UPDATED list of Victory cards....show/tell us of these very rare T214 cards ?

[tedzan]

Approx. a year ago Jim Rivera acknowledged a Red Cobb with a VICTORY Tobacco back. Has
anyone seen one since ? Furthermore, how often has anyone see any of the T214's ? ?

American Litho's Six Super-Prints (Chance, two Chase's, Cobb, Evers, and Matty) have been
included in virtually every white-bordered set (T206-T215)....but, all are not in the T214 set.

Frank Chance has not been confirmed (and most likely does not exist since his career ended
in April 1914. The T214 cards were issued during the 1914-1915 baseball season.

Christy Mathewson has not been confirmed....but, very likely was issued.


So, please show or tell us of any T214 cards....if you have them, or have seen them.



TED Z

[Mikehealer]

I've seen a Meyers portrait, in fact a member owns it. Maybe he will post a scan.

[Leon]

Here is one from the recent REA auction...

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/...x?itemid=13095

and a few I own....

[barrysloate]

That T214 Cobb in REA is overgraded...that's a 20.

[cfc1909]

I know there was a Victory Cobb in SCP and I guess the REA example is the same one but it does say there are 2 known.

here is my example

SmithVictory.jpgSmithVictoryb.jpg

[E93]

I know of one other example (in addition to the REA example) and have seen a scan of it, so there are two confirmed.
JimB

[fkw]

In about 1999 I won a T214 Tinker on eBay that was advertised as a "T206", Got it for about $250
Funny thing was that it was the same exact card that is pictured in Lew Lipset's Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards, but the seller at the time had no clue what it was.

Got it graded at a show (PSA-2) and Sold it along time ago for $1K

Wish I still had it

[sb1]

the only 1 I have left. One of the nicest 40's you will find.

[tedzan]

Nice start guys....maybe we'll get lucky and find T214 (or two) that hasn't been catalogued.

The back says "90 Designs", but only 60 (or so) are listed in the catalogue.

Let's see some more of these toughies.


TED Z

[Brian Weisner]

Hi Ted,
I have an uncatalogued card..... But its not as pretty as most of the ones listed.... Be well Brian

PS My scanner is busted or I'd probably post it....

[tedzan]

Don't need a scan ole buddy, tell us who it is ?


TED Z

[cfc1909]

I just searched for the other Cobb and I could only find the same example from REA auctioned off by Huggins-I thought SCP auctioned it or maybe that was another.
Same example auctioned-2/5/09 by Huggins and 5/1/10 by REA

[Brian Weisner]

Hi Jim,
There is another.....
Be well Brian

PS I will probably pull my copy out soon.... But to damn tired tonight.

[ValKehl]

From when Gandil played for Washington.

[ValKehl]

Mike - One of these days you are going to trade me something nice for this card - right?!

[ValKehl]

Germany Schaefer in a Washington uniform.

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Mike - One of these days you are going to trade me something nice for this card - right?!

Hi Val
I've got to get something nice first. Thanks for showing.

[kcohen]

one.

[tedzan]

I can't find anything that identifies Schaefer with K.C. (Fed. Lge.). All sources show that he went from Washington
to the Newark Peppers. Does anyone have info, otherwise ?

Incidently, Germany Schaefer was quite a character, a Detroit sportswriter once described him......

"Germany Schaefer was the soul of baseball itself, with all its sorrows and joys, the born troubadour of the game."


Hey guys, keep those Victory scans rolling in....condition is not is not important....as knowledge is.


TED Z

[tedzan]

Still looking for some uncatalogued T214 cards. The Victory backs say "90 Designs"....but, only 60 subjects
have been confirmed.

I know how really tough these T214's are; however, there must be more out there....somewhere ?


TED Z

[yawie99]

[canjond]

A companion piece...

[cfc1909]

thanks for helping us out in this thread-this is a tough one

[MMarvelli]

I bought the Tinker from Frank (Lipset's T214 photo in the Encyclopedia) in 2000. Yes, Frank, $1000. I do cherish it.

[tedzan]

The following lists the known T214 cards and their teams. I think my team identification is accurate.
The Bender was issued in 1915, suggesting that these cards were issued in 2 series....1914 & 1915.

