Ebay sticking their mitts into sellers pockets again

[RichardSimon]

Starting March 30, 2010 selling on eBay will be a better deal than ever!

List Auction-style FREE--no Insertion Fees--when you start your Auction-style listing under $1.


Get new, lower Insertion Fees for all other start prices.


Either way, pay one easy Final Value Fee of 9% of the winning bid (but never more than $50)-and pay only if your item sells.


List in Fixed Price for 50¢, with Final Value Fees for the most part staying the same.
This new standard fee structure will replace the current "first 5 listings free"--you'll pay no Insertion Fees whenever you list Auction-style and start pricing under $1!*

Get complete details on the new eBay fees and get ready to SELL!

Sincerely,

eBay Seller Team

[D. Bergin]

So once again Ebay punishes sellers who actually SELL stuff and encourages more listings of 99 cent crap.

Nice.

If that 9% final value fee is accurate, Ebay fees just went up dramatically for any items that sell for over $25.00.............unless it's a really high end item and the $50 cap works for you.


I love the part.

"- and pay only if the item sells". Awfully nice of Ebay to not charge me a final value fee on an item that didn't sell.


Leon and Matt's new auction site is starting to look better and better.

[D. Bergin]

But..........."Ebay will be a better deal then ever!"


Happy Day!

[Exhibitman]

Between fleecebay and payfraud the total hit for a non-store seller of a $100 item at fixed price is 13.2% (10% ebay and 3.2% paypal). For a few % more I can consign to an auctioneer and not waste my time.

[D. Bergin]

Not including insertion fees which I haven't even wrapped my head around yet.

Start an item in a traditional style auction listing at $9.95 and have it end at $200.

Present Final Value fee - $8.32
Future Final Value fee - $18.00

That's well over a 100% fee raise.


.............and yet somehow Ebay is selling it as a fee reduction.

[birdman42]

At least they're not charging a 17.5% buyer's fee (yet).

Bill

[iggyman]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Not including insertion fees which I haven't even wrapped my head around yet.

Start an item in a traditional style auction listing at $9.95 and have it end at $200.

Present Final Value fee - $8.32
Future Final Value fee - $18.00

That's well over a 100% fee raise.

Yikes! What if you start an item at .99 cents and it sells for $500.

Present eBay fees = $18.81
Future eBay fees = $45.00

Ouch!!! That is going to leave a mark. They've capped the fees out at $50, but if you do the math.......any sale for less then $1273.75 and your fees go up. They are really going to punish the nickel and dime sellers. I'm sorry to say that includes me. It's time to start the divorce proceedings.
Does "Grand Slam" need anymore pilot sellers???

Lovely Day...

[rhettyeakley]

The people running eBay have to be insane to think this is a good idea. They have already done so mach damage in the past that this is just the icing on the cake. It is almost like they are trying to see how fast they can run this ship into the ground!
-Rhett

[Anthony S.]

Ebay's fee change emails are so disingenuous. Perhaps McDonalds should advertise a 99 cent Big Mac with the "new, easy handing the Big Mac to the customer fee of $6.99."

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

The people running eBay have to be insane to think this is a good idea. They have already done so mach damage in the past that this is just the icing on the cake. It is almost like they are trying to see how fast they can run this ship into the ground!
-Rhett

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...the CEO of ebay can't wait to use his golden parachute. I got that email the other day and just shook my head...it won't hurt me much because I'm a casual seller and usually only sell something when I'm looking to buy something else, but this is really going to hurt my brother.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

Ebay's fee change emails are so disingenuous. Perhaps McDonalds should advertise a 99 cent Big Mac with the "new, easy handing the Big Mac to the customer fee of $6.99."

Are you kiddin' me? Didn't you read this part?

Either way, pay one easy Final Value Fee of 9% of the winning bid

See there, it's "easy"! Why in hell would you want to pay 8.75% of the first 25 bucks and 3.5% of the amount over that when you can just pay an easy flat fee of 9%?

Keeps things easy peasy, and your calculator in tip top shape not having to figure out all that complicated math.

[D. Bergin]

Leon and Matt better add a bunch of extra servers to their auction program.

I have a feeling Ebay just gifted them a ton of customers.

[egbeachley]

Iggyman has a nice chart, but in all fairness you should subtract the 35 cents (or so) listing fee from the new fee chart to show that the break-even point is a sale price of around $38. That's their target audience.

