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  #1  
Old 03-29-2015, 07:50 AM
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Default The way auctions close?

It's interesting to hear collectors thoughts on the best way to end auctions (to maximize value). Many times I have fallen asleep, woke up, and continued bidding in the all night ones. What are your thoughts on auction endings? What do you think the best is to maximize prices?

One sentiment has been, the auctions ending altogether, all at once and very late, tend to help the whales with lots of money more than the other auctions ending lot by lot. However, what if the bidders were able to get extended payment terms to bid on more? Would that alleviate some of the issue? For me personally it's rarely been an issue as I figure out what I want most and have gone that route. A point for ending auctions lot by lot is that it keeps bidders interested the whole time. Your thoughts....?
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Old 03-29-2015, 08:01 AM
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Me personally, I hate auctions that end at 4:00-5:00 in the morning. Those definitely favor the west coast bidders at the expense of the east coasters. For the Love of the Game auction this morning, it was STILL going on when I woke up at 6:00 AM in the morning! I technically could have kept the bidding going, but Al shut the auction down even though the countdown clock was still winding down.

My favorite auction endings are Hunt, Legendary, and Huggins & Scott. Have each lot with their own 30 minute timer. Poop or get off the pot.

When you end auctions in the wee hours or definitive late times (Ebay ending in the early hours or a Net 54 live auction ending at midnight), you definitely lose out on the East Coasters bidding, which hurts your final price.
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Old 03-29-2015, 08:06 AM
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Never thought of it that way, by ending lot by lot. A buyer that misses out on a particular lot, htne has the opportunity to use that money he didnt spend and spend it on a different lot (if able)- meaning if he had a inital bid in, which prevents him from being locked out of that lot.
Personally i just put in what i am willing to pay and go to sleep and wait till next morning.
I actually just registered for gavelsnipe, today. Even tho its just for Ebay and HA., i should of used this a long time ago.
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Old 03-29-2015, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
Me personally, I hate auctions that end at 4:00-5:00 in the morning. Those definitely favor the west coast bidders at the expense of the east coasters. For the Love of the Game auction this morning, it was STILL going on when I woke up at 6:00 AM in the morning! I technically could have kept the bidding going, but Al shut the auction down even though the countdown clock was still winding down.

My favorite auction endings are Hunt, Legendary, and Huggins & Scott. Have each lot with their own 30 minute timer. Poop or get off the pot.

When you end auctions in the wee hours or definitive late times (Ebay ending in the early hours or a Net 54 live auction ending at midnight), you definitely lose out on the East Coasters bidding, which hurts your final price.

I generally agree with this sentiment, however this morning my dog woke me up at 5:30, wanting to go out. I checked in on LOTG and was able to come back and win an item that I had been outbid on overnight. So that was a good start to the day.

Generally though, I like the lot by lot 15 minute rule...
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Old 03-29-2015, 08:32 AM
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I guess as a buyer I'd prefer a lot by lot close. As a consignor I'm not so sure.
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  #6  
Old 03-29-2015, 08:48 AM
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Default Problems with both formsts

My biggest issue with the "lot by lot" format is it limits where I can spend my money if I get outbid late in an auction. For instance. I am far from being a whale. But last night there were a dozen or so of the old judges that I was interested in. I didn't have the funds to buy all the lots I was interested in so because I was winning 2-3 lots I was effectively blocked due to fund limitations from bidding on the other lots I was interested in.

In a B&L auction a few months ago the other lots I was interested in but not high bidder on closed while I was still winning my financial limit of cards. So, when I eventually got outbid on the lots I was winning and those lots exceeded my perceived fair market value I went to sleep with money in my pocket for next time. Money I would have been willing to spend on lots that I no longer had the ability to bid on because they had already closed. So, in my case the sellers lost money because I could not bid on cards when my funds became available late in the auction.

However, auctions like last night are a mess for us east coasters. I got outbid at 3:55 am. I was not willing to go higher for the lot I was tracking at that point but since I was sleeping I was unable to go see if I was willing to spend my money elsewhere. The auction closed and I still have my money in my pocket.