Ames (Cinci)
Bender (Baltimore Fed.)............1915
Bresnahan (Chicago Nat'l.)
Bridwell (St Louis Fed.)
Camnitz (Pittsburgh Fed.)
Chase (Buffalo Fed., portrait)
Chase (Buffalo Fed., throwing)
Cobb (Detroit, red portrait)
Crandall (St Louis Fed.)
Cree (New York Amer.)
Demmitt (Chicago Amer.)
Devore
Donlin (bat .300)
Doolan (Baltimore Fed.)
Downey (Buffalo Fed.)
Larry Doyle (New York Nat'l.)
Elberfeld (Brooklyn)
Evers (Boston Nat'l.)
Ford (Buffalo Fed.)
Fromme (New York Nat'l.)
Gandil (Washington)
Geyer (St Louis Nat'l.)
Griffith (Washington)
Groom (St Louis Nat'l.)
Herzog (Cinci)
Jennings (Detroit, one hand)
Johnson (Washington, pitching)
Kelley (New York Amer.)
Konetchy (Pittsburgh Fed.)
Lajoie (Philadelphia Amer.)
Lennox (Pittsburgh Fed.)
Magee (Boston Nat'l.)
Marquard (New York Nat'l.)
McGraw (New York Nat'l.)
McLean (New York Nat'l.)
McQuillan (Pittsburgh Nat'l.)
Meyers (New York Nat'l.)
Mullin (Newark Fed.)
Murray (New York Nat'l.)
Needham (Chicago Nat'l.)
Oakes (Pittsburgh Fed.)
Paskert (Philadelphia Nat'l.)
Quinn (Baltimore Fed.)
Rucker (Brooklyn)
Schaefer (K. C. Fed.)
Schulte (Chicago Nat'l.)
F. Smith (Baltimore Fed.)
Speaker (Boston Amer.)
Stovall (K. C. Fed.)
Summers
Bill Sweeney (Chicago Nat'l.)
Jeff Sweeney (New York Amer.)
Thomas (Philadelphia Amer.)
Tinker (Chicago Fed.)
Heine Wagner
Wheat (Brooklyn)
Wilhelm (Brooklyn)
Wiltse (Jersey City)


There are more of these T214's out there; but, they are so rare that they have not been confirmed.
Any help in confirming new T214 cards is greatly appreciated.

Any corrections of team identification is also appreciated.


TED Z

[Brian Weisner]

Hi Ted,
Add Larry McLean/NY Nat..... UNC...

Be well Brian

[tedzan]

Thanks for the McLean input. It's certainly a new one, and that makes it the 58th confirmed T214 card.

Take care good friend.


TED Z

[tedzan]

A Net54 reader has emailed me reporting a Myers (fielding) with a Victory back.

This card will make it 59 confirmed T214's. This is certainly a far cry from the "90 Designs"
noted on the backs of these cards.


TED Z

[cfc1909]

That is really cool-one thats not on the checklist...

[tedzan]

I expect at least one more T214 to surface and that will give us the magic number of 60 cards.


TED Z

[tedzan]

The following lists the known T214 cards and their teams. I think my team identification is accurate.
Note.......Bender was acquired by Baltimore (Dec 1914), suggesting that these cards were issued in
two series....1914 and 1915.

Ames (Cinci)
Bender (Baltimore Fed.)............1915
Bresnahan (Chicago Nat'l.)
Bridwell (St Louis Fed.)
Camnitz (Pittsburgh Fed.)
Chase (portrait, Buffalo Fed.)
Chase (throwing, Buffalo Fed.)
Cobb (Detroit, red portrait)
Crandall (St Louis Fed.)
Cree (New York Amer.)
Demmitt (Chicago Amer.)
Devore
Donlin (bat .300)
Doolan (Baltimore Fed.)
Downey (Buffalo Fed.)
Larry Doyle (New York Nat'l.)
Elberfeld (Brooklyn)
Evers (Boston Nat'l.)
Ford (Buffalo Fed.)
Fromme (New York Nat'l.)
Gandil (Washington)
Geyer (St Louis Nat'l.)
Griffith (Washington)
Groom (St Louis Nat'l.)
Herzog (Cinci)
Jennings (Detroit, one hand)
Johnson (Washington, pitching)
Kelley (New York Amer.)
Konetchy (Pittsburgh Fed.)
Lajoie (Philadelphia Amer.)
Lennox (Pittsburgh Fed.)
Magee (Boston Nat'l.)
Marquard (New York Nat'l.)
McGraw (New York Nat'l.)
McLean (New York Nat'l.)
McQuillan (Pittsburgh Nat'l.)
Meyers (portrait, New York Nat'l.)
Myers (fielding, New York Nat'l.)
Mullin (Newark Fed.)
Murray (New York Nat'l.)
Needham (Chicago Nat'l.)
Oakes (Pittsburgh Fed.)
Paskert (Philadelphia Nat'l.)
Quinn (Baltimore Fed.)
Rucker (Brooklyn)
Schaefer (K. C. Fed.)
Schulte (Chicago Nat'l.)
F. Smith (Baltimore Fed.)
Speaker (Boston Amer.)
Stovall (K. C. Fed.)
Summers
Bill Sweeney (Chicago Nat'l.)
Jeff Sweeney (New York Amer.)
Thomas (Philadelphia Amer.)
Tinker (Chicago Fed.)
Heine Wagner
Wheat (Brooklyn)
Wilhelm (Brooklyn)
Wiltse (Jersey City)


