

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

It's no longer a mainstream hobby and hasn't been for over 20 years. It has a niche and within that niche there are many additional niches. As long as those niches are at least maintaining their base it seems unlikely that the hobby will just one day collapse.

I think you have a niche for using the word niche

[yanks12025]

I can't believe people are paying $175 for a murphy signed bat. That is just too funny. The guy is at best an average player who had two good playoff series, some stupid team will pay him lots of money for average baseball(hopefully not the yankees)

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

I can't believe people are paying $175 for a murphy signed bat. That is just too funny. The guy is at best an average player who had two good playoff series, some stupid team will pay him lots of money for average baseball(hopefully not the yankees)

He's actually an above average player who has had an exceptional season and a monster postseason. He is one of the best hit to contact batters in the league and led the major in both fewest K's and AB per K this season. While his HR numbers have not been spectacular, he has averaged almost 40 doubles a season the past four years and as a second baseman he would be an upgrade for probably 24-26 of the 30 franchises (Stephen Drew included). That's not exactly average.

[rjackson44]

Steve knows his numbers

[Exhibitman]

Various points:

Let's give the vintage card snobbery a break. Most of the modern collectors out there are not 'day traders' looking only to make money. There are many enthusiastic, committed, passionate collectors who like modern cards every bit as much as some of us like T206s [which I personally find boring, but I digress]. Having a pissy, superior attitude towards them isn't the way to make the vintage side of the hobby attractive.

None of us know what the next 5-10-20 years hold. We don't need to know that in order to make some pretty accurate assumptions about the hobby as a whole. The times will vary, technology will change, but the basic habits of people don't change. Card collecting took off in the 1970s and has been a big hobby activity ever since. It used to be shows and stores and collecting clubs, now it is eBay and internet auctions and chat boards, but the basic activity remains the same: chasing cards, socializing, and slinging $hit with friends.

The doom and gloom always seems to focus on some past peak moment for the hobby: the 1991 National, the insane prices some cards fetched, the billion dollar modern market, etc. The peak of the hobby was a fad, it wasn't sustainable, and it wasn't what any of the experienced hands at the time were into it for, so citing that peak as evidence the hobby is dying isn't realistic. As long as collectors collect stuff and teams play sports there are going to be collectors collecting sports cards. We may not see 100,000 people at a National clogging the aisles for goodie bags--I hope--but 30,000-40,000 hardcore collectors seems to be sustainable.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Various points:

Let's give the vintage card snobbery a break. Most of the modern collectors out there are not 'day traders' looking only to make money. There are many enthusiastic, committed, passionate collectors who like modern cards every bit as much as some of us like T206s [which I personally find boring, but I digress]. Having a pissy, superior attitude towards them isn't the way to make the vintage side of the hobby attractive.

None of us know what the next 5-10-20 years hold. We don't need to know that in order to make some pretty accurate assumptions about the hobby as a whole. The times will vary, technology will change, but the basic habits of people don't change. Card collecting took off in the 1970s and has been a big hobby activity ever since. It used to be shows and stores and collecting clubs, now it is eBay and internet auctions and chat boards, but the basic activity remains the same: chasing cards, socializing, and slinging $hit with friends.

The doom and gloom always seems to focus on some past peak moment for the hobby: the 1991 National, the insane prices some cards fetched, the billion dollar modern market, etc. The peak of the hobby was a fad, it wasn't sustainable, and it wasn't what any of the experienced hands at the time were into it for, so citing that peak as evidence the hobby is dying isn't realistic. As long as collectors collect stuff and teams play sports there are going to be collectors collecting sports cards. We may not see 100,000 people at a National clogging the aisles for goodie bags--I hope--but 30,000-40,000 hardcore collectors seems to be sustainable.

Adam, I completely agree.

[iowadoc77]

I have 2 boys, age 10 and 13. We hit our 3rd national in a row this year. It is the highlight of the year for them. They love cards and they have a dozen friends that they trade with. They fill up our porch with their cards, telling stories, trading, etc. they are more into football cards and love to open new and shiny and we have a great LCS in Des Moines that we go to and see kids there all the time. Their 2 favorite pickups from the national- a Mike Ditka rookie PSA 5 (13 year old Bears fan) and a 1965 Len Dawson tall boy (10 year old Chiefs fan). They were ecstatic about the vintage cards. I am a baseball guy and they were excited to look at the cards I wanted to see and helped me pick up some nice T206s and a T227 Cobb. They were thrilled to get Jan Stenerund and Frank Whites autographs.
All of these things are just a snapshot from our experience but I am hopeful. It's a great hobby and I hope it stays around.
Will be a bummer to miss the National this next year. We will have to find another show to go to.