Both formats have issues. Both prevented me from being a buyer recently. The lot by lot format results in lower total sales prices in my opinion though. But as a small time player right now I'm probably better off on the BST now anyway.

Last edited by BleedinBlue; 03-29-2015 at 08:50 AM. Reason: Fixing typos
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Old 03-29-2015, 08:58 AM
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I can't stand auctions that end at 2-3 in the morning as I always end up bidding less than I would if said auction ended by the 15-20 min rule. If I was an auction house I would worry that the all auctions end at the same time rule would basically eliminate any bidding wars that might occur as most people won't stay up until 3-4-5 am so the advantage goes to the West coast bidders who just hold off on their bids until that time instead of forcing them to enter their bids earlier which in turn could trigger a bidding war, a la higher closing prices for auctions.
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Old 03-29-2015, 09:19 AM
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The 15-20 minute rule seems to extend an auction to the wee hours. How about after 10pm make it a 5 minute rule? Auction ends when there are no bids for 5 mins. At midnight if it is still going, make it a 3 minute clock.
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Old 03-29-2015, 09:27 AM
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Default Leon's question

One sentiment has been, the auctions ending altogether, all at once and very late, tend to help the whales with lots of money more than the other auctions ending lot by lot. However, what if the bidders were able to get extended payment terms to bid on more? Would that alleviate some of the issue?

Hi Leon,
One of your questions seems to have been overlooked by the previous posters. If I understand your question correctly, you are wondering if more bids would be generated if the winner did not have to pay right away. For instance, before the auction begins, a bidder could request a line of credit, and if the prices start to get high, more bids may be generated if the winners had more time to pay for the item. I think a lot of people might like that idea, although I wonder how it would affect the time in which consigners get paid.

Rick
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Old 03-29-2015, 09:35 AM
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I'll just say that the very late night (early morning?) closings have definitely kept a lot of my money out of consignors' and AH's hands. Perhaps if a lot of others here agree that might influence things....
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Old 03-29-2015, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buymycards View Post
One sentiment has been, the auctions ending altogether, all at once and very late, tend to help the whales with lots of money more than the other auctions ending lot by lot. However, what if the bidders were able to get extended payment terms to bid on more? Would that alleviate some of the issue?

Hi Leon,
One of your questions seems to have been overlooked by the previous posters. If I understand your question correctly, you are wondering if more bids would be generated if the winner did not have to pay right away. For instance, before the auction begins, a bidder could request a line of credit, and if the prices start to get high, more bids may be generated if the winners had more time to pay for the item. I think a lot of people might like that idea, although I wonder how it would affect the time in which consigners get paid.

Rick
Thank God for you Rick!! Everyone overlooked a potential (heck if I know for sure) solution to the problem. If anyone would care to also answer I would love to hear some views. All opinions are welcome. I am curious as a collector, resale buyer, seller, consignor, auctioneer.....need I keep going?

So if you could pay for winnings over 3-6 or more mos., would that be viable and level the playing field any?


.
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Last edited by Leon; 03-29-2015 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 03-29-2015, 09:45 AM
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As a buyer I prefer ending lot by lot but as a when consigning I prefer late auctions.
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Old 03-29-2015, 09:52 AM
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I'm a small time bidder but have often found myself asleep at the wheel. I really enjoy Sterling's auctions as you only need 1 bid to then bid on any item in extended bidding. There have been several times I've switched midstream when the prices have gotten hairy. I really dislike auctions that end during the week, mostly due to the late end times.

The AHs have to strike a balance between bidder and consignor. I can see having extended bidding go to 1 or 2 am EST. This gives all 4 time zones a chance to actively bid. These lots are posted for up to a month in some cases, there's no need to extend things to odd times of the night/morning. When's the last time an automobile auction ended at 4:30 am EST? Do you see estate sales at 3 in the morning? It just doesn't make sense. The premise for these late running auctions I guess is you get all 4 time zones to bid and then maybe get a few bids late. If we're talking big time items with min bid increments that's a lot of extra money.