We have 59 confirmed T214's....and, I'm looking for the 60th card....or perhaps more.

Any help in confirming new T214 cards is greatly appreciated.

Any corrections of team identification is also appreciated.


TED Z

[tedzan]

As noted on my list, I do not have team affiliates for Devore, Summers or Wagner. If any
one has any of these cards, or knows of their teams, please chime in and identify them.

Thanks,

TED Z

[Mikehealer]

Hi Ted, one card not on your list that is in the 2010 Standard Catalog is Meyers catching. I don't know if it exists or not.

Also there are two Jennings cards-one hand showing and both hands. Neither of these were cataloged in Lipset's Encyclopedia. The 2010 SCD just shows Jennings(it doesn't designate which pose). Leon posted a scan of the one hand and there has been a both hands on Ebay since it was pulled from the pack.

There are also two Tinker cards-bat off and bat on. The bat off is in Lipset's Encyclopedia and designated as such. The SCD shows just one Tinker(it doesn't designate pose, but assume it's the bat off).

I know this is an old thread, but thought it would be ok to update this one.

[tedzan]

Thanks Mike and Bruce for the new inputs.....the list has been updated.




The following lists the known T214 cards and their teams. I think my team identification is accurate.
Note.......Bender was acquired by Baltimore (Dec 1914), suggesting that these cards were issued in
two series....1914 and 1915.

Ames (Cinci)
Bender (Baltimore Fed.)............1915
Bresnahan (Chicago Nat'l.)
Bridwell (St Louis Fed.)
Camnitz (Pittsburgh Fed.)
Chase (portrait, Buffalo Fed.)
Chase (throwing, Buffalo Fed.)
Cobb (Detroit, red portrait)
Crandall (St Louis Fed.)
Cree (New York Amer.)
Demmitt (Chicago Amer.)
Devore (Chillicothe)
Donlin (bat .300)
Doolan (Baltimore Fed.)
Downey (Buffalo Fed.)
Larry Doyle (New York Nat'l.)
Elberfeld (Brooklyn)
Evers (Boston Nat'l.)
Ford (Buffalo Fed.)
Fromme (New York Nat'l.)

Gandil (Washington)
Geyer (St Louis Nat'l.)
Griffith (Washington)
Groom (St Louis Nat'l.)
Herzog (Cinci)
Jennings (Detroit, one hand)
Jennings (Detroit, two hands)
Johnson (Washington, pitching)
Kelley (New York Amer.)
Konetchy (Pittsburgh Fed.)
Lajoie (Philadelphia Amer.)
Lennox (Pittsburgh Fed.)
Magee (Boston Nat'l.)
Marquard (New York Nat'l.)
McGraw (New York Nat'l.)
McLean (New York Nat'l.)
McQuillan (Pittsburgh Nat'l.)
Meyers (portrait, New York Nat'l.)
Myers (fielding, New York Nat'l.)
Myers (catching, New York Nat'l.)

Mullin (Newark Fed.)
Murray (New York Nat'l.)
Needham (Chicago Nat'l.)
Oakes (Pittsburgh Fed.)
Paskert (Philadelphia Nat'l.)
Quinn (Baltimore Fed.)
Rucker (Brooklyn)
Schaefer (K. C. Fed.)
Schulte (Chicago Nat'l.)
F. Smith (Baltimore Fed.)
Speaker (Boston Amer.)
Stovall (K. C. Fed.)
Summers
Bill Sweeney (Chicago Nat'l.)
Jeff Sweeney (New York Amer.)
Thomas (Philadelphia Amer.)
Tinker (bat off, Chicago Fed.)
Tinker (bat on, Chicago Fed.)
Heine Wagner (bat on right)
Wheat (Brooklyn)

Wilhelm (batting, Brooklyn)
Wiltse (Jersey City)


We now have 62 confirmed T214's....and, I expect more will show up eventually. This is a continuing work in progress; therefore, any help is really appreciated.