I believe you can avoid this new fee structure if you just start the opening bid at $1 or more. So for items expected to sell for less than $38, start the bid at $0.95. If more then start at $1.00.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

Iggyman has a nice chart, but in all fairness you should subtract the 35 cents (or so) listing fee from the new fee chart to show that the break-even point is a sale price of around $38. That's their target audience.

I believe you can avoid this new fee structure if you just start the opening bid at $1 or more. So for items expected to sell for less than $38, start the bid at $0.95. If more then start at $1.00.

Yeah, but that "break-even point" disappears quickly for any items that sell for more then $38.00.

I don't know of any business plan that involves hoping your items sell for as little as possible to avoid higher auction fees.

[iggyman]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

Iggyman has a nice chart, but in all fairness you should subtract the 35 cents (or so) listing fee from the new fee chart to show that the break-even point is a sale price of around $38. That's their target audience.

I believe you can avoid this new fee structure if you just start the opening bid at $1 or more. So for items expected to sell for less than $38, start the bid at $0.95. If more then start at $1.00.

You are correct about the chart (it is flawed), here is a corrected one:



AUCTIONS NO STORE

Sell Price - OLD FVF -NEW FVF -$increase -%increase
$10.00..........$1.03.......$0.90.......(0.13).... .....-12%
$25.00..........$2.34.......$2.25.......(0.09).... ......-4%
$26.50..........$2.39.......$2.39.......(0.01).... .......0%
$50.00..........$3.21.......$4.50........1.29..... .......40%
$75.00..........$4.09.......$6.75........2.66..... .......65%
$100.00.........$4.96......$9.00........4.04...... .......81%
$150.00.........$6.71.....$13.50........6.79...... ......101%
$200.00.........$8.46.....$18.00........9.54...... ......113%
$250.00........$10.21.....$22.50.......12.29...... .....120%
$300.00........$11.96.....$27.00.......15.04...... .....126%
$400.00........$15.46.....$36.00.......20.54...... .....133%
$500.00........$18.96.....$45.00.......26.04...... .....137%
$600.00........$22.46.....$50.00.......27.54...... .....123%
$700.00........$25.96.....$50.00.......24.04...... .......93%
$800.00........$29.46.....$50.00.......20.54...... .......70%
$900.00........$32.96.....$50.00.......17.04...... .......52%
$1000.00......$36.46......$50.00.......13.54...... ......37%


I have not seen where it states that you can get around the new fee structure by listing stuff for $1 or more???? As far as I know, it's .09% irregardless (with the only exception being if you have a store). If my math is correct, the break-even point is $26.50 on auctions that start at .99 cents (assuming an insertion fee of .15 cents).

Lovely Day...

[RichardSimon]

They are such greedy bastards. This is what happens when Wall St is a companies primary concern. They have to show earnings growth every quarter or the stock will get pounded and all their precious options won't be worth toilet paper.
They are not thinking about how the volume of selling will go down though with such outrageous pricing.
COME ON LEON,,, make your sight the place to be for sports stuff.
--

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by iggyman

I have not seen where it states that you can get around the new fee structure by listing stuff for $1 or more???? As far as I know, it's .09% irregardless (with the only exception being if you have a store). If my math is correct, the break-even point is $26.50 on auctions that start at .99 cents (assuming an insertion fee of .15 cents).

Thanks for the update. $26.50 or a little higher, depending on the listing fee.

I read a press release a couple days ago that mentioned the new fee structure, which was designed for the casual seller, would not affect most sellers. And that the $1.00 starting point would negate the new fee structure. I'll post it if I find it again.

[iggyman]

Am I living in some sort of bizzaro world??? Is this the sorry state of current U.S. journalism?


From the Wall Street Journal:

"EBay To Cut Listing Fees In Bid To Lure Sellers"
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-...atestheadlines

My favorite quote in the article: "The new fee structure appeared to be designed to appease the site's smaller sellers, who have grown increasingly frustrated by changes the company has made to attract larger retailers and merchants."

From Forbes.com

"It's Cheaper To Sell on eBay"
http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/26/eba...ties-fees.html

Favorite quote: “Free--and practically free--is great news for anyone wanting to earn extra cash or build a business on eBay ( EBAY - news - people ),” said Lorrie Norrington, president of eBay Marketplaces.