If your livelihood depends on the sale of these items or you have an extreme obsession with an item than I guess you'll stay up to the wee hours, but I'm assuming most collectors have other commitments that keep them from devoting that kind of time to the hobby as they need to earn the money they plan on using to bid with. In those cases they'll set a max bid and be happy with it. We all know there are bidders out there who will go beyond their max when in the moment and those are the people the AHs lose out on.

I think a solution is a smaller amount of time without a bid. 15 minutes is a lot of time. This would help to move things along and keep things from going so late. At a live auction will an auctioneer say going once, wait 5 minutes, say going twice, wait 5 minutes, say going three times, wait another 5 minutes then say closed?
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  #14  
Old 03-29-2015, 10:23 AM
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I can't stand the way auctions close like they did last night. It's incredibly annoying to see the price stay the same for several hours of extended bidding, then you go to sleep at one am and wake up to see the final price has jumped after other bidders put in very late bids (probably after losing on other auctions).

My feeling is that if you're going to bid on something, bid on it. Declare thyself. I vastly prefer auctions in which the lots close individually.

I understand the issue, though, that those type of auctions preclude someone with a set amount of money to spend, but willing to use it for any of several different auctions, from switching their target after losing out in a different auction.

One idea might be to have staggered closings. In which the lots close one at a time, but at different times, and with much more limited extended bidding. That way if you're interested in lots 68 and 89, for instance, you could wait until 68 closed before deciding whether to bet on 89, but you would still know around when both auctions were going to close, and thus wouldn't have to stay up by the computer all night.

I haven't really thought this through so there might be problems with it. But I can honestly say that I doubt I'll bid on many more auctions like the one last night. Even though I won the item I was trying to get.
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by dog*dirt View Post
As a buyer I prefer ending lot by lot but as a when consigning I prefer late auctions.
Why? There's no evidence that closing auctions lot by lot reduce the $$$ a consigner gets. IF properly marketed and people understand the auction ends lot by lot, anybody bidding at 4am could make the same bid at midnight.

The reason auctions go so late is because the current auction format encourages people to stall late into the night hoping their competition will give up. I don't see how this helps the final price of lots.

Yes, I understand there are particular scenarios where in a lot by lot format you can't bid on everything you want and may lose out on things but I feel a lot more is lost by consigners from people who would otherwise bid just giving up. I understand you can use max bids but there are plenty of downsides to that as well.

I am a big fan of lot by lot auctions as mentioned previously.

jeff

Last edited by jefferyepayne; 03-29-2015 at 10:27 AM.
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Thank God for you Rick!! Everyone overlooked a potential (heck if I know for sure) solution to the problem. If anyone would care to also answer I would love to hear some views. All opinions are welcome. I am curious as a collector, resale buyer, seller, consignor, auctioneer.....need I keep going?



So if you could pay for winnings over 3-6 or more mos., would that be viable and level the playing field any?





.

In the case where there is a huge item (E105 Cobb for example ) up for auction, I could see myself taking advantage of a payment plan. But the question is: Does the AH take the risk and pay the consignor immediately after auction close, or does the consignor have to take the risk and wait for full payment?
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
The reason auctions go so late is because the current auction format encourages people to stall late into the night hoping their competition will give up. I don't see how this helps the final price of lots.
Agreed.

Leon, I don't know if it would change my bidding if the AH was to extend payment terms but I know I would not want to wait for my money as a consignor, or maybe have someone back out from payment down the road leaving who owes what to whom. If the AH wants to take on the risk of those problems, maybe by paying the consignor in full immediately and taking some sort of vig on extended payments then that would be different.
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:49 AM
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Jeff,

It's just my experience, last night I went to sleep at 1:00 AM Eastern time, when I awoke my consignments closed at $700 above the level it was when I went to sleep. That was on multiple items bid up by $25-50 increments.

However, you do bring up good points and I very well may be wrong.
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Thank God for you Rick!! Everyone overlooked a potential (heck if I know for sure) solution to the problem. If anyone would care to also answer I would love to hear some views. All opinions are welcome. I am curious as a collector, resale buyer, seller, consignor, auctioneer.....need I keep going?

So if you could pay for winnings over 3-6 or more mos., would that be viable and level the playing field any?