Any corrections of team identification is also appreciated.



TED Z

[Texxxx]

Ted, Devore was playing for Chillicothe, Oh. of the Ohio State League.

[frankb22]

Another Kelley

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Texxxx

Ted, Devore was playing for Chillicothe, Oh. of the Ohio State League.

I really appreciate your input regarding Devore. I have included his team on the list.

Thanks again,

TED Z

[JasonD08]

I used to own a Myers and I believe I put the McGraw on the map as a new subject. Sold McGraw in REA a few years ago and the Myers raw on ebay. The Myers was purchased in a group of low grade Kottons, Type 2 Coupons, and Minos that some dealer in a KC tri-star show has in 2 sheets. I purchased them for $80 and got to use my collection monster coupons for $30 off. One of the best purchases I ever made. I was shocked considering all of the vintage dealers with pre war around this guy and nobody bothered to look. Perhaps since they were all in lower grade.

Jason

[JasonD08]

McGraw POR and Myers was a pose I believe.

[wolf441]

Has anyone seen a Dode Paskert example? I see him on the confirmed list, but I've never seen a post of an actual card.

Best,

Steve

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by wolf441

Has anyone seen a Dode Paskert example? I see him on the confirmed list, but I've never seen a post of an actual card.

Best,

Steve

Steve

I have not seen a T214 Paskert. But, the existence of this card has been catalogued for some time now.

Perhaps, some Net54 member has (or has seen) this card and will chime in here.

Thanks for your post.


TED Z

[wolf441]

Thanks Ted,

I've finally finished the main Dode Paskert T206 back run, so I'm interested in some of the other sets like the T214 Victory that use the same image. Obviously, I know that prices are going to be steep, but to date I haven't come across a Paskert T206 blank back or Drum back or a Paskert T215 Red Cross, Pirate, T214 Victory or T213-1 1910 Coupon. Have you seen any of these back variations in your years within the hobby?

Thanks for the info and hope you are well,

Steve

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by wolf441

Thanks Ted,

I've finally finished the main Dode Paskert T206 back run, so I'm interested in some of the other sets like the T214 Victory that use the same image. Obviously, I know that prices are going to be steep, but to date I haven't come across a Paskert T206 blank back or Drum back or a Paskert T215 Red Cross, Pirate, T214 Victory or T213-1 1910 Coupon. Have you seen any of these back variations in your years within the hobby?

Thanks for the info and hope you are well,

Steve

Excuse this repy delay, as I was away.

I have seen Paskert cards with 1910 COUPON (T213-1) and T215 (Red Cross) backs. I have not seen a T215 PIRATE card of him, but it has been reported.

I haven't yet seen Paskert with the DRUM back....however, according to my "A-B-C-D" theory this is a possible F/B combo . Plus the fact that Paskert was
printed with the T213-1 COUPON back, further convinces me that he will eventually be confirmed with the DRUM back.


A-B-C-D theory





Regarding a Blank-Back version of Paskert, I cannot account for one. Perhaps, some one on this forum has (or knows of) one.


TED Z

[wolf441]

Thanks as always Ted!!

It's good to know what's out there/what could be out there. I have a feeling it's going to be a loooong project!

My ten year old daughter has loved collecting the various Paskert backs, so maybe she'll be the one to finish the project!!

[tedzan]

That's a great story regarding your 10-year old daughter. It reminds me of when my two daughters were very young. I got them interested in BB and Tennis.
And, by the time they were teenagers they were collecting BB cards.

They returned the favor by reviving my interest in Sportscard collecting back in 1977. I was very lucky, my original sportscard collection (1947-1952) was in
the attic of my folks home....just waiting to be discovered.

Best regards,

TED Z

[1880nonsports]

[QUOTE=Mikehealer;1254564]Hi Ted, one card not on your list that is in the 2010 Standard Catalog is Meyers catching. I don't know if it exists or not.

and there has been a both hands on Ebay since it was pulled from the pack.

I'm very interested in this. Could you share some information? TY in advance.

[usernamealreadytaken]

Getting into these rare beauties. T214 Donlin

[edjs]

You can add Oldring, Batting, Philadelphia Amer. to your list. It was in the last REA auction.

[edjs]

Chris, I thought for the longest that Donlin was flying under the radar, but in the end, I should have known better. Great pick up!

[Billy5858]

Originally Posted by edjs

Chris, I thought for the longest that Donlin was flying under the radar, but in the end, I should have known better. Great pick up!

+ 1 ...... Yeah I bid early....... and then ^^