From CNN Money...
EBay shakeup brings $0 listing fee
http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/27/smal...y_fee_changes/

Favorite by far: "For example, a $200 electronics sale with a 99-cent starting price would currently rack up fees of $8.47. Under the new model, fees would rise to $18. But if the item didn't sell, eBay would collect nothing."


Not even Hugo Chavez could have spinned it so well. Great job by these writers!

-Lovely Day...

[D. Bergin]

Maybe they're just preparing us for the day when Ebay starts to charge us Final Value Fees on items that DON'T sell.


...........or the fact we should list a $200 item for 99 cents and cheer for ourselves when it goes unsold and we don't get charged any fees. I don't know.

[Rich Klein]

Sounds like good advertising for Leon and Matt's nibble at EBay. Don't be suprised if there are not more attacks at EBay by nibbles in other collectible and non-collectible fields.

Rich

[egbeachley]

Every one of those articles mentions the no listing fee if the starting price is under $1.00. So if you have a bunch of poor T206's or whatever that you expect to sell for around $10, it's good.

If you expect it to go over $30, then just start the listing at $1.00.

[iggyman]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

Every one of those articles mentions the no listing fee if the starting price is under $1.00. So if you have a bunch of poor T206's or whatever that you expect to sell for around $10, it's good.

If you expect it to go over $30, then just start the listing at $1.00.

I have to disagree completely. That is NOT going to help you! You will incurr an additional expense with an insertion fee plus the same 9% FVF with the $10 start price. If your item sells for under $26.50 your fees are a little better. That part is fact. Starting something at $10 will not help you with the fees.

Lovely Day...

[steve B]

Yep, the new auction venue should get some decent action.

There's also bidstart.com, an offshoot of stampwants.com which has taken a decent bite out of ebay in the stamps category and is now branching out to other collectibles.

Steve

[D. Bergin]

I start almost all my items at $9.95 and it has always worked for me and I have a very good sell through rate. The whole starting something under a buck and hoping I get 6 bids just to push it up to $9.95 to save 35 cents in listing fees seems pretty self defeating and risky to me.

Either way, 9% is 9%.

I suppose I can purchase a store which I've never had a need for because I already have a website that doesn't charge me a separate fee every month for every single item I have in it.

That will probably save some money, but I will have to pay the store fee every month despite not using it, and the rates are still higher then they are right now..........and right now, the rates are much higher then they were just a year ago.

These aren't cost of living increases. They are taking a percentage of our sales which should not be influenced by cost of living, inflation or anything else.

These constant bumps in percentages while touting "well we haven't raised your rates in a year" is ridiculous. This isn't the Post Office. A constant raising of percentage fees indicates someday hypothetically they will be taking 100% of all you sell and then charging you for insertion rates and demanding you ship everything for free..............and pay to insure everything out of your own pocket.

Of course I've gone to the extreme but that's the logic.

I also don't understand this fascination with lowering your up front costs while raising final value fees. I keep running across people who love this. "It keeps my listing costs down in case my item doesn't sell".

That's ridiculous! I actually prefer to sell my stuff and don't understand constantly getting penalized for doing so.

My rant for today I guess.

Just a little discouraged at all of this.

[tinkereversandme]

Whenever eBay makes an annoucement of any sort, it usually means one thing, that the sellers will get screwed over. It doesn't effect me as I don't sell, but I know many who do. They always try and spin it like they are saving the consumer, but nothing ever goes down anymore. I bought ice cream the other day and noticed that the price is the same, but you don't get as much. Everyone openly complains but the truth of the matter is that we will always find a way to use the site after the initial shock leaves. Donohoe (is that the new CEO?) has done nothing but bad and it's just a matter of time before they start pricing out the sellers and begin going after the buyers...maye 3% at first, then 5% and so on.

Regards,
Larry

[iggyman]

I'm both a buyer and seller on eBay and this just might be the final nail in the coffin for me. I will probably still sell on ebay, but effective March 30th it will be via the "buy-it-now" format. I'm done with the auction format. If you guys think it's hard enough to find stuff right now. Did anybody notice this line in the official announcement;

"Also starting March 30, there will be one Fixed Price format on eBay. Listings in the current Stores Inventory Format will automatically become regular Fixed Price listings with the same duration and appear with all other Fixed Price listings in eBay search results."


Thus, everthing that resides in "store inventories" today will polute the search function. Lovely, isn't it!

Lovely Day...

[ctownboy]

Iggyman,

I have said for nearly two years now that the people who manage eBay are trying to turn it from an auction company into one big store. Everything under one roof with a fixed price. An Amazon flea market, if you will. That way it is easier for them to manage and has a more predictive cash flow.