.
I personally like the idea, Leon. There were at least two cards that I would have kept going on last night if I was able to extend the pay period. That said, I'd trust myself to put the money away over the extended period (for me, it's more of avoiding the wife's wrath in spending so much all at once ). I would worry about everyone making good on their bids. People tend to be optimistic about finances when you can push it out 3-6 months. I could see AH's running into situations where the winning bidder just can't come up with the funds, even with the extended time period.

Not sure how you'd screen folks to qualify...
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:52 AM
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Somebody needs to come up with a system that forces bidders to place bids early. It isn't as if it takes until 6:00 AM for all the bids to be placed and processed, it's really that bidders feel no pressure to bid before the wee hours of the morning. And they do wait. Instead of placing their bids early, they try to wait until the last possible minute, hoping to catch a competitor sleeping, or to get a last bid in before the auction finally closes.

This is silly. Most of the time between 10:00 PM and 6:00 AM is dead time. Nobody seems to want to tackle this, but with so many auctions taking place these days, how many times can bidders be counted on to stay up all night? And bidders who have to eventually go to sleep are bidders who aren't bidding, so the auction house is leaving some amount of money on the table. You ideally want everyone to get all their bids in before they quit, not go to sleep because they can't stay up any longer. How many times to we hear of bidders willing to go another increment, but they fell asleep and when they awoke the auction already ended. It's a flawed system.
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:54 AM
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I personally like the idea, Leon. There were at least two cards that I would have kept going on last night if I was able to extend the pay period. That said, I'd trust myself to put the money away over the extended period (for me, it's more of avoiding the wife's wrath in spending so much all at once ). I would worry about everyone making good on their bids. People tend to be optimistic about finances when you can push it out 3-6 months. I could see AH's running into situations where the winning bidder just can't come up with the funds, even with the extended time period.

Not sure how you'd screen folks to qualify...
Maybe 25% down, terms on the rest....good ole credit and/or reference check. Only very good to excellent risks needs apply. Be responsible (right?). Someone once told me that our credit score is akin to an adult financial report card. I never forgot that one.
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:57 AM
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Leon- as for the payment plan- Would it be better to have the buyer use a Credit Card. Then you can surcharge a fee on that.
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Thank God for you Rick!! Everyone overlooked a potential (heck if I know for sure) solution to the problem. If anyone would care to also answer I would love to hear some views. All opinions are welcome. I am curious as a collector, resale buyer, seller, consignor, auctioneer.....need I keep going?

So if you could pay for winnings over 3-6 or more mos., would that be viable and level the playing field any?


.

What's the difference between selling cards you don't own and buying cards you can't afford. This is beginning to sound like the "American" way, Washington style. I will be paying for my next B & L Auction winnings with my 2017 tax refund, I promise, provided the national debt doesn't double by then and Social Security remains solvent. And if I break my hip, the deal is off.

Please ship my items by registered mail and fully insured as soon as possible using your buyer's premium and don't forget to send tracking numbers.

Sincerely Yours,

N. "Sol" Vent
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:10 AM
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There are very few ways for an auction house to get into financial trouble, but extended payment terms is one. I agree with the poster who said in lieu of extended payment terms to take credit cards or PayPal. Let the financial professionals take the credit risk. Concentrate on what you know how to do.
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:43 AM
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what's the difference between selling cards you don't own and buying cards you can't afford. This is beginning to sound like the "american" way, washington style. I will be paying for my next b & l auction winnings with my 2017 tax refund, i promise, provided the national debt doesn't double by then and social security remains solvent. And if i break my hip, the deal is off.

Please ship my items by registered mail and fully insured as soon as possible using your buyer's premium and don't forget to send tracking numbers.

Sincerely yours,

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Last edited by wolf441; 03-29-2015 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:44 AM
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Default extended payment plans

I think the extended payment plans would work well if set up right. They seem to help PWCC for Ebay sales. Some may argue that there are other reasons they get such high prices, but I think their payment plans are a large incentive to buyers. I do not know the terms they offer for buyers/sellers, except it is only for higher dollar items. I would buy more from an AH that offered this service.
Would it be legal to require a minimum deposit that would be split with the consignor and AH if the buyer later defaulted? That might make it less of a PITA for both. Also, could the consignor have a say in offering that option to buyers? Some might need the money faster.
As far as auction ending times. I want to pay the least as a buyer and get the most as a seller. Has any real research been done on this?
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:55 AM
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As a small time buyer, I agree I would utilize a line of credit for a larger purchase. In the past I've had individual sellers hold an item while I saved up the money to pay, but from an auction house prospective I think this could be dangerous if the buyer backs out. Then again I don't think it would be too much different than the buyer simply not paying.

