OT - Patriots Deflate Report

[bcbgcbrcb]

In my opinion, based on the league findings, the Patriots victory in the playoff game tarnished with the deflated footballs should mean that the Patriots forfeit that win. Thus, they lose their Super Bowl victory over Seattle as they obviously won't have been in the game to begin with. That's what happens to Olympic gold medalists that have been found to have cheated.

That would put a stop to this type of thing happening again in the future real fast. Forget about a small fine on the team and/or Tom Brady. Maybe disqualifying them from postseason play in the 2015-2016 season might do the trick as well..........

[conor912]

If they had hard proof, I would 100% agree....but this "they likely probably kinda sorta perhaps knew" BS is just plain stupid. Besides, there's no way a slightly deflated ball gives them a 30+ point advantage, no matter how you slice and dice it.

[nolemmings]

You are referring to a preponderance of the evidence standard, the one used in US civil cases for 200 years.

Oh, and the week before the Indy game, when the Ravens believed the Pats used the same tactic, New England trailed most of the game, winning in the last 5 minutes 35-31 with Brady having one of his best post-season games (360 yds, 33 completions and 3 TDs). Probably had no effect there either, right? The team that texts showed had deflated balls throughout the early season and whose equipment guy referred to himself as the Deflator before the season started I'm sure did nothing of the sort in that playoff game.

[conor912]

Todd, I live in Seattle. I am in no way defending NE...but OJ probably killed Nicole too. If the proof's not there, it's not there.

[nolemmings]

You truly have no understanding of what you speak. Sad really.

[KCRfan1]

Most are making WAY too big of an issue over this.

[tsalem]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

Most are making WAY too big of an issue over this.

Ya think?!

Vikings heating balls on the sidelines...
Falcons pumping noise into the stadium...
Browns GM texting plays down to the coach...
Dolphins clearly tampering with SUH before the start of free agency
It goes on and on , yet you hear nothing about these things.

When it comes to the Pats, it's a media frenzy on such a minor issue. When your on top for as long as them, everyone is out to get them.

[clydepepper]

Can we please move this discussion to the watercooler?

[oldjudge]

Much ado about nothing. To me this has less significance than George Brett's pine tar bat incident.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by tsalem

Ya think?!

Vikings heating balls on the sidelines...
Falcons pumping noise into the stadium...
Browns GM texting plays down to the coach...
Dolphins clearly tampering with SUH before the start of free agency
It goes on and on , yet you hear nothing about these things.

When it comes to the Pats, it's a media frenzy on such a minor issue. When your on top for as long as them, everyone is out to get them.

I think a lot of it has to do with track record more than jealousy. Spy gate was a black eye on the franchise, and while this is a small thing, it appears that Brady was either lying or covering up his involvement. If ball inflation is such a small deal, then why deny?

[itjclarke]

Just let this die already!

... many of the above listed examples have far greater effect on a game (including added PA noise) and/or are more serious team/upper management violations. Add my Niner's "probably, likely, inappropriate" cap practices during the mid '90's to the list of far greater "probably" crimes.

[jhs5120]

Honestly, I think the Patriots exploited a brilliant loop hole and deserve some credit for it. I'm a Redskins fan with absolutely no ties for to the Pats, but after this whole fiasco and witnessing Brady and Bellicheck's complete disregard for the rules I started to root for them. Seriously, they outsmarted the system and won. I say good for them.

[7nohitter]

The balls used in the second half were different...and Brady threw up even more points. The rest of the country is JEALOUS of 15 years of success.

Is anyone upset with Rodgers who admits he over inflates the footballs?

No? Really?

Then be quiet.

[TUM301]

It`s all a plot by Belichick and Brady, "the whole world hates us boys and it`s us against the world". Really though it looks like the NFL wanted to nail the Pats and they did. Brady gets a 2 game suspension, it`s reduced to one, and the Pats get fined around 250 K. So for the Thursday nite opener the Pats are minus Brady and the Steelers will be down Levon Bell. Jimmy Garap. goes 18/26 for 265 yds and 2 TD`s.

[ZachS]

As a Saints fan, I just want to see Goodell punish someone else for a change.

[bcbgcbrcb]

Since the NFL went through such great lengths to investigate this, might as well hand out a punishment commensurate with the investigation.

