Deadball Hofer Collectible Popularity

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Posted By: Jerry

I know alot of it depends on the particular card or Issue but for deadball players how would you rank the top tier hofers as far as collectible popularity. I mean it seems Wagner has caught Cobb in popoularity. How do you rank mathewson against lajoie or Johnson. how does Cy young stack up. I would like to get your ideas in general popularity. Like I said I know alot depends on the particular issue but generally speaking. Mine would be
1. Cobb
2. Wagner (Close 2nd)
3. Mathewson
4. Cy Young
5. Johnson
6. Lajoie
7. Plank
8. Speaker
Where does Jackson fit in. I refuse to put him first.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Collectable-wise, Jackson ranks above Cobb. A lot this has to do with relatively rarity as much as Jackson's popularity.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Assuming that 19th century players are excluded from this listing, my vote is a dead heat among Cobb, Young and McGraw as the most significant Hitter, Pitcher and Manager of the period, and possibly any period. And Id have to vote for the Big Train over Matty - he won more games with a far lesser team. Then Id pick Speaker, who is way underrated. You can only downgrade Jackson so far for having "only" just under 5000 ABs. So he is next in my book.

The others are certainly top tier players, but not in the same league as these Big Six. imho.

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Generally agree with the first post. Here is my list leaving out players who debuted after 1911:

1. Cobb
2. Wagner
3. Young
4. Matty
5. Johnson
6. Alexander
7. Lajoie
8. Speaker
9. Plank
10. Waddell

Wagner and Young in particular seem to be ascending; both may eclipse Cobb someday (Wagner perhaps already has). Alexander is often overlooked since he just missed T206. Jackson would be at the top of my list if included in the discussion although I don't think his credentials warrant such a lofty position.

Scot

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Posted By: jay behrens

Wagner appraoches Cobb prices becuase he is found in fewer sets and befenits from the lore of his t206 card. The same goes for Jax. I'd put those 3 at the top in particular order. Then it would be Young, Johnson and Matty in the group. Plank gets a boost becuase of his t206 card.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: Josh K.

My ranking (excluding Jackson):

1. Cobb
2. Wagner
3. Johnson
4. Young
5. Matty
6. Alexander
7. Plank
8. Lajoie

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Posted By: d

Collectible popularity or Price??? Don't count out supply and demand.

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Posted By: andy becker

1. Cobb
2. Johnson
3. Jackson
4. Young
5. Wagner
6. Matty
7. Speaker
8. Lajoie
9. McGraw
10. Plank

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Posted By: Jerry

Andy, I can't believe you have Wagner all the way down to 5. The greatest Deadball national league player.

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Posted By: Henry Eshelman

1.Cobb
2. Wagner
3.Johnson
4.Matty
5.Young
6.Plank
7.Speaker
8.Lajoie
9.Jackson
10.Walsh

Thanks, Henry Eshelman

Website:www.freewebs.com/vintagebaseball

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Posted By: andy becker

jerry, what can i say??
i am partial to pitching, and even moreso to big train.
i honestly would rank jackson ahead of wagner (imo, honus is a bit over-rated) and i have a hard time ranking johnson too far ahead of cy.
cobb, imo, is in a league of his own. the next four on my list can be juggled....i suppose.
as far as pitchers go, i think walter and cy are on a different level than matty.

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Posted By: JimB

As mentioned, it depends A LOT on the issue, but in general I would rank them as follows:

1. Cobb
1. Wagner
1. Jackson
4. Mathewson
4. Johnson
4. Young
7. Lajoie
7. Speaker
9. Plank
10. McGraw

Same # represents a virtual tie that can only be distinguished by the issue and relative rarity.


Edited to place the three greatest pitchers from the era at a virtual tie. I had Matty a step ahead on first thought.

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Posted By: JimB

Honorable Mention: Addie Joss
JimB

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Posted By: James Feagin

1. Cobb
2. Wagner
3. Jackson
4. Mathewson
5. Young
6. Johnson
7. Anson
8. Plank
9. Lajoie
10. Speaker

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I would submit that Cobb's memorabilia is the most popular with collectors (I don't so much mean love versus hate, but in demand). However, as price is determined by both supply and demand, Jackson's memorabilia is more expensive as it is rarer.

In an unfettered market, price is the representation of scarcity, scarcity being determined by the supply versus the demand for it. This means that price alone is not itself a representation of popularity. Due to differences in items' populations, something can be more popular yet be less expensive (or less scarce).

It should be noted for clarity sake that 'rarity' is strictly a representation of the population of an item ('There are only 3? That's rare!'). Scarcity is not. As scarcity is determined by supply versus demand, something can be rare yet not scarce and something can scarce but not rare.

