T206 American Beauty backs, and trim

[Ericc22]

Greetings,

I've been exploring some of the unusual backs. I've noticed on some American Beauty T206s I've seen, that the cards are tightly trimmed on the sides. I understand that the cards were put into thinner packs so the cards had to be made thinner.

Is that the case? Is it typical to get tightly trimmed AB cards? I have also seen some that look balanced. Just wondering how much of a discount the tightly trimmed ABs go for if at all.

Any and all clarification would be most appreciated!

Eric

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Ericc22

Greetings,

I've been exploring some of the unusual backs. I've noticed on some American Beauty T206s I've seen, that the cards are tightly trimmed on the sides. I understand that the cards were put into thinner packs so the cards had to be made thinner.

Is that the case? Is it typical to get tightly trimmed AB cards? I have also seen some that look balanced. Just wondering how much of a discount the tightly trimmed ABs go for if at all.

Any and all clarification would be most appreciated!

Eric

Completely normal - they were cut thinner because the AB cig packs were thinner.

If you ever see a fat one, please post a scan - I've only seen skinny ones.

[fkw]

like Scott said, sharp ones always look trimmed.

if someone were to trim one, it probably wouldnt have any borders left on sides... though Ive actually never seen a trimmed AB card.

here is one that became an SGC50 (after I scanned it)



edited to fix scan and add another one

[Ericc22]

Thanks!

Frank, I did not see an attachment?

Here is one I found on ebay that suggests what I am wondering about. The fact that it is OC doesn't help. It is an SGC 50 so that's pretty good. Just curious as to whether this is unusual or typical for an American Beauty.

Thanks!

Eric

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130608388772...84.m1438.l2649

[FrankWakefield]

For almost 40 years I 'knew' that the AB cards were not as wide as the other cards, because the AB cigarette packages were narrower, and that the cards served an extra purpose of maintaining package shape and protecting the contents. A few years ago some folks suggested that the AB packs were not narrower, and that a normal size card would have fit in the packs. Scans were posted that convinced me of this. Ted Z has posted a scan of an AB pack with an AB card half out of it, and it is easy to see that the card seems unduly narrow for that package; it is in the "Please Show Your Backs & Packs" thread.

So I still know that most AB cards are narrower. This was an intentional cut. At this point I'm unsure why that is, but the narrower packaging doesn't seem credible to me anymore. I do know that if you spread a bunch of white border cards out on a table, and study them, a discerning eye can pick out the AB cards just by looking at the fronts.

[atx840]

Originally Posted by Ericc22

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130608388772...84.m1438.l2649

I put in a very low snipe and won, not sure if it is a true 50 but ill take it.

[Ericc22]

Hey Chris, nice snag. That was the one I noticed. Congrats on the card. Glad you got a good price on it. I'd be curious to know if that is a typical AB card. I assume it is, but just a bit off center.

Thanks and enjoy the card!

Eric

[atx840]

Thanks,

I am no expert on these, the 5 I own are all short side to side like this one. Most I see are slightly OC, possibly due to the original cut being off then the second cut even more so. No clue why they were double cut as the packaging does not look narrower.

[frohme]

There was a Net54 thread on this not so long ago, but search is not my friend tonight. The gist of it, IIRC, was that there are a number of cards in the AB realm that have relatively normal borders. I have no clue whether this was a general statement or if it only applied to certain instances of those cards.

My exposure was only to Pirates - the Leifield (350NF) and Miller (350F) seem about normal - the others were all much narrower.





--
Mike

[steve B]

There are also a few regular cards that are nearly AB narrow but aren't trimmed.

Like this one. I didn't notice how narrow it is till I got it back.

Steve B

[canjond]

The size of AB cards may be as simple as sheet configuration. Although the long standing rumor was the packs are narrower, resulting in a small width tot he cards, that is completely not the case. I have AB packs from 1905, 1908 and 1910. All are the exact same size, and all match the same dimensions as other T206 packs (ala Old Mill, SC, Piedmont, Sovereign, etc).

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by canjond

The size of AB cards may be as simple as sheet configuration. Although the long standing rumor was the packs are narrower, resulting in a small width tot he cards, that is completely not the case. I have AB packs from 1905, 1908 and 1910. All are the exact same size, and all match the same dimensions as other T206 packs (ala Old Mill, SC, Piedmont, Sovereign, etc).

Thanks, and apologies for keeping the rumor alive!

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by canjond

The size of AB cards may be as simple as sheet configuration.

Hi Jon - Based on the distribution and printing information I don't believe the sheet configuration for American Beauties were any different than other backs. Sheets were printed first with the front images and then had the backs added later. In the case of at least two, and possibly all three, of the AB backs, they were applied to a standard sheet that another back was as well, Broad Leaf, Cycle and Drum for example.

American Beauties were cut from a standard sheet and received at least one if not two more cuts to vertically thin the cards.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by canjond

The size of AB cards may be as simple as sheet configuration. Although the long standing rumor was the packs are narrower, resulting in a small width tot he cards, that is completely not the case. I have AB packs from 1905, 1908 and 1910. All are the exact same size, and all match the same dimensions as other T206 packs (ala Old Mill, SC, Piedmont, Sovereign, etc).

Jon

Is it possible that ATC was planning (circa 1910-1911) to market the American Beauty brand with a slimmer cigarette, which would have resulted in a narrower
(10-cigarette) pack ?

Therefore, American Lithographic, in anticipation of this, trimmed down all their American Beauty cards.







A full 10-pack of 100-year old cigarettes....and gee, am I tempted to light up one of these American Beauty's


TED Z

[canjond]

Ted- I guess anything is possible, but given the expense that would most likely have been involved in changing pack size, it's probably unlikely. Maybe ABs weren't printed by the ALC and whatever printer printed them, cut them a bit thinner?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by canjond

Ted- I guess anything is possible, but given the expense that would most likely have been involved in changing pack size, it's probably unlikely. Maybe ABs weren't printed by the ALC and whatever printer printed them, cut them a bit thinner?

The added expense factor you noted is a good point. If ATC had any plans to market a slimmer AB pack; but, decided against it. The first AB cards (with frame)
were issued in the Summer of 1910. Two subsequent series of AB's (no frame) followed....of which the AB 460's were available at the tail-end of the T206 press
runs in the Spring of 1911.

Given the close affiliation ALC had with ATC, the American Beauty brand was part of the ATC monopoly during this T206 era; therefore, it is certain that American
Lithographic (ALC) produced the AB cards. Furthermore, the fronts of the AB cards are identical to the other T206 brands. ALC pre-printed sheets of T206 fronts;
and, then printed the various T-brand backs as requests from the various tobacco Factory's were received at ALC.


TED Z