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

The balls used in the second half were different...and Brady threw up even more points. The rest of the country is JEALOUS of 15 years of success.

Is anyone upset with Rodgers who admits he over inflates the footballs?

No? Really?

Then be quiet.

+1. Yup, a little air out of the footballs and filming defenses. That's why they've been so good for 15 years. Belichick is playing chess while the rest of the league is playing checkers. Neither Belichick or Brady pays any lip service to the national media and that's why ESPN, the NFL Network, etc... all have an agenda to beat them down with the morality stick. Brunell crying on the air about Brady flouting the integrity of the game? He should be crying over his mediocre career....

I guess since all of their tricks have been found out, the Pats will certainly go 6-10 next year....either that, or we'll win yet another division title.

Haters gunna hate.

[7nohitter]

Originally Posted by wolf441

+1. Yup, a little air out of the footballs and filming defenses. That's why they've been so good for 15 years. Belichick is playing chess while the rest of the league is playing checkers. Neither belichick or brady pays any lip service to the national media and that's why espn, the nfl network, etc... All have an agenda to beat them down with the morality stick. Brunell crying on the air about brady flouting the integrity of the game? He should be crying over his mediocre career....

I guess since all of their tricks have been found out, the pats will certainly go 6-10 next year....either that, or we'll win yet another division title.

Haters gunna hate. :d

truth!

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Since the NFL went through such great lengths to investigate this, might as well hand out a punishment commensurate with the investigation.

Maybe the NFL can also go back to 2007, challenge the Tyree catch on the basis that all five of the Giants O-Linemen were holding on the play and negate that Super Bowl win for the G-Men.

Oh, and if that play happened to the Patriots, everyone would be screaming that Brady was in the grasp and the play should have been blown dead.

Just sayin....

[calvindog]

I'm more upset about the idiotic pass call at the end of the Super Bowl than I am about the under-inflated balls. The NFL should investigate Pete Carroll's brain.

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Much ado about nothing. To me this has less significance than George Brett's pine tar bat incident.

Love GB in KC!!!!!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I'm more upset about the idiotic pass call at the end of the Super Bowl than I am about the under-inflated balls. The NFL should investigate Pete Carroll's brain.

That will go down in history as possibly the worst call of all time. I couldn't believe it. Carroll should be proud of himself.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Leon

That will go down in history as possibly the worst call of all time. I couldn't believe it. Carroll should be proud of himself.

I think possibly the worst call in the history of sports. It was that bad.

[Orioles1954]

Who knows if the deflation gave them a competitive advantage or was simply a result of testing the balls. What matters is that they, mainly Brady, clearly lied to investigators about knowledge of efforts to deflate footballs. That is what requires some amount of disciplinary action on the part of the NFL.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Who knows if the deflation gave them a competitive advantage or was simply a result of testing the balls. What matters is that they, mainly Brady, clearly lied to investigators about knowledge of efforts to deflate footballs. That is what requires some amount of disciplinary action on the part of the NFL.

+ 1

I can't believe some people actually defend their actions.

Great lesson for kids: It's ok to cheat if everybody else does it, no matter how minor it may seem or how much impact it has.

[Runscott]

Some of the logic used in this thread is baffling.

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

+ 1

I can't believe some people actually defend their actions.

Great lesson for kids: It's ok to cheat if everybody else does it, no matter how minor it may seem or how much impact it has.

Why should the sports lesson for kids be any different from what we show them in business (i.e. finance, oil, pharmaceutical, politics, etc...)? The most successful people in all of these fields are the ones that push the rules right to the edge of the law. There was nothing in the Wells report that explicitly demonstrated that Brady said "hey guys, I want you to break the rules of the game...".

[byrone]

From the good folks at The Onion



NFL Investigating Whether Patriots Played Game With Properly Inflated Vince Wilfork





http://www.theonion.com/section/sports/

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

+ 1

I can't believe some people actually defend their actions.

Great lesson for kids: It's ok to cheat if everybody else does it, no matter how minor it may seem or how much impact it has.

I find it no different than old school pitchers hiding Vaseline on their bodies or using a bottle cap to scratch up the ball. It's ingenuity to me. Whitey Ford, Gaylord Perry, Don Sutton and Tommy John have all admitted to it. Some of the greats back in the day used to do it as well.

