1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 8 in PWCC Auction

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

A comment was made in a thread I read last night about the range of alterations and what is okay and what isn't okay. I for one as I have said was surprised when I learned that soaking and spooning were all deemed acceptable so it is clear there is a wide range of opinions on what constitutes alteration.

Huh? Spooning deemed acceptable? Where did you read that? I don't think anyone on this forum deems spooning of cards an acceptable practice.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Huh? Spooning deemed acceptable? Where did you read that? I don't think anyone on this forum deems spooning of cards an acceptable practice.

It's ok with a significant other though.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's ok with a significant other though.

But I like forking a whole lot better

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Huh? Spooning deemed acceptable? Where did you read that? I don't think anyone on this forum deems spooning of cards an acceptable practice.

I read just yesterday someone say they have read plenty of times that spooning out a wrinkle is okay.

Using chemicals on cards as long as they don't smell after has been stated as okay.

I would have never dreamed that the same crowd that is upset would be okay with that.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I read just yesterday someone say they have read plenty of times that spooning out a wrinkle is okay.

Using chemicals on cards as long as they don't smell after has been stated as okay.

I would have never dreamed that the same crowd that is upset would be okay with that.

The majority of people saying it is OK are the ones doing it.

[Rich Klein]

One Note on 1952 Topps Mantles. Remember Al Rosen found that cache of unopened 1952 Hi #s circa 1986. Those cards almost all came out clean and sharp and I could tell whenever I saw a find card at shows for the next few years. This card could be (and may well be) an absolutely legit 8.

Regards
Rich

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I read just yesterday someone say they have read plenty of times that spooning out a wrinkle is okay.

Using chemicals on cards as long as they don't smell after has been stated as okay.

I would have never dreamed that the same crowd that is upset would be okay with that.

Yes, I know which comment you are referring to and I think he was just talking out of his a** when he made that statement about everyone being OK with spooning cards.

"Hi, I'm Bob, and I think it's totally OK with spooning cards! I just spooned my 51' Bowman Mantle last night! Wanna' see it? Hehe!"

Have you ever read anything like that on here, David? I haven't and I've been on here for quite a while.

And I also don't believe that people on this forum would be OK with soaking cards in chemicals. Some of these chemicals can turn your card brittle and then you know what happens next, right?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Yes, I know which comment you are referring to and I think he was just talking out of his a** when he made that statement about everyone being OK with spooning cards.

"Hi, I'm Bob, and I think it's totally OK with spooning cards! I just spooned my 51' Bowman Mantle last night! Wanna' see it? Hehe!"

Have you ever read anything like that on here, David? I haven't and I've been on here for quite a while.

And I also don't believe that people on this forum would be OK with soaking cards in chemicals. Some of these chemicals can turn your card brittle and then you know what happens next, right?

Cleaning with chemicals is generally regarded I would think as a lesser offense than trimming and recoloring, with crease removal somewhere in between, but it's all bad in my opinion.

[MULLINS5]

CONSERVING is defined as: a careful preservation and protection of something

PRESERVATION is defined as: to keep safe from injury, harm, or destruction : protect.

RESTORING is defined as: to return (something) to an earlier or original condition by repairing it, cleaning it, etc.

FRAUD is basically defined as: intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value

When you send your cards in to PSA/SGC/BGS you are CONSERVING your valuables by having them encased. Shellacking a baseball was intended to CONSERVE.

Brent and possibly Moser bought cards, cracked them out of their slabs, RESTORED them and then committed FRAUD by not disclosing the work they did.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

One Note on 1952 Topps Mantles. Remember Al Rosen found that cache of unopened 1952 Hi #s circa 1986. Those cards almost all came out clean and sharp and I could tell whenever I saw a find card at shows for the next few years. This card could be (and may well be) an absolutely legit 8.

Nobody has said that this card has any issues. Only that it's bizarre they would use PWCC to sell it at this moment.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Nobody has said that this card has any issues. Only that it's bizarre they would use PWCC to sell it at this moment.

1000% AGREED!!! A Heritage purchase to an Ebay flip in under 5 months. And to sell it on Ebay thru a seller who is currently embroiled in a scandal. Seems like awful timing to me.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

1000% AGREED!!! A Heritage purchase to an Ebay flip in under 5 months. And to sell it on Ebay thru a seller who is currently embroiled in a scandal. Seems like awful timing to me.

Bobby you probably have VCP. If you do how many PSA 8 Mantle's have been sold in a public forum in the past 12 months?

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Yes, I know which comment you are referring to and I think he was just talking out of his a** when he made that statement about everyone being OK with spooning cards.

"Hi, I'm Bob, and I think it's totally OK with spooning cards! I just spooned my 51' Bowman Mantle last night! Wanna' see it? Hehe!"

Have you ever read anything like that on here, David? I haven't and I've been on here for quite a while.

And I also don't believe that people on this forum would be OK with soaking cards in chemicals. Some of these chemicals can turn your card brittle and then you know what happens next, right?

I am no expert on any of this and just read what people have to say. As I said it seems that some of these methods that I would think constitute alteration are accepted by some and once you go from virgin cards to an attempt to improve their appearance you have started the process and there doesn't appear to be a 100% consensus on the matter.

[wondo]

Could be a buying opportunity.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Is anyone else tired of the narrative that "if you don't think or act exactly as I do, you must inherently be less intelligent than I am?"

Yes

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Bobby you probably have VCP. If you do how many PSA 8 Mantle's have been sold in a public forum in the past 12 months?

According to PSA's auction prices tracker, three PSA 8's, and one PSA 8.5 have sold (all via Heritage Auctions) in the last 12 months.

Steve

[Steve D]

I don't know what this means, but now, when you go to PWCC's website, this PSA 8 1952 Topps Mantle no longer shows up.

Steve

[Dpeck100]

It is gone.

Perhaps this thread caused someone to change their mind.

[GasHouseGang]

According to VCP the latest PSA 8 Mantles since the beginning of 2017:

2/24/19 Heritage $456,000
11/16/18 Heritage $430,200
8/19/18 Heritage $420,000
5/6/18 REA $300,000
2/24/18 Heritage $360,000
11/17/17 Heritage $408,000
8/20/17 Heritage $384,000
5/6/17 Memory Lane $462,000
2/25/17 Heritage $660,000

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

The consignor might be aware of the current situation and not care. It could be a planned sale. It could be sold for a number of reasons.

This scandal is going to blow over just like every storm in the hobby has up to this point.

I am surprised so many people think this is going to be the demise of high grade trading cards.

The 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle is the ultimate symbol of Americana and the price might be higher or it might be lower but you are never going to see the demand for this card evaporate.

There are some who have been calling for PWCC to cancel all of their auctions and others who hope Brent ends up in jail. This might be the ultimate FU saying we still get the goods.

One revelation from this recent situation we have confirmed is that you can use a hidden reserve on PWCC auctions so the odds of this going cheap are quite low I believe.

This card will bring a ton of money, just watch....

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

It is gone.

Perhaps this thread caused someone to change their mind.

right all of the people piping in were going to only bid 350k on it...

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Is anyone else tired of the narrative that "if you don't think or act exactly as I do, you must inherently be less intelligent than I am?"

I thought that replaced buy the card not the holder as the new net54 motto. The posts criticizing fellow collectors for how they choose to spend their money are getting old as well.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

It is gone.

Perhaps this thread caused someone to change their mind.

If true that's a shame. I highly doubt those commenting in this thread were bidding any way. It's usually good for the market when big cards like that go to auction. I think it would have done well.

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I highly doubt those commenting in this thread were bidding any way.

Maybe if someone else was selling it.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

If true that's a shame. I highly doubt those commenting in this thread were bidding any way. It's usually good for the market when big cards like that go to auction. I think it would have done well.

Because most of us already have one here.

The more you see, the more you know that Brent Mastro is a common criminal. Nothing really special just a high tech crook.

He is a effing idiot of biblical proportions and if people want to continue to spend their $$$ with him, feel free. You earned it the old fashioned way by not ripping people off, so go ahead. This is America and we can do what we want. Happy 4th of July!

I personally will not buy another baseball card period probably until the day I die or Brent Mastro is behind bars. That's just the way I roll.

And to the guy who mentioned about Autographs...I stopped that nonsense 4 years ago when e-bay stopped pulling fakes and let 90% forgeries enter the market unchecked.

Though it's difficult to stop because I've loved it for 50 years, I try to stand for right and wrong. This Bullshit that Brent Mastro has been pulling is flat out wrong no matter how you slice it and I'm not going to be party to the ridiculousness of the hobby.

I won't sell them just like the autographs, they will sit. Only 150K wrapped up in them both, so it's not the end of the world and it was fun for a time. Now there is more money for fake benjamins, fake cars and maybe some more fake gold.

it is no longer fun when criminals dominate the hobby. You guys go right ahead and enjoy the ass poundings though.

[CW]

What the hell does Brent Mastro have to do with this current scandal, and why does his name continue to be brought up in these threads?

[Johnny630]

It’s gonna be very very difficult to prove ..........imo prob will not be criminally prosecuted
PSA Zero chance
PWCC Zero chance
Doctor Zero Zero Zero chance
They’ve got nothing...

Business as usual ....This hobby is the wild wild best always has been always will be...up to buyer to be smart :-)

We all know this and will be fine :-)

[Republicaninmass]

I Have to disagree. I see someone, ie doctor or pwcc getting nabbed for trimming, something related to this, fraud, money laundering, etc

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by CW

What the hell does Brent Mastro have to do with this current scandal, and why does his name continue to be brought up in these threads?

The original "Bad Actor" who was arrested was BILL Mastro (of Mastro Auctions...)

The term "BRENT Mastro" was coined by Chuck, as a nickname for Brent Huigens of PWCC. The inference being that they are both guilty of criminal wrongdoing within the hobby.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Is anyone else tired of the narrative that "if you don't think or act exactly as I do, you must inherently be less intelligent than I am?"

Well, no, because the truth is never tiresome. Though I do often forget to be patient with people who are slower and dumber than I am, but I am working on it.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

Because most of us already have one here.

The more you see, the more you know that Brent Mastro is a common criminal. Nothing really special just a high tech crook.

He is a effing idiot of biblical proportions and if people want to continue to spend their $$$ with him, feel free. You earned it the old fashioned way by not ripping people off, so go ahead. This is America and we can do what we want. Happy 4th of July!

I personally will not buy another baseball card period probably until the day I die or Brent Mastro is behind bars. That's just the way I roll.

And to the guy who mentioned about Autographs...I stopped that nonsense 4 years ago when e-bay stopped pulling fakes and let 90% forgeries enter the market unchecked.

Though it's difficult to stop because I've loved it for 50 years, I try to stand for right and wrong. This Bullshit that Brent Mastro has been pulling is flat out wrong no matter how you slice it and I'm not going to be party to the ridiculousness of the hobby.

I won't sell them just like the autographs, they will sit. Only 150K wrapped up in them both, so it's not the end of the world and it was fun for a time. Now there is more money for fake benjamins, fake cars and maybe some more fake gold.

it is no longer fun when criminals dominate the hobby. You guys go right ahead and enjoy the ass poundings though.

I can print you up some fake $300s if you want to sell your cards. Grovers are way better than Benjamins.

[CW]

Originally Posted by perezfan

The original "Bad Actor" who was arrested was BILL Mastro (of Mastro Auctions...)

The term "BRENT Mastro" was coined by Chuck, as a nickname for Brent Huigens of PWCC. The inference being that they are both guilty of criminal wrongdoing within the hobby.

Ah, I see, thanks for explaining.

Not confusing at all.

[pokerplyr80]

Even if most commenting here already have a 52 Mantle, which I find unlikely, I doubt more than 1 or 2 would consider bidding on this card regardless of the venue. I own one, but certainly can't afford an 8.

Cards of this caliber don't change hands that often, and even when they do I'd bet more often than not they do so privately. It would be a shame if a site that should be promoting the hobby is actually discouraging the public sale of such an important card.

[swarmee]

It should be sold by an honest seller, or at least one that hasn't been exposed yet. You make me laugh.

[samosa4u]

Originally Posted by swarmee

It should be sold by an honest seller, or at least one that hasn't been exposed yet. You make me laugh.

I agree. With all this sh*t that's going on, Brent should not be selling ANY cards right now.

[MULLINS5]

I was in the market for a 1952 Topps PSA 7 or 8 Mantle.

[Republicaninmass]

But he gets

So many high grade cards,
Highest prices for eye appeal
So many eyeballs
Secure packing



Who could possibly fill that void?

[MULLINS5]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

But he gets

So many high grade cards,
Highest prices for eye appeal
So many eyeballs
Secure packing



Who could possibly fill that void?

1- because they're altered
2- because he stickers the altered and shills
3- because he pays for puff pieces
4- got nothing there, ha

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

It should be sold by an honest seller, or at least one that hasn't been exposed yet. You make me laugh.

It's OK as long as you highly overpay from a very questionable seller.

[Johnny630]

Here is the bottom line in my book;
His company will be fine.... he buys back the bad cards....PSA then buys them back from him and updates the Pop End of Story ...... Hush Hush Hush
People Forget and Many Don’t Know Or Could Care Less
They Beat Goes On
End Of Story

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Here is the bottom line in my book;
His company will be fine.... he buys back the bad cards....PSA then buys them back from him and updates the Pop End of Story ...... Hush Hush Hush
People Forget and Many Don’t Know Or Could Care Less
They Beat Goes On
End Of Story

As we say in the south, "Bless your heart!"

[Steve D]

Anyone remember WIWAG?

The current happenings will basically go the same way.

Steve

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by CW

What the hell does Brent Mastro have to do with this current scandal, and why does his name continue to be brought up in these threads?

http://www.sportscardradio.com/

Scroll down a bit

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

I am no expert on any of this and just read what people have to say. As I said it seems that some of these methods that I would think constitute alteration are accepted by some and once you go from virgin cards to an attempt to improve their appearance you have started the process and there doesn't appear to be a 100% consensus on the matter.

is it that you are missing the point entirely or is it going over your head? I'm not sure.

It's not whether or not it's acceptable.... It's CRIMINAL without disclosing it PERIOD.

That's the point. Head, Point. I made a funny son.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I can print you up some fake $300s if you want to sell your cards. Grovers are way better than Benjamins.

That's Hilarious, Ben... Your good with that computer for sure!!!!!

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

is it that you are missing the point entirely or is it going over your head? I'm not sure.

It's not whether or not it's acceptable.... It's CRIMINAL without disclosing it PERIOD.

That's the point. Head, Point. I made a funny son.

I see so all of the collectors on this forum who have soaked cards or cleaned them have disclosed that to buyers. I seriously doubt that.

[Buythatcard]

So, if PWCC buys back the bad cards, what happens to these cards? Are they destroyed? Are they relisted along with a disclosure that they have been doctored? Do they work with PSA to update the POP reports:? Are they sent back to Moser to clean them up a little more?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

So, if PWCC buys back the bad cards, what happens to these cards? Are they destroyed? Are they relisted along with a disclosure that they have been doctored? Do they work with PSA to update the POP reports:? Are they sent back to Moser to clean them up a little more?

PSA has updated the Pop Report what they do with the cards is up to speculation

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

So, if PWCC buys back the bad cards, what happens to these cards? Are they destroyed? Are they relisted along with a disclosure that they have been doctored? Do they work with PSA to update the POP reports:? Are they sent back to Moser to clean them up a little more?

The 1952 Bowman Stan Musial PSA 10 was removed from the PSA pop report. It originally sold for over $25,000. They are supposedly being held "for law enforcement", but neither PWCC or PSA will say which agency/agencies they're supposedly working with.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by swarmee

The 1952 Bowman Stan Musial PSA 10 was removed from the PSA pop report. It originally sold for over $25,000. They are supposedly being held "for law enforcement", but neither PWCC or PSA will say which agency/agencies they're supposedly working with.

So, if the person who works for law enforcement is a collector himself, he or she might end up with some highly graded cards.