Not again! This is why I have a problem with PWCC!! Sorry for the rant!

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I am not the hater that some are, but we're setting the bar pretty low if the fact that they don't break one particular rule while, at the very least, being complicit in allowing others to be flouted, is enough to make them your exclusive ebay shopping destination. There are hundreds if not thousands of sellers, like myself, RobertW, Buythatcard, and many more that follow and enforce ALL the rules.

I love this....I run .99 cent auctions as well.......but the mere fact that my EXACT same card sell for HUNDREDS more with them than it will with me is sickening. I always thought Ebay was supposed to level the playing field, as long as all other metrics were outstanding (ie, fast shipping time, great packaging, etc.).

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I love this....I run .99 cent auctions as well.......but the mere fact that my EXACT same card sell for HUNDREDS more with them than it will with me is sickening. I always thought Ebay was supposed to level the playing field, as long as all other metrics were outstanding (ie, fast shipping time, great packaging, etc.).

PWCC probably spends 100k+ on advertising a year. How much do you spend?
And no, I am not good with retractions, but as I look around on ebay, Probstein and PWCC are not any worse than many others. I think Ebay needs to forbid more than 1-2 retractions a year. That would stop a lot of the shenanigans....Just like auction houses have very strict rules against retractions, so should ebay.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Leon

PWCC probably spends 100k+ on advertising a year. How much do you spend?
And no, I am not good with retractions, but as I look around on ebay, Probstein and PWCC are not any worse than many others. I think Ebay needs to forbid more than 1-2 retractions a year. That would stop a lot of the shenanigans....Just like auction houses have very strict rules against retractions, so should ebay.

I made the same point earlier. I don't begrudge them making more then me, there are some legitimate reasons for that along with the illegitimate ones. Frankly I don't measure my success against other companies or I'd just dig a hole, hop in, and pull the dirt in over me. I measure success against myself, or my standards. Why bother looking at their results if you know it's gonna tilt you?

As for retractions I've had some interesting legal discussions on here about them. If you accept a bid you legally HAVE to accept a retraction. However if someone has retracted bids in the past you are under no obligation to continue accepting their bids. This is in the UCC and is the law of the land nationwide. You cannot contract away your UCC rights either, so even if an auction house makes you sign something saying you can't retract a bid it is non-binding. The only thing they can legally do is refuse to accept your bid in the first place.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I made the same point earlier. I don't begrudge them making more then me, there are some legitimate reasons for that along with the illegitimate ones. Frankly I don't measure my success against other companies or I'd just dig a hole, hop in, and pull the dirt in over me. I measure success against myself, or my standards. Why bother looking at their results if you know it's gonna tilt you?

As for retractions I've had some interesting legal discussions on here about them. If you accept a bid you legally HAVE to accept a retraction. However if someone has retracted bids in the past you are under no obligation to continue accepting their bids. This is in the UCC and is the law of the land nationwide. You cannot contract away your UCC rights either, so even if an auction house makes you sign something saying you can't retract a bid it is non-binding. The only thing they can legally do is refuse to accept your bid in the first place.

Sellers can't stop them from retracting but they can also block them. I didn't say NO retractions, I just said that after so many, you would booted. So, in my scenario, ebay IS allowing the retraction. Then if it is your second one in a year Ebay should suspend or ban the user. I see no issue with that. Two retractions is plenty in a year (and more than most honest ebayers have in 10-15 yrs).

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

absolutely correct, you have to ban their bidding, not their retracting.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

absolutely correct, you have to ban their bidding, not their retracting.

So then they create a new account and start anew with a different email address.

[CrackaJackKid]

[QUOTE=Leon;1725111]PWCC probably spends 100k+ on advertising a year. How much do you spend?


So more Advertising leads to more eyes, more eyes lead to higher sales...
With technology the way it is today I don’t buy it. Past sales are readily available but yet a vast majority of bidders with them don’t abide by VCP cause they really want it and pay 20% over VCP....lol ok.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid

So more Advertising leads to more eyes, more eyes lead to higher sales...
With technology the way it is today I don’t buy it. Past sales are readily available but yet a vast majority of bidders with them don’t abide by VCP cause they really want it and pay 20% over VCP....lol ok.

Maybe a lot of their customers buy from them exclusively? Maybe they aren't even looking other places for the same card for a better deal? In that case, VCP is irrelevant.

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Maybe a lot of their customers buy from them exclusively? Maybe they aren't even looking other places for the same card for a better deal? In that case, VCP is irrelevant.

I will qualify by saying that I could be wrong, but I think that we are more educated than most collectors (present company excluded), and therefore, we look at the hobby through our prism. If I go back 5 years when I got back into the hobby, I saw plenty of advertisements for PWCC even before I joined this site. I then put them into my search on Ebay after seeing a couple of their auctions. As a result, I get a notification every time that their auction starts. I might not be looking for something specific, but I look at their auction every month and something might catch my fancy and I will make a bid. As time has gone on, my want list has gotten tighter and I tend to do the search by card, but at first, it was by the seller. In addition, in 2012, I had no idea what VCP was and figured if there were a lot of bids on a card, it was a good card and the price would actualize at the market rate.

My son has been doing some buying and selling of clothes and shoes on ebay while at college. Today, He called me and told me that he bought some high end jacket for $408 from a company and called me excited. I lectured him for a few minutes and he informed me that he would double his money. He then called me back 30 MINUTES LATER to tell me that he had sold it for $930 as a BIN. So, after fees, he cleared $429. I was happy for him and terrified at the same time because he will continue to do this. My point to him when I was lecturing him was "why would someone pay $930 when they could buy it themselves for $408?" His response was "Rich kids are lazy". This is probably a stretch, but I assume a perfect market and educated consumer and sometimes they just aren't.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

[QUOTE=CrackaJackKid;1725165]

Originally Posted by Leon

PWCC probably spends 100k+ on advertising a year. How much do you spend?


So more Advertising leads to more eyes, more eyes lead to higher sales...

With technology the way it is today I don’t buy it

You can refuse to "buy it" all you want, but there's an entire multi billion dollar industry predicated on that very idea.

[Luke]

Plenty of collectors are only online to bid because the PWCC auction is ending that night. PWCC auctions are an "event". Some guys that would have bid on your Lefty Grove just weren't aware of it because you didn't have 1000s of items ending that night to catch their attention.

It's really strange to me that anyone would expect that they can run like 15 auctions ending on a Sunday night and do as well as a juggernaut auction company. And that's just common sense without taking any of the other stuff into consideration.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Luke

Plenty of collectors are only online to bid because the PWCC auction is ending that night. PWCC auctions are an "event". Some guys that would have bid on your Lefty Grove just weren't aware of it because you didn't have 1000s of items ending that night to catch their attention.

It's really strange to me that anyone would expect that they can run like 15 auctions ending on a Sunday night and do as well as a juggernaut auction company. And that's just common sense without taking any of the other stuff into consideration.

Maybe it's because the search function works exactly the same for ALL sellers. It finds CARDS - the search feature could care less WHO is auctioning them off....if someone is searching for caramels, they would see PWCC's but not mine?? Sorry, I'm not buying it.

[Jeffrompa]

It’s all about the cards they get and the amount of cards they get ?

[Luke]

There's so much more to it than that. Bids will be higher across the board because so many more people are online during a PWCC auction ending night than another night.

Plenty of collectors are online bidding on a PWCC auction but wouldn't be there on a different Sunday when PWCC isn't ending.

Word of mouth also has something to do with it. With auction house stuff, people get excited and send messages to their friends. "Did you see ______ in the new _____ auction? Wow!"

That stuff doesn't happen for random sellers like you and I.