One way I've seen an auction house (can't recall which, maybe clean sweep?) discourage later bidding is to have an increasing buyers premium. The way it works was if you put your max bid in before 10pm you paid a 15% premium, between 10-11pm a 16% premium. Between 11-12pm, a 17% premium and so forth. No matter if your bid was increased later in the night, you are locked into the premium set when you put the bid in. This allows people to switch to a different lot but at the same time it encourages them to bid earlier so they can pay a lower premium.

DJ
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:59 AM
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Default Auction closings

Clean Sweep tries to combat late night closings by increasing the buyer's premium after 1:30 am and I believe increases every half or full hour after that.

That system still creates a snipe situation. A few lots I really wanted in past auctions I would make a bid at 1:29 so if anyone would bid after me would have to pay a larger buyer's premium. So far that has been successful each time.

Ultimately see no real solution that all would agree with.
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Old 03-29-2015, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by barrysloate View Post
Somebody needs to come up with a system that forces bidders to place bids early. It isn't as if it takes until 6:00 AM for all the bids to be placed and processed, it's really that bidders feel no pressure to bid before the wee hours of the morning. And they do wait. Instead of placing their bids early, they try to wait until the last possible minute, hoping to catch a competitor sleeping, or to get a last bid in before the auction finally closes.
I don't think a lot of sniping occurs that is based on 1 person's knowledge and the lack of others, so I have a hard time understanding why the wait, other than when your limit is reached on a specific item you want to spread your money elsewhere. So what's the problem if that limit is reached sooner? Earlier bidding is better for the AH and consignor.

How about a BP discount/penalty? Up to the last day of the auction, the BP is the AH standard BP. The last day of the auction, BP+. When it gets into extended bidding, BP++. Determining exact amounts is left as an exercise for the student.

(another non-perfect solution)
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Old 03-29-2015, 01:32 PM
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As a buyer, I just don't want any particular card (s) bad enough to stay up watching these auctions all night. I put it my max bid with the AHs i trust and go to bed. I don't bid with the ones I don't trust. If the closings happened at a normal time, i would get involved, but the current system seems pretty much insane to me.
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Old 03-29-2015, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Leon View Post
[...]

So if you could pay for winnings over 3-6 or more mos., would that be viable and level the playing field any?


.
Heritage offered this for a while (not sure if they still do). You could be pre-approved and get an extended 4-month payment period, same as cash If I recall (though recollection ain't what it was). I think you had to pay at least 1/4 of the total each month, but don't know for sure as I never used it.

Found the link. http://www.ha.com/c/ref/extended-payment-terms.zx

--
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Old 03-29-2015, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by barrysloate View Post
Somebody needs to come up with a system that forces bidders to place bids early. It isn't as if it takes until 6:00 AM for all the bids to be placed and processed, it's really that bidders feel no pressure to bid before the wee hours of the morning. And they do wait. Instead of placing their bids early, they try to wait until the last possible minute, hoping to catch a competitor sleeping, or to get a last bid in before the auction finally closes.
Green Jacket auctions which specialized in golf memorabilia has a giveaway that usually rewards 10-15 bidders with winning a free prize.

You get one entry for any bid made on any lot for a period of two days which is early in the auction.

This obviously drives the price up quickly on some lots, but it also cuts out the last minute bidding on stuff. With a chance to win two masters practice round tickets or even just a Masters Flag, you would be amazed at how many bids take place.