One-person-one-vote polls of popularty ('Okay, everyone gets to vote once for their favorite player') also don't exactly represent popularity or demand. This is because the one-vote-one-person identifies what a person likes or dislikes, but not the intensity of his like or dislike. And anyone who watches eBay bidding knows that unusually intense desire in only two bidders can create a substantially high price than bidding between fifteen bidders.

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Posted By: dd

Davidcycleback=totally accurate.

JimB...agree with HM of Joss, and would add Waddell & Keeler.

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Posted By: Brett

I like to collect as many HOFers from the t206 and caramels, like the e93, e98. if i had alot of $$$ i would go after more Rube Waddell and Addie Joss items. i'm still looking for that e93 Waddell

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Posted By: JimB

2nd Honorable Mention:
"Chief" Bender

JimB

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Posted By: JimB

Brett,
Though this one is not for sale, I think the E93 is one of his nicer cards.
JimB

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Posted By: Brett

The E93 Waddell has always been my favourite. It seems like everyone doesn't want to sell one.

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Posted By: Chris Counts

I'm a bit surprised by the lack of recognition for Eddie Collins. It seems to me he was at least as important and popular a player as pitchers like Waddell, Walsh, Joss, and Bender, as well as Keeler. And Plank seems a bit high to me ... is it because of the scarcity of his T206? It looks like a number of board members are just considering players from the t205 and t206 sets because Alexander only shows up on a few lists. I view him as closer to Matty and Johnson than the other pitchers mentioned. Also, I'm curious about Jim Thorpe. Certainly some cards must exist of him and they must be immensely popular. Does the fact he is in the football HOF qualify him for this list? ... the popularity of Dead Ball players and the passion we all have for them is really remarkable, especially considering none of us actually watched any of them play ...

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Posted By: Brett

I would try to collect Joe McGinnity cards, but he isn't in alot of sets. I could easily get the t206, e91 and i guess the c46, but the e107 i'd never be able to get.

Eddie Plank cards i'd alsolove to get, but the prices of his pre war cards are expensive. t206, e107. The e91, e93 and e95 cards seem to go for alot also. ( trying to find a e93 in poor shape but no luck )

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Posted By: jay behrens

Thorpe has only 2 cards by himself as a baseball player. He is in the Zeenut set and the m101-5 set. My m101-5 Thorpe is prized card of my collection.


Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: andy becker

jay, i never get tired of seeing the m101-5 thorpe. that card is high on my wantlist.
looks as if he's saying 'what are you lookin at??!!'
i like the fatima too....but he's soooo small.

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Posted By: John S

1) Cobb
2) Wagner (rising fast!)
3) Johnson (in my opinion he has moved past Young and Mathewson recently)
4) Mathewson
5) Jackson
6) Young
7) Speaker
8) Lajoie
9) McGraw
10) Marquard
10a) Tinkers, Evers, Chance

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Posted By: T206Collector

...and this is it. Why? Because it looks a little like the T206 Plank, which I'll never be able to afford. This was a low(er) cost alternative.

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Posted By: Lyle

1. Cobb
2. Jackson (fascination with "What might have been?"
3. Wagner
4. Matty ( perhaps propelled by his 1914 CJ card )
5. Johnson
6. Young
7. Lajoie ( should be higher IMO )
8. Speaker
9. McGraw
10. Plank

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Posted By: Zach Rice

Thorpe is also in the E270 Colgans Tin Top set.

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Posted By: cmoking

In the T206 set, the Cy Young cards go for more than the Christy Matthewson cards - given the same grade and same pop. However, it seems in other sets, Matty usually goes for more than Cy Young. Why is this?

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Posted By: Scot Reader

cmoking,

I'll offer a theory on this, which is that T206 attracts a mass audience relative to other prewar issues. This mass audience is on average not as schooled in baseball history as the more limited audience that collects other prewar issues, and therefore is not as familiar with Matty as it is with Young. The casual baseball fan who dabbles in T206 knows that Young is the guy whose name is on the award they give out every year. The hardcore baseball fanatic who has been piecing together his D-card set at a rate of two a year appreciates that Matty was inducted into the Hall of Fame before Young.

Scot

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Posted By: JimB

I think also that for some reason the pitching poses of Matty are undervalued currently. It may be partly because they are more common, but I must say that I have been surprised by the low numbers they have brought in relative to other T206 HOFs. The portrait though is now and always has been strong.
JimB

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Posted By: jay behrens

Andy, he grabbed a bat from the neighborhood kids and is chasing them off his lawn after they hit one too mnay balls into his yard.

Jay

I like to sit outside, drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home, I would be arrested. So, I go to baseball games and fit right in.