1870's baseball team cabinet--Team, Player I.D.?

[RCMcKenzie]

A fellow collector pointed me in the direction of this 19th century team cabinet, and I was able to win the eBay auction. It is scheduled to arrive today. Here are the scans from the seller. Do you recognize any of these players?

The collector who recommended this photo to me believed he saw a fairly famous 19th century subject in the picture. I agreed, but I am very bad at photo recognition. If you show me a 1960's team photo, and tell me Pete Rose is in the picture, I will probably find Rose in the photo.

Are the uniforms consistent with the late 1870's? I will name the player that I believe is in the photo tomorrow, if no one comes up with the name I'm thinking...I'd like to try and figure out, with you all's help, the year, team, and any players, if possible...Thanks, Rob

[packs]

I was watching that photo too. It was suggested it could be a Washington team but it being a Brooklyn photographer I thought perhaps it was a local Williamsburg team. I know Brooklyn had a ton of neighborhood teams spring up in its heyday.

[RCMcKenzie]

I agree that the team would be somewhat near the studio in Brooklyn. This player spent time in his career in and around Brooklyn...Is this player in the team photo in the first post?

[spec]

The player seated at far right as we view your team picture could be Dude Estabrook, the player whose portrait you posted separately. Close-set eyes and ears seem consistent, as does size (Estabrook was 5-11).

[RCMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by spec

The player seated at far right as we view your team picture could be Dude Estabrook, the player whose portrait you posted separately. Close-set eyes and ears seem consistent, as does size (Estabrook was 5-11).

The aforementioned collector referred me to this photo because he knew I collected Esterbrook items. The J Wood photo is Esterbrook.

Baseball reference only has stats for him going back to 1880 with Buffalo at age 23. The bib uniforms make this cabinet earlier than 1880 I think. Esterbrook played for Westfield NJ in 1892, but these uniforms are not a fit, as was pointed out to me. I'm guessing a town starting with "W" near Brooklyn. I looked on the "threads of the game" site and did not see this uniform. They have done some exceptional research in the past.

[GaryPassamonte]

Considering the uniform and cap styles, I would most likely put the cabinet in the 1880-1885 period. Also, the mount speaks post 1880 to me.

[RCMcKenzie]

Thank you for the info on the possible year or years, Gary. I think 1880 or later would make it more likely, if were hoping to show that Esterbrook is actually on the cabinet.

As I stated earlier, I'm not good with identifying players, especially if I'm given a name and my confirmation bias sets in. I have the cabinet in hand, and just scanned a close-up. Any thoughts? Thanks, Rob

[Steve D]

Personally, looking at the two photos, I say no to it being Estabrook in the team photo.

Steve

[RCMcKenzie]

JeremyW is the collector who discovered this cabinet. I would have never seen it had he not tipped me off. I did not mention his name initially in case the whole thing went South in a hurry. ha-ha

Negative responses are also encouraged. If it's not Esterbrook, I'd like to know that too. Is Mark the SABR "ear guy" still around?

All opinions are appreciated...

More pics...

[Michael B]

A small suggestion for this. If you have a flat bed scanner I would try to scan this in grayscale. It will give you more of a black and white image which may help. Increasing the scanner image to 600 ppi or more and tweaking the contrast may also help.

[RCMcKenzie]

Thanks, Michael, I tried to sharpen the image in whatever photo-shop I have on my laptop. The images on my screen are what I can see in person. The cabinet is about the size of an n173..If I come up with anymore info I will let y'all know. I need to stumble upon more information about the team or studio. Thanks, all...Rob

[bmarlowe1]

It seems that the photo in hand is just too blurry to be sure. I can't prove it's not him - that's all I can say.


It would help to know the team and if he was on it.

[RCMcKenzie]

Thank you very much for chiming in, Mark. I guess this cabinet will remain a mystery for now. Maybe I can learn more in the future and report back. Here are more pictures from my scanner with higher settings, not really any sharper that I can see...Rob

[smokelessjoe]

See thread from this time last year. Perhaps some clues???


https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=265958

[RCMcKenzie]

Thank you, Shawn, for finding that thread. This should help a lot. It's great that JC has the same cabinet...Rob

[packs]

Do you have any evidence that shows Esterbrook ever played semi-pro ball in Brooklyn? Brooklyn would have still been considered it's own city at the time this photo was taken. Everything I read has Esterbrook being born in Staten Island and playing his professional ball in Manhattan.

[RCMcKenzie]

Packs, here's what baseball-reference has...He played all over the place, including New Orleans, where he reportedly walked back to NY from after being booed at the end of his career. I'm going by GaryP's opinion that the mount is 1880+. I thought the bibs were earlier, but I really do not know.

1880 Buffalo 64 games 23 years old
1881 NY Mets ECAS
1882 Cleveland NL
1882 NY LGAL
1883 NY METS
1884 NY METS
1885 NY Giants
1886 NY Giants J Wood Cabinet shown
1887 NY Mets
1888 TOT Toronto?
1888 Indy
1888 Louisville
1889 Louisville
1889 London, Ontario
1890 NY Giants
1891 Brooklyn Grooms
1892 Westfield, NJ
1894 New Orleans


Could the team be Westfield, NJ circa 1880 and he went back in 1892? The seller thought it was 'Washington DC.' JC's cabinet is identified on the back as "Baltimore". Lots of questions...

[packs]

I only bring it up because New York and Brooklyn would have been two entirely separate entities at the time. That's why the Brooklyn Dodgers were the Brooklyn Dodgers and never the New York Dodgers. I think if he had played in Brooklyn for a Brooklyn team you would see it on his record. I only see New York (for the estimated time period of the photo).

[BeanTown]

What a great find Rob. Sorry I'm late to the dance here. Have not done any more research on it, since I last posted. I think it's him without a doubt FWIW.

[RCMcKenzie]

Thanks for posting a scan of your cabinet, JC. The images look about the same, on both cabinets. I'll keep trying to discover the team, and look for more cabinets from this photographer...Rob