It seems to work well for them... and I personally would like to see some other auction houses try something similar...I am sure any of the larger ones could easily pony up a couple grand in material as giveaways...particularly with the fees they are charging on both ends.
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Old 03-29-2015, 03:23 PM
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As a buyer, I just don't want any particular card (s) bad enough to stay up watching these auctions all night. I put it my max bid with the AHs i trust and go to bed. I don't bid with the ones I don't trust. If the closings happened at a normal time, i would get involved, but the current system seems pretty much insane to me.
Exactly. If you place 5-6 max bids and go to bed, only to find out they all were topped at 3:45 a.m., then your money slept. But if they were topped earlier because the auction was ending sooner, you might still get that urge to win something and extend your max bid(s), particularly if you saw they were all topped and you adjusted your goal to just trying to win one or two.

Barry is right "And bidders who have to eventually go to sleep are bidders who aren't bidding, so the auction house is leaving some amount of money on the table." Saying that night owls bid late doesn't mean: a) they would not have bid earlier if required to by the rules and b) doesn't account for money lost from those who went to sleep while still willing to spend.
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Old 03-29-2015, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Thank God for you Rick!! Everyone overlooked a potential (heck if I know for sure) solution to the problem. If anyone would care to also answer I would love to hear some views. All opinions are welcome. I am curious as a collector, resale buyer, seller, consignor, auctioneer.....need I keep going?

So if you could pay for winnings over 3-6 or more mos., would that be viable and level the playing field any?


.

There have been several times where I've wished I could do exactly that!!!

A six-month maximum window seems to me to be a good time frame.

Steve
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Old 03-29-2015, 04:34 PM
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Default Auction endings

They should end the auctions in the afternoon on the East coast. Let extended bidding rules begin at around 4 or 5pm. After midnight, bidding should only continue on active lots. *I was up until 1:30 EST last night, winning three lots, woke up and was outbid on all. Poor me
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Old 03-29-2015, 04:47 PM
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They should end the auctions in the afternoon on the East coast. Let extended bidding rules begin at around 4 or 5pm. After midnight, bidding should only continue on active lots. *I was up until 1:30 EST last night, winning three lots, woke up and was outbid on all. Poor me
Common sense answers like that do not belong on this forum!
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Old 03-29-2015, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartyFromCANADA View Post
They should end the auctions in the afternoon on the East coast. Let extended bidding rules begin at around 4 or 5pm. After midnight, bidding should only continue on active lots. *I was up until 1:30 EST last night, winning three lots, woke up and was outbid on all. Poor me
As tongue in cheek as this statement is, the reality is there is no such thing as an East Coast auction. There are MANY west coast auctions however.
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:53 PM
Bosox Blair Bosox Blair is offline
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Well, I have lived on the Atlantic coast and the Pacific coast, so I do understand where all the sentiments are coming from.

Putting all that aside, I'm fine with how all the various auctions work. As long as the rules are made clear to everyone from the get-go, it is fair game.

People always assume is is easy (or easier) for West coast people to stay up until very late hours to place late bids. It isn't. And obviously East coast people are free to sleep between 10PM and 3AM and then get up with the benefit of 5 hours sleep to rejoin the late bidding. Why is that presumptively impossible? Frankly I don't think that is any harder than forcing yourself to stay up until an unusually late hour with no sleep on the West coast.

My point - if you know the rules, you have no excuse...work with the rules.

(Not to mention the ability to leave max bids, but I leave that out of the piece for now since I'm just as averse to it as most others...even though I trust Al...)

Cheers,
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Old 03-29-2015, 06:12 PM
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I am mostly a memorabilia and autograph collector, but as someone who just in the past 2 years joined a few auction sites that advertise here (before that mostly ebay, dealers and shows) I can say I hate auctions that end in the early morning.
I am still mad at an item I lost at Lelands last year. Was my first time bidding with them. I was bidding on something and was winning, below my max bid also, and stayed up to about 3am. It was way too late for me, and I figured since there was no action on the lot for like two hours, I would win it and went to bed. Woke up in the morning and sure enough I lost it. I probably would have bid a little higher, but I was a sleep. Still bugs me.
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Old 03-29-2015, 07:07 PM
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As tongue in cheek as this statement is, the reality is there is no such thing as an East Coast auction. There are MANY west coast auctions however.
Wrong. LOTG ended at about 6am eastern. Goodwin has ended that late (early) as well. At the age most of us are you're much more likely to be up at 6am on the east coast than I am to be up at 3am on the west coast.
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Old 03-30-2015, 09:50 AM
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I like the item-by-item closing approach and think Dave Schrader's way of doing it is pretty decent. Every lot has a fixed closing time so it's either bid or get out. I think perhaps the 30 seconds between lots might be a tad short especially if you are bidding on a couple of lots that close one after the other and might need some more time to rethink your strategy.

