Johnson/Mathewson/Young. Who do you feel gets the most hobby love?

[Jstottlemire1]

Who do you guys collect or feel has the most value in this era? Discuss!!

[milkit1]

I feel Walter Johnson though Matty is very close. I think Matty has a bit of mystique that keeps his value on par with Johnson. Young is up there too but the one thing he lacks is not getting elected in the first hof election that Johnson, Matty, Cobb, Ruth and Speaker recieved. That doesnt mean Young is any worse that's just the only thing I can think of that might lower his value from the others.

[Stampsfan]

IMO in hobby lore and baseball purists, Matty.

To the average fan, Young, for obvious reasons.

I seem to remember many years ago, WaJo was spoken of in more glorified terms that Matty. But that seems to have shifted (IMO) in the last, say, ten years.

[Jstottlemire1]

Very valid point. The way these fellas arms held up and their consistency in a era where batters looked for base hits and to move runners to manufacture runs is really under appreciated.

[Bobbycee]

If we're talking T206, then I think it's: Young, Matty, then Johnson. It might in part with Young having the highest single card value in his iconic portrait card. I wish Walter had 1 more card in the set to bring him even with Young & Matty at 3 each.

[Jstottlemire1]

I have Dark and White Cap Matty, Glove Showing Young and Ive yet to find the Johnson that fits my tastes and budget. I’ll def be excited to have a copy of each three this year however.

[Snapolit1]

Matty. He just has the classic look. And the tragic demise.

[packs]

WaJo is king when it comes to their respective T206's. Matty is beloved by purists but his cards lag behind both in most mainstream contemporary sets where they're all subjects.

[Bicem]

Wajo, he was better.

[rhettyeakley]

WaJo was the best of the trio but I feel like in terms of value he is probably #3 in that group simply due to the differing periods their careers spanned. Young started so early and predated WaJo by almost 20 years so it is tough to compare a roughly 1890-1910 career to one that roughly spanned from 1908-1928. Matty basically bridges the gap between the other 2 & was in New York at the time and was so beloved by the NY media that he has a more romantic feel to his career (especially given his early demise). WaJo was later and is easier to acquire an item of given the time he played, thus a lower demand.

I feel like WaJo should be more appreciated than he is, given that in my opinion he is the greatest pitcher of all time. It feels weird to say it and I certainly don’t mean to be offensive by saying so but Walter Johnson may just be a bit too boring to people. He played in a smaller market for some bad teams, by all accounts wasn’t a mean or nasty individual and was pretty much universally liked by just about everyone. For some athletes that can be a bit of a hinderance, which is strange but true. Also pitchers have always lagged behind position players as far as overall value as it related to collectibles. Even in today’s game/hobby there is no pitcher whose items come anywhere close to having the demand that players like Mike Trout, Ronald Acuna, Derek Jeter or Ken Griffey Jr demand.

[RCMcKenzie]

I would be glad to pick up any of their cards...maybe Plank in there too..."Waterfront" or conerstone cards in the hobby going forward...

[Jstottlemire1]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I would be glad to pick up any of their cards...maybe Plank in there too..."Waterfront" or conerstone cards in the hobby going forward...

I like that Johnson such a beautiful card. I have the other two in my collection as well and absolutely love them. Thanks for sharing.

[Jstottlemire1]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

WaJo was the best of the trio but I feel like in terms of value he is probably #3 in that group simply due to the differing periods their careers spanned. Young started so early and predated WaJo by almost 20 years so it is tough to compare a roughly 1890-1910 career to one that roughly spanned from 1908-1928. Matty basically bridges the gap between the other 2 & was in New York at the time and was so beloved by the NY media that he has a more romantic feel to his career (especially given his early demise). WaJo was later and is easier to acquire an item of given the time he played, thus a lower demand.

I feel like WaJo should be more appreciated than he is, given that in my opinion he is the greatest pitcher of all time. It feels weird to say it and I certainly don’t mean to be offensive by saying so but Walter Johnson may just be a bit too boring to people. He played in a smaller market for some bad teams, by all accounts wasn’t a mean or nasty individual and was pretty much universally liked by just about everyone. For some athletes that can be a bit of a hinderance, which is strange but true. Also pitchers have always lagged behind position players as far as overall value as it related to collectibles. Even in today’s game/hobby there is no pitcher whose items come anywhere close to having the demand that players like Mike Trout, Ronald Acuna, Derek Jeter or Ken Griffey Jr demand.

You really hit the nail on the head with pitchers and position players. Sad but true. Thanks for the feedback. This I feel is spot on.