Heck, Mickey Mantle and Pete Rose have been thought to use corked bats. I think it's fun watching players try to get away with these things.

[tsalem]

Ok, so 3 of the 4 balls tested from the Colts were also underinflated but the refs didn't have time to check the rest of them because it was time for the 2nd half to start. WOW!
Also, the way I read it, Brady had overinflated balls (I think it was during a Jets game) at almost 16psi. I'm sure he wanted them "deflated" - but to say he wanted to cheat and set them below the 12.5 level - I see no proof.

Maybe i'm wrong but I just don't see the smoking gun here

[packs]

I know Brady and the Patriots are trying to pass this off as a non-issue, but in all seriousness you obviously under inflated the ball because it gave you an advantage you didn't have when the ball was properly inflated. That to me is the key issue.

You can't change the past but the NCAA does make a habit of stripping titles to prove a point. I don't think the NFL can turn back the clock in the same way. But I do think the Patriots should be losing a ton of draft picks in the coming years and Brady should be suspended. They suspended Josh Gordon for almost a full year for smoking weed. Brady should get at least the same punishment for cheating.

[tsalem]

Originally Posted by packs

I know Brady and the Patriots are trying to pass this off as a non-issue, but in all seriousness you obviously under inflated the ball because it gave you an advantage you didn't have when the ball was properly inflated. That to me is the key issue.

You can't change the past but the NCAA does make a habit of stripping titles to prove a point. I don't think the NFL can turn back the clock in the same way. But I do think the Patriots should be losing a ton of draft picks in the coming years and Brady should be suspended. They suspended Josh Gordon for almost a full year for smoking weed. Brady should get at least the same punishment for cheating.

3 of the 4 balls tested from the Colts were also underinflated but the refs didn't have time to check the rest of them because it was time for the 2nd half to start.

[packs]

11 of 12 tested footballs from the Patriots side were under inflated.

None of them were under inflated 2 hours before the game when they were checked by officials. NFL rules state that the footballs cannot be altered once they've been approved for game use. So here we have clear evidence of cheating.

[tsalem]

Originally Posted by packs

11 of 12 tested footballs from the Patriots side were under inflated.

None of them were under inflated 2 hours before the game when they were checked by officials. NFL rules state that the footballs cannot be altered once they've been approved for game use. So here we have clear evidence of cheating.

So why do you think 3 of the 4 Colts balls were underinflated?

[ZachS]

Originally Posted by tsalem

So why do you think 3 of the 4 Colts balls were underinflated?

That "well they were doing it too" defense didn't work for the Saints.

[wolf441]

Maybe the Pats over-inflated Seattle's ball before their last offensive play of the Super Bowl....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNf8wT5t8V8

[ZachS]

Maybe they overinflated Pete Carroll's big dumb head.

[ALR-bishop]

Remember the first rule

Although given the play call, maybe that is more of a fact than an opinion

[nolemmings]

Great lesson for kids: It's ok to cheat if everybody else does it, no matter how minor it may seem or how much impact it has.

No, the lesson here to kids is this: Never admit you did anything wrong, never.

First, claim the rule you broke is a stupid rule anyway.
Next, claim that breaking the rule did not help you, and you'd be in the same position either way.
Next, argue some law of science to explain that the effect of your rule-breaking is really a natural phenomenon.
Next, when shown that you committed an intentional, willful act to get around a rule, claim to the idiot crowd, which in this country is huge, that there is no smoking gun, signed confession, or HD quality video of your wrongdoing and thus there is no "proof".
At the same time, argue that there must be a conclusive, beyond a reasonable doubt finding that you broke the rule or else you did nothing wrong (thus showing your complete lack of understanding of how our system of justice functions as well as displaying at least a flawed set of ethics--never mind, though, the Law and Order viewers will have your back).
Next, throw it back on your accuser by claiming they're just jealous and always had it out for you (ain't deflection great?) and
Most of all, just make sure you keep on lying about it and that you keep your stories straight, because again rule #1

NEVER, EVER ADMIT YOU DID ANYTHING WRONG. There you go kids--words to live by.

[packs]

Tsalem, how do you respond to the text messages between Patriots equipment managers directly referencing under inflating the footballs for Tom Brady? Are they fabricated? Even though they came directly from their own phones and can be easily verified by the carrier?

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

No, the