Letting auctions run until 6:00 AM (or whatever) the next day just seems crazy to me.
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Old 03-30-2015, 11:51 AM
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I would close the auction lot by lot. I would also get rid of the 30 minute or 15 minute reset. 5 minutes is enough. In my case, I would place more bids with more collector friendly rules. I'm not going to stay up all night to bid on a card.

As is, I'll just place a bid if I really want something and if I get out bid in the middle of the night , I don't win, the auction house leaves money on the table. There was a card Sat night that I was interested in, but I chose to not even bid because of the rules. The card sat at the same price for a long time, but after I went to bed, someone came in and won the lot.
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Old 03-30-2015, 12:14 PM
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I think we simplify these auction rules à la

Cones of Dunshire
cones.JPG

or

Pile of Bullets
pile.JPG

In all seriousness, 5 minute bid intervals sounds good too.
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Old 03-31-2015, 04:18 PM
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I was thinking about this to see if there was a way to combine the best options for both the all lots at once closing method and the each lot closes on its own way. The advantage for the each lot closes individually is that you don't need to stay up all night to figure out if you've won the lot. However, if there are 10 lots that you are interested in, and you only have a certain budget, then you may end up not bidding on certain lots in order to try to get the ones you want. However, if you end up losing those lots, you usually can't go back to your other lots, because those lots have also closed by that time. You can do this for the auction where all lots close at once, but you usually can't go to sleep either.

This may be too complicated, but what if you set up these rules:

(1) You must place an initial bid before extended time in order to bid on that lot during extended time and after.

(2) On the closing day of the auction, you have a longer extended time, say from 7pm EST - 10pm EST. All lots in the auction stay open during this time. However, if there are no new bids on a lot during this extended time, the lot immediately closes once extended time is over.

(3) When extended time is finished, all lots that received a bid during extended time enter the 30 minute individual lot by lot closing method. As usual, if the lot does not receive a bid after 30 minutes, the lot closes. Otherwise, the 30 minute timer resets.

The advantage of this is that it allows auctions that don't have may bids to just close early. You realize what you have won and can use that information in the next extended time. The disadvantage of course is confusion on what lots are going close at what time.

A similar idea is do the all lots close at one time with the 30 minute rule but with a tweak.

(1) As before, you must place an initial bid before extended time in order to bid on that lot during extended time and after.

(2) On the closing day of the auction, you have your extended time start at 8pm EST with the thirty minute rule. However, the timer does not reset after 30 minutes. Instead, the first extended session ends after 30 minutes, e.g., 8:30pm EST. All lots that received a bid during extended time will be open during the next 30 minute extended time from 8:30pm - 9pm EST. If there were no bids, the lot would close. This would continue for multiple extended sessions, where hopefully more and more lots would close. At a set time, say 11pm EST, the extended sessions would be shortened to 15 minutes. Then at 1am EST, it would again be shortened to 5 minutes.

This method may give buyers more clarity on whether they've already won an item or the price is now above their max bid, so they have the option to move onto other lots. Or it could cause mass chaos and confusion since bidders again may not know which lots are closing at what time.
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Old 03-31-2015, 05:33 PM
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My 2 cents:

I think the best auction style to maximise returns for the consigner is string style - one after the other. If one missed out on an early item, then one might be more inclined to go for the later item. Example: I was watching an ebay auction of 3 game used bats, each ending on a seperate day. The bats were same player, same model, no material differences between them. The first went for $160, the next $200, the last one $230. There was clearly an element of desperation as the options dwindled.