[jchcollins]

Guess I need a Matty:





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[Mark17]

Originally Posted by milkit1

I feel Walter Johnson though Matty is very close. I think Matty has a bit of mystique that keeps his value on par with Johnson. Young is up there too but the one thing he lacks is not getting elected in the first hof election that Johnson, Matty, Cobb, Ruth and Speaker recieved. That doesnt mean Young is any worse that's just the only thing I can think of that might lower his value from the others.

It was Cobb, Ruth, Wagner, Matty, and Walter, in that order.

[robertsmithnocure]

To me, collectibility:
1. Young
2. Tie between Johnson and Mathewson

Skill level:
1. Johnson
2. Mathewson
3. Young

[Huysmans]

I think Young is deserving of the most admiration, with Mathewson a close second...
... and Johnson a distant third.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Mark17

It was Cobb, Ruth, Wagner, Matty, and Walter, in that order.

Ruth and Wagner tied. I would say Cy Young gets the most hobby love. He wasn't elected in 1936 because there was confusion over the voting. There were 2 votes, pre 1900 players and post 1900 players. The voters were confused over which group Young belonged in and split his vote resulting in him being short in both. Between having the pitching award named for him and his high WAR, I don't see that changing. Wojo is a close 2nd with Matty 3rd.

Originally Posted by rats60

Ruth and Wagner tied. I would say Cy Young gets the most hobby love. He wasn't elected in 1936 because there was confusion over the voting. There were 2 votes, pre 1900 players and post 1900 players. The voters were confused over which group Young belonged in and split his vote resulting in him being short in both. Between having the pitching award named for him and his high WAR, I don't see that changing. Wojo is a close 2nd with Matty 3rd.

That's very interesting about the HOF voting. I had no idea...thanks for that!

[jchcollins]

Anymore in terms of skill / accomplishments / “Greatest pitcher of all time” arguments, Johnson and Mathewson seem to trade 1 & 2 places in lists that you see online, from ESPN or TSN, etc. etc.

If they could switch, and Johnson had played in New York, I don’t think we would even be speculating about who was better. Otherwise him and Mathewson have somewhat similar career numbers. Johnson lasted longer - 21 years vs. Matty’s 17. Johnson’s career ERA is 2.17 to Matty’s 2.13, and if memory serves he is only a few places behind him on the all-time WHIP list. Where Johnson really stands out to me though is in the K’s and the shutout record. He was the first pitcher with more than 3,000 K’s - and 50 plus years later, it was his record that Ryan, Carlton, and Perry were chasing. Johnson had more than 1,000 strikeouts more than Matty, and was the premier strikeout pitcher in an era where granted - that wasn’t really a thing - but clearly it became one. The 110 shutouts is just one of those jaw-dropping things to me, will never come close to being equaled. Pete Alexander had 90, Mathewson is 3rd on that list with 79, Young right behind him with 76.

Certainly nothing against Denton True Young; I think if anyone rivals Nolan Ryan just for the most durable / amazing pitcher of all time - its him. I do think it’s possible just with collectors though - that the fact of his name recognition due to the award gives him a slight advantage over the other 2. I don’t think he was a better pitcher than Matty or Johnson, but he certainly would seem to be a bigger name.

My 2 cents. Thanks.



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[Jcosta19]

I agree with the Young, Matty, Johnson order ranking in general.

I think for me personally Matty is #1 for collecting (cards, photos, etc) because I'm subconsciously trying to make up for the fact I'll probably never own his autograph.

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[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

... and Johnson a distant third.

Distant? Why?


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[darwinbulldog]

Should be WaJo, but it's Matty.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Am I crazy? Doesn't the Johnson routinely sell for more than any of the Mattys?

[Jstottlemire1]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Am I crazy? Doesn't the Johnson routinely sell for more than any of the Mattys?

A lot of great points and solid reasoning above. The trend I see lately as well is the Johnson cards a premium over the Mathewson cards.

[Jstottlemire1]

Originally Posted by rats60

Ruth and Wagner tied. I would say Cy Young gets the most hobby love. He wasn't elected in 1936 because there was confusion over the voting. There were 2 votes, pre 1900 players and post 1900 players. The voters were confused over which group Young belonged in and split his vote resulting in him being short in both. Between having the pitching award named for him and his high WAR, I don't see that changing. Wojo is a close 2nd with Matty 3rd.

I was unaware of this as well. Thanks for the info. Keep it coming I’m interested in the varying opinions.

[packs]

A T206 WaJo portrait will outsell a Cy Young as well. I'm not really seeing the counter argument for any seeding other than WaJo / Young / Matty.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by rats60

Ruth and Wagner tied. I would say Cy Young gets the most hobby love. He wasn't elected in 1936 because there was confusion over the voting. There were 2 votes, pre 1900 players and post 1900 players. The voters were confused over which group Young belonged in and split his vote resulting in him being short in both. Between having the pitching award named for him and his high WAR, I don't see that changing. Wojo is a close 2nd with Matty 3rd.

Wow! Love learning something new. This should be a bonus question on some baseball trivia game.

Young
WaJo
Matty

They all studs, but that would be my order

[Leon]

I agree with this list.

Originally Posted by BeanTown

Wow! Love learning something new. This should be a bonus question on some baseball trivia game.

Young
WaJo
Matty

They all studs, but that would be my order

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by packs

A T206 WaJo portrait will outsell a Cy Young as well. I'm not really seeing the counter argument for any seeding other than WaJo / Young / Matty.

This is because you are looking at a single set...believe it or not there is more to pre-WW2 cards than the T206 set. Crazy, but true!

Keep in mind the T206 set is from the earliest part of Walter Johnson's career while it is Cy Young's 20th year in Major League baseball, it would make sense that the card of a young superstar player would command more than the last card of another superstar. Even Christy Mathewson had items that predate the T206 set by 8 years. I would expect the T206 of a young WaJo to outperform the other two.

Looking at a single set and trying to extrapolate from that is too facile a comparison to get a true idea for relative value/demand.

[egbeachley]

I think if you walked up to the average baseball fan who knows about the history of the game, and told them you had an opportunity to buy one of their cards, without being specific, they would suggest Johnson, then Young, then Mathewson. Young gets a huge boost because of the award named after him.

[brob28]

I'd say:

1) Matty
2) WaJo
3) Young

However, its real close between Matty & WaJo - neither is lacking in regards to their fair share of love within the hobby.

[Jstottlemire1]

This is a great thread. I’m bringing it back up for further discussion in today’s crazy market.

[familytoad]

Pictures posted randomly, But I'm going to go with this order:

WAJO
MATTY
YOUNG

Why?

Walter Johnson was the best right-handed pitcher of all time according to my polling. I was the only one to respond.

Christy Mathewson has the classic story, a great great pitcher, sad ending.

Cy Young is third in this grouping , check out that dude's losses

[Jstottlemire1]

Originally Posted by familytoad

Pictures posted randomly, But I'm going to go with this order:

WAJO
MATTY
YOUNG

Why?

Walter Johnson was the best right-handed pitcher of all time according to my polling. I was the only one to respond.

Christy Mathewson has the classic story, a great great pitcher, sad ending.

Cy Young is third in this grouping , check out that dude's losses

Logic makes since to me. I know Young averaged 12 loses per season and over 300 career losses, I believe. Something to be said for longevity some say but I also think Wajo was the best. I agree with the order field dominance wise.

[irishdenny]

In Order By Collectible Material:

Mr Mathewson
Mr Cy Young
Mr Johnson

i am Biased Though... Which Only means that i am Biased!

[Exhibitman]

Head to head, so to speak, in T206 portraits:

Young
Johnson
Mathewson

Johnson was the best pitcher of the three.

[brianp-beme]

Not speaking of how others view these 3 great picthers, but this is who gets most of my hobby love based upon what is available in vintage cards within my favorite card era and issued during their playing careers:

Mathewson - probably my favorite period of baseball cards is the 1910 era (1908-1915), due to some great artistry seen, but also because there are so many different issues that were produced, with tobacco, candy and gum, bakery and so on. Christy was at the height of his career, and so is featured in many sets. This makes him my #1.

Johnson - Walter was a relative upstart when the 1908-1915 era began, but managed to make his way into many of the tobacco sets of this period. He also has the advantage of being in many of the strip card and black and white photo issues of the 1920's. If looking at overall availability, he may be tops, but his presence is sorely lacking in the early candy and gum issues which I really like (the only 1910 E card set he is in is the E91C American Caramel, and that facial image is actually of Rube Waddell). So he comes in a close second.

Young - He is pictured in a variety of the 1910 era sets, but not quite as many as Matty due to it being at the tail end of his career (and the disheartening fact that multiple cards picturing Irv Young are designated as Cy Young). He does have the advantage of being in earlier issues such as the E107 set. But of the 3 he has the fewest available different cards during his career, so he lags behind in 3rd according to my guidelines.

Brian