My point then and my point now is that if they want to do THAT then they should SPLIT THE COMPANY INTO TWO PIECES!!! One for strictly fixed prices with one fee structure and another for just auctions with a seperate fee structure.

I sell on eBay and the majority of things I list are lower priced and in an auction format. I rarely use the Buy It Now feature and do not have a store. I do NOT want to limit myself to a set dollar amount when possibly two (or more) people might be interested in an item and bid it up.

For example, a couple of years ago, I bought a McCoy Pottery piggy bank for $4 dollars at a thrift store. It was marked and also dated 1957. I started it out at $9.99. It soon had a bid. It then soon had a $20 dollar bid. Shortly after that, someone E mailed me and asked if I would sell it to them for $40 dollars or put a Buy It Now price on it that I felt comfortable with. I said no.
Partly because I didn't know what a reasonable price might be and partly because with that much interest I thought this thing might be rare.

I was right.

The bank sold for $700 dollars to a collector in New York City. This was because the bank was a rare color which hard core collectors had a hard time finding especially in such good condition. Because I didn't know this (and didn't really want to take the time to find out) if I had listed it at a fixed price or taken the $40 dollar offer, I would have missed out on a HUGE profit (and eBay would have missed out on larger fees).

Because of examples like this and also because I DON'T want to price something so high that it doesn't sell (and be accused of having a museum like some people on this board accuse certain dealers of) I don't like the idea of using Buy It Now prices or having a fixed price store.

That is why I truly think that breaking eBay into two different companies would be a more profitable idea for the sellers, management and shareholders.

David

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by iggyman

I have to disagree completely. That is NOT going to help you! You will incurr an additional expense with an insertion fee plus the same 9% FVF with the $10 start price. If your item sells for under $26.50 your fees are a little better. That part is fact. Starting something at $10 will not help you with the fees.

Lovely Day...

If you don't qualify for the free listing, the FVF is NOT 9%, it's the regular 8.75% then 3.00% over $25.

[iggyman]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

If you don't qualify for the free listing, the FVF is NOT 9%, it's the regular 8.75% then 3.00% over $25.

I'm sorry but you are wrong. It's 9% across the board with a $50 cap. Only store sellers get a little bit of a discount and it is not so great for them either. Store sellers will have insertion fees, no cap, and of course the monthly store fees.

Lovely Day...

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by iggyman

I'm sorry but you are wrong. It's 9% across the board with a $50 cap. Only store sellers get a little bit of a discount and it is not so great for them either. Store sellers will have insertion fees, no cap, and of course the monthly store fees.

Lovely Day...

I stand corrected. You are right. I see the official fee structure that doesn't mention bypassing this method. Thanks!

So if you have anything over $25.00, you should sell it before March 31st.

[BCauley]

I'm glad I'm dumping off all of my modern stuff now, minus some rookie cards and players I collect. Selling about 95% of my modern in order to use that money and pick up some pre-war (and a post war) vintage. I'm just glad I know of this site and will use the B/S/T much more often. I also find the vintage links page a great start to find something I'm looking for. Ebay is shooting itself in the foot.

[buymycards]

I haven't had time to analyze the new BIN and store fees, but it looks like they will be increased drastically. The only way to get some decent fees will be to pay a $49 or $299 monthly fee in addition to the regular fees. Final value fees for stores are going way up.

Rick

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by BCauley

...I'm just glad I know of this site and will use the B/S/T much more often. I also find the vintage links page a great start to find something I'm looking for. Ebay is shooting itself in the foot.

I was thinking the same thing - most vintage collectibles have a huge forum (sometimes several), along with a classifieds section that already does fairly well. This should push a lot more business into the collectibles classifieds section.

I'm not seeing how this is a good idea for ebay, but as we've said before, it is all about money for them - nothing about customer satisfaction - and I'm sure they've had business analysts determine that this will bring in more $$$. They are certainly @ss-wipes, but they are not stupid.

[Potomac Yank]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I'm not seeing how this is a good idea for ebay, but as we've said before, it is all about money for them - nothing about customer satisfaction - and I'm sure they've had business analysts determine that this will bring in more $$$. They are certainly @ss-wipes, but they are not stupid.

*

You and I both know ..... that the folks at eBay, are a bunch of great guys.

Good to see you back on board.

Joe P.