As for payment - I really don't see a better option than credit card. Bump the premium if cost is an issue, but if the buyer doesn't have a credit card, I wouldn't trust them on in house credit anyhow.
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Old 03-31-2015, 05:42 PM
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I keep a list of auctions that close individual lots if no bids have been made on that item for some amount of time. I'm afraid the only way the status quo is going to change is if people start voting with their dollars and further supporting auction houses who don't close all at once at insane hours of the night.

Here's my list. Let me know if I'm missing anybody.

Baggers
Brockelman & Luckey
Bussineau
Heritage
Huggins & Scott
Joe’s Vintage Sports Cards Auctions
Legendary Auctions
Mears Auctions

jeff
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Old 03-31-2015, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jefferyepayne View Post
I keep a list of auctions that close individual lots if no bids have been made on that item for some amount of time. I'm afraid the only way the status quo is going to change is if people start voting with their dollars and further supporting auction houses who don't close all at once at insane hours of the night.

Here's my list. Let me know if I'm missing anybody.

Baggers
Brockelman & Luckey
Bussineau
Heritage
Huggins & Scott
Joe’s Vintage Sports Cards Auctions
Legendary Auctions
Mears Auctions

jeff

This is a joke, right? Please tell me this is a joke. There's no possible way you could be suggesting that you, or any other human, should be boycotting auctions that aren't on your list, but should bid with freaking Legendary. Please tell me that's not a serious post. Please?

With all the fraud in the hobby and all the shady practices, you're going to vote with your dollars based on the manner in which an auction house closes? I wonder how much extra voting you did with your dollars by getting shill bid by scumbag auction houses over the years. But I guess at least you got to bed early.

I'm not saying any auction house has a perfect way of closing and dealing with the extended bidding period (a perfect way does not exist), but to take a stance like this when there is rampant fraud which you can't pretend you're not aware of, is absolutely insane.

-Ryan
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Old 03-31-2015, 09:49 PM
begsu1013 begsu1013 is offline
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a lot of people use snipe services for ebay, but not sure if they work on auction house sites.

however, this is a very interesting thread and good question. I very rarely sell but ironically enough, actually have my first auction going on right now on my backup pete rose set (shameless plug) and have set it to start and end this Sunday from 10ish - 11:30ish, est. Lots are ending about 3 minutes apart w/ a few 5 mins breathers in there. I also set it for a 10 day listing. Again, just testing my theory and naturally curious to see how she ends up.

from a buyers perspective, it seems that Sunday's around this time always bring in the bigger pay days as it's not necessarily too late for the east coasters or too early for the left coasters.

On the other hand, I have also noticed that some people have followed this guideline not realizing it's Superbowl Sunday and subsequently gotten 3 deals of the century due to this "personal theory".

edited to add: as for the line of credit question, I think it would be a good thing to extend credit for up to 6 months on a certain level of a purchase. ie, "sir, i'm sorry i cant finance your 86 topps traded otis nixon psa 7". what might be an even better idea is to have a customer that might like that extension apply for pre-approval PRIOR to the auction. even then you have a decision to make as a consignor/auction house: a. do you extend the credit yourself, keep the card until it's paid off and make a lil side money on interest w/ the possibility of keeping all payments if the purchaser defaults. or b. simply outsource your customers to a credit company (however it could still be called "leon's credit co" and make additional funds on the "referral" basis. basically you write the note and get their credit limit approved by ABC credit and then ABC credit buys the debt. and to answer your question in full on either a. or b. i have always been a proponent of the steve miller monetary theory: "go on, take the money and run".

Last edited by begsu1013; 03-31-2015 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 04-01-2015, 05:06 AM
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I like auction houses that end the bidding after a period of time when no bids are placed for each individual item. I also like the idea of ending an item that only has 1 bid prior to the extending bidding time. However, I understand that this doesn't always maximize the price for the consignor or the AH.

But isn't it fair to say, if you really, really want an item, you are going to stay engaged until the item is hammered or you have reached you maximum bid?

Jeff
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Old 04-01-2015, 07:06 AM
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I'm not sure how credit solves any problems; it just creates many more potential serious ones - much more serious than folks trying to stay awake. Bidders don't need another tool to over extend themselves; their credit cards are enough.
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