[Orioles1954]

Those who are speculating that the hobby is dead, I encourage you this Halloween to give out modern "junk" cards to neighborhood kids and see their reaction....it is usually gold!

[steve B]

I collect pretty much everything, as well as stuff that's not cards.

My daughters have been interested off and on in cards, not a surprise since they're 3 and 5. I gave my oldest some of the security inserts from one of the modern sets a couple years ago. I figured they'd make good drawing materials. After a few minutes she came back and said " daddy I have a card for you" I figured she had found either a card that got away on one of her adventures in making me put the box I left in reach back into number order, Or had one of the cards I'd given her. Yes, they get all the off condition 80's stuff too!

But what she had was a card she'd drawn for me. Not bad, it had a border, and a figure with a bat, sort of. and even a scribble that might have been the team name. It also had a few creases and a stain.

Still, it went straight into a toploader

She collects stamps too, currently red and green ones she puts into the book I made her. They're organized in a checkerboard pattern, making a surprisingly nice collection.

She hasn't asked for sports cards, but has asked for a few packs of my little pony cards, and frozen stickers.


The earliest mention I can find of collecting stamps being a dying hobby was from around 1892, and complaints about "unnecessary modern junk " go back at least as far as 1869! considering that's only 29 years after the first stamp was made I figure the card hobby is doing pretty well.

Steve B

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by kengoldin

I need to defend Topps here
I was called at my home by the reporter at 9pm at night last night.
After getting the call and doing an interview, I contacted a vp of Topps at home.
I was informed that their e commerce site processes sales for the MBPAA. The item was sold out after his home runs. It is not even a "Topps item".
I am confident they are going to find a Murphy bat and fulfill the order.

Nope. Not going to let them off the hook. Doesn't really matter where the screw-up was - Topps had the item on their site. They said it was in stock and took the $$. That makes any problems their responsibility. Period.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Nope. Not going to let them off the hook. Doesn't really matter where the screw-up was - Topps had the item on their site. They said it was in stock and took the $$. That makes any problems their responsibility. Period.

Being a small business owner, I believe that the measure of a business is not if a mistake is made, because mistakes are made, but in the reaction to that mistake. Ultimately that is a testament to the quality and integrity of the business. Topps made a mistake. If they follow through and make it right, then I respect them for that. If not, then the converse is true.

[packs]

I can buy that it was a simple mistake IF the circumstances weren't as they are. The kid had a guarantee that the bat would be delivered by a certain date. That's very specific and goes beyond whether or not something is in stock, because if it's not, then why the guarantee?

Secondly, I sympathize with the father because you can't help but see the offer to remedy the situation as an upsell. 25 % off a $500 Mike Trout bat.

[Laxcat]

Agreed. Sorry we sold that Impala that you preordered but we will give you 25% off this corvette.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

Being a small business owner, I believe that the measure of a business is not if a mistake is made, because mistakes are made, but in the reaction to that mistake. Ultimately that is a testament to the quality and integrity of the business. Topps made a mistake. If they follow through and make it right, then I respect them for that. If not, then the converse is true.

As another small business owner I agree.^^^

On a positive note I hand out snack size zip lock bags with 10 cards in it to each kid that gets drug along on Saturday mornings to my produce stand. I buy modern GU/Auto lots and include 1 along with some Twins cards and HOFer and star players from the junk era. Only had a few kids say they didn't want them and had a few adults ask for 1.

[obcbobd]

I think the next 10-20 years the vintage card market will be very healthy. As mentioned earlier, in the 70's there was a huge increase in vintage card collectors which resulted in increased prices based on simple supply and demand principles. As that generation, including myself, dies off (tried to come up with a nicer way of saying that, but ...) there may not be an equal number of people taking their place, which could result in a flattening or even decrease in prices. However, I think the hobby will still go on and be relatively strong as long as Baseball is popular, and looking at attendance figures I do not think it is going away anytime soon.

So if you are 20 and just beginning to enter the hobby, I would not advise buying cards as an investment to fund your retirement. Treat it as a hobby and by the time you retire you may be able to pick up some nicer cards relatively cheap, at least by today's standards.

[packs]

I think we'll some massive sell offs all at the same time in the next decade and that will drive prices way down, though maybe only temporarily. I don't think after a big time collector dies that their family will pass everything down. If you've got a T206 set and you're 65 today, in the next 10 years that set will likely hit the market. And there are a lot of 65 year olds with T206 sets.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Those who are speculating that the hobby is dead, I encourage you this Halloween to give out modern "junk" cards to neighborhood kids and see their reaction....it is usually gold!

Great idea!