Thoughts on this? (Round 2)

[iwantitiwinit]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/t206-christy...QAAOSw0RlZdUiq

I know sizes vary but this appears awfully short with minimal top white border I'd look for a larger bottom border and it appears very small also. How about paper loss on the left edge outline, could that paper loss have occurred after encapsulation.

[Rhotchkiss]

Agreed, looks short. Plus, whoever buys that 6 is buying the flip and not the card

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

http://www.ebay.com/itm/t206-christy...QAAOSw0RlZdUiq

I know sizes vary but this appears awfully short with minimal top white border I'd look for a larger bottom border and it appears very small also. How about paper loss on the left edge outline, could that paper loss have occurred after encapsulation.

It was graded a long time ago. So it could have been a time when they was very generous with grades as their standards are constantly changing.

It looks way short to me.

[Jobu]

In addition to the dimensions, there appear to be two spots of possible paper loss on the left border at chest level.

[DeanH3]

Wow! That looks, uh, bad. Older grade but recent holder. I would like to think when it was re-holdered someone would have raised an eye-brow. Guess not.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Yikes. A trimmed VG/EX card in a PSA 6 holder, fun, fun, fun

[Leon]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

http://www.ebay.com/itm/t206-christy...QAAOSw0RlZdUiq

I know sizes vary but this appears awfully short with minimal top white border I'd look for a larger bottom border and it appears very small also. How about paper loss on the left edge outline, could that paper loss have occurred after encapsulation.

That's the mini version ..no problem

[botn]

Might be due to the images he provided but that card appears to have all kinds of issues.

[pokerplyr80]

Looks like the same card sold in may at memory lane. I couldn't pull up the description on my phone but am curious to see what they said. Definitely a rough 6.

[orly57]

Looks like a rough 2.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Looks like the same card sold in may at memory lane. I couldn't pull up the description on my phone but am curious to see what they said. Definitely a rough 6.

It is the same card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It was graded a long time ago. So it could have been a time when they was very generous with grades as their standards are constantly changing.

It looks way short to me.

Why do you say it's an old grade, it is in the style that was the latest until the last month or two. Or was it reholdered?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why do you say it's an old grade, it is in the style that was the latest until the last month or two. Or was it reholdered?

It has been reholdered. Just look at the old cert #.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It has been reholdered. Just look at the old cert #.

Good to know there is no review in that process. Huge loophole for the Mexican dude, I suspect.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Good to know there is no review in that process. Huge loophole for the Mexican dude, I suspect.

Cards can be reviewed during reholders but it doesn't seem in their best interest to lower grades as they'd have to write a check to make up the value. Assuming the guarantee applies.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Wow unreal!

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Good to know there is no review in that process. Huge loophole for the Mexican dude, I suspect.

Didn't someone here reholder a card recently and was told it had to be reviewed? Then again the PSA 9 49 B Robinson RC in the other thread is in a new holder with a huge print defect on his hat.

[glynparson]

They do not lower grades on review unless the holder had damage in which case they sometimes claim the damaged holder compromised the cards grade. Otherwise they won't lower the grade. Is this right probably not but we know this grading game is far from perfect. They may at times try to buy something egregious back or if it is counterfeit but overgraded they just reslab. They also check the holders for authenticity. Because of the Mexican cartel a hole.

[botn]

Here is the description from the Memory Lane listing in May. It is almost irresponsible. On second thought it is irresponsible.

(LOT 10)
1909 T206 Piedmont 150/25 Christy Mathewson Portrait PSA 6 EX-MT

Presented here is a stellar PSA 6 T206 Portrait Mathewson "Piedmont 150 Cigarettes" gem that is synonymous with Mathewson's unparalleled legacy, has defiantly withstood the test of time. When the name Christy Mathewson comes up for conversation, similar to the renowned former "E.F. Hutton" commercial, people listen! Mathewson's iconic status in baseball history cannot be overemphasized, with Christy unquestionably regarded as one of the greatest pitchers to ever toe a Major league pitching rubber. Mathewson amassed an amazing 373 lifetime victories, 2.13 lifetime E.R.A., and accumulated four 30-win seasons.

Even more impressive were his 3 World Series shutouts against Connie Mack's 1905 A.L. champion Athletics, prompting the legendary Mack to state: "Christy Mathewson was the greatest pitcher who ever lived. It was wonderful to watch him pitch when he wasn't pitching against you". Yet, all of his incredible pitching achievements are just part of his unparalleled legacy since he was a childhood hero to most aspiring baseball youths. Virtually all young boys worshiped the "Big Six" due to his combined pitching prowess and gentleman like status, ultimately resulting in his immortal nickname "The Christian Gentleman".

For all of the aforementioned reasons, Mathewson's T206 mementos are highly sought after by advanced collectors, with his "portrait" tobacco card the most prominent of the three classic Matty subjects issued by the ATC. Mathewson's unparalleled reverence is perfectly emanated via this classic Carl Horner headshot pose with his facial hues as vibrant as the original distribution date over a century ago. The T206 Mathewson portrait subject arguably depicts one of Matty's most defining poses from the "dead-ball" era, and you can literally sense his regal presence via the impeccable registration, crystal clear clarity and colorful brilliance emanating from this spectacular image.

Additional superlatives include a rich orange/yellow setting, bright white borders, right-angled corners and an extremely bold blue "Piedmont 150 Subjects" ad back. Preventing this card from achieving a higher grade is the skewed centering that favors the upper left edges as well as some diminutive surface scuffing along the left border. Yet these more than forgiving blemishes are more than offset by the card's overall brilliance that serves as a stout reminder of Matty's incomparable stature!

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

"Mathewson's unparalleled reverence is perfectly emanated via this classic Carl Horner headshot pose with his facial hues as vibrant as the original distribution date over a century ago."

"Yet these more than forgiving blemishes are more than offset by the card's overall brilliance"

When hyperbole and grammar/usage collide nobody wins.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

"Mathewson's unparalleled reverence is perfectly emanated via this classic Carl Horner headshot pose with his facial hues as vibrant as the original distribution date over a century ago."

"Yet these more than forgiving blemishes are more than offset by the card's overall brilliance"

When hyperbole and grammar/usage collide nobody wins.

Actually, if the winner of the lot thinks he's buying a legit 6 there are some clear winners: Memory Lane and the consignor. And weren't the scans very large and clear in the Memory Lane listing for this card? I think we're all so used to the typical fluffing and BS in auction descriptions that I can easily excuse ML for theirs here due to the great scans they put up. If you can't see the flaws on this card then overspending for this card -- which I consider to be an ugly 2 at best -- is the least of your problems.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I was just making fun of the awful writing. I think we're all agreed on the main point of the thread.

I do have a problem with hyperbole though. I would maintain that I put up pretty awesome scans on ebay and I still point out flaws, tell people when I think a card is over-graded etc... It's called honesty.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It would be so much better if people just put up good scans and spared us all the bullshit. I can see writing up memorabilia; I can see providing information about a rare or unusual card; but on mainstream cards no. It all reads like parody.

[pokerplyr80]

Thanks Greg for tracking that description down. About what I expected. This card reminds me of that psa 5 green cobb that the AH actually said had paper loss that seems inconsistent with the assigned grade.

I do agree with Jeff, the scans are clear and anyone spending more that 2 or 3 money on this card has no one but them self to blame. Except for the guy at PSA who gave it a 6 of course.

[botn]

Thanks for pointing out the prior sale, Jesse. True that anyone buying the card as a 6 has only themselves to blame but the description was more than just hype or fluff that we typically see. Classifying the surface gouge as diminutive is more than an exaggeration.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Actually, if the winner of the lot thinks he's buying a legit 6 there are some clear winners: Memory Lane and the consignor. And weren't the scans very large and clear in the Memory Lane listing for this card? I think we're all so used to the typical fluffing and BS in auction descriptions that I can easily excuse ML for theirs here due to the great scans they put up. If you can't see the flaws on this card then overspending for this card -- which I consider to be an ugly 2 at best -- is the least of your problems.

The buyer certainly wasn't a winner. Paid 3888 and sold for 3012. After fees that is a loss of more than 1200 unless he was shilling the card and ended up winning his own card.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by botn

Thanks for pointing out the prior sale, Jesse. True that anyone buying the card as a 6 has only themselves to blame but the description was more than just hype or fluff that we typically see. Classifying the surface gouge as diminutive is more than an exaggeration.

True, but I never expect an AH to be too critical of a card's flaws. Not good for the bottom line or the consignor. Any time a visible flaw is mentioned at all I assume it's worse than described. That's why that green cobb stood out to me. I have never seen another auction in which the site said a card did not deserve its assigned grade.

[botn]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

True, but I never expect an AH to be too critical of a card's flaws. Not good for the bottom line or the consignor. Any time a visible flaw is mentioned at all I assume it's worse than described. That's why that green cobb stood out to me. I have never seen another auction in which the site said a card did not deserve its assigned grade.

I have seen REA describe a card as not deserving the grade. Even if an auction house does not go that far, I do not recall regularly seeing one actually hype a card that is glaringly over graded. Maybe I do not read enough auction house descriptions or maybe I do not read them closely enough.

I do not expect an auction house to be too critical of its consignments but I do expect them to not misrepresent.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by botn

I have seen REA describe a card as not deserving the grade. Even if an auction house does not go that far, I do not recall regularly seeing one actually hype a card that is glaringly over graded. Maybe I do not read enough auction house descriptions or maybe I do not read them closely enough.

I do not expect an auction house to be too critical of its consignments but I do expect them to not misrepresent.

Perhaps I'm more cynical than you, but I expect anyone trying to sell me something, including an auction house, to gloss over an items flaws, and try to focus attention on the positive attributes. Creative wording to make a flaw seem less severe, while not completely honest, is pretty common from what I've seen on ebay and in AH descriptions. And is certainly not limited to our hobby.

If the description had read something like this card has major surface issues, is way off center, and looks trimmed as well as over graded I would have appreciated the honesty. However it would prevent me from considering them for my next consignment.

[Sean]

I started a thread in May about how overgraded some of the Cub HOFs were in that Memory Lane auction. I even called about the Joe Tinker batting card that appeared to have a fingerprint on the top of the card. The individual that I spoke with told me that "there is an issue with the top right border that probably kept the card from grading a seven."

Perhaps, but it still shouldn't have gotten a six either. It was more like a three.

[iwantitiwinit]

It resurfaces again for a mere $1500 more. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-T206-Ch...4AAOSwbmdZhdxt