What is Carlos Beltran's rookie card?

[KingFisk]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

I agree those names are unlikely to get elected. But I also think that we could easily list 20+ (or more) Hall of Famers who are less deserving.



Full disclosure: My brother built and runs that site.

Oh awesome! I love that site. Your brother does great work.

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[Mike D.]

Originally Posted by KingFisk

Oh awesome! I love that site. Your brother does great work.

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Thank you. He got the brains in the family, and I all I got were these darn good looks

On the bright side, I can say I'm only the SECOND biggest baseball geek in my family!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Harold Baines fares extremely poorly on Hall of Stats.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Harold Baines fares extremely poorly on Hall of Stats.

Baines: 2866 hits, 384 hr, 1299 r, 1628 rbi, 289/356/465 121 ops+
Beltran: 2725 hits, 435 hr, 1582 r, 1587 rbi, 279/350/485 119 ops+

Where does that leave Beltran?

[Copa7]

This was also the case with soccer Hall of Famer John Harkes (Sheffield Wednesday, DC United),

His picture is on the card, but it has Hall of Fame Tab Ramos (Sporting Gijon, MetroStars) name.

They come from the same town and it's both their rookie card!

If it had a slab flip, I'd insist they include both names.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Yastrzemski Sports

Baines: 2866 hits, 384 hr, 1299 r, 1628 rbi, 289/356/465 121 ops+
Beltran: 2725 hits, 435 hr, 1582 r, 1587 rbi, 279/350/485 119 ops+

Where does that leave Beltran?

Beltran 134 points
Rankings by Hall Rating
108th All Time (Top 0.6%)
8th among Center Fielders

Baines 57 points
Rankings by Hall Rating
751st All Time (Top 3.9%)
221st among Hall of Famers
6th among Designated Hitters

[Mike D.]

Baines has 38.7 career WAR in a career that spanned 22 seasons.

Beltran had 69.6 career WAR in a career that spanned 20 seasons.

Their raw offensive #'s are close-ish as someone noted, but:

- Beltran was a 3x GG winning CF. Baines was a DH/mediocre OF.

- Beltran stole 300+ bases with less than 50 CS. Baines stole 34 career bases with a 50% success rate.

- 50 more HR is nothing to sneeze at, either.

Baines is the worst HOF selection in recent memory. Beltran isn't a slam-dunk, no doubt HOFer, but I think he's deserving.

[Yastrzemski Sports]

Originally Posted by Mike D.

Baines has 38.7 career WAR in a career that spanned 22 seasons.

Beltran had 69.6 career WAR in a career that spanned 20 seasons.

Their raw offensive #'s are close-ish as someone noted, but:

- Beltran was a 3x GG winning CF. Baines was a DH/mediocre OF.

- Beltran stole 300+ bases with less than 50 CS. Baines stole 34 career bases with a 50% success rate.

- 50 more HR is nothing to sneeze at, either.

Baines is the worst HOF selection in recent memory. Beltran isn't a slam-dunk, no doubt HOFer, but I think he's deserving.

Offensively, they are almost identical as shown in their ops+ with Baines having a slight edge. I found it an interesting comparison when he was described as having “ extremely poor” stats for HOF and Beltran seems like a lock. I do give credit to Beltran for his defense. But I don’t think 3 gg ever put a player over the top for induction.

Baines had 1 top 10 finish in the MVP voting. Beltran had 2. So neither one was dominating their leagues in the era they played. I don’t think you can make an argument for or against one and not the other. You can show me WAR and black ink to “prove” that one was superior to the other but they were very similar players - offensively.

Baines has become the poster boy for bad HOF inductees. My argument is only that he’s a pretty good pick, that he had a very nice career and is getting a bad rap. Put him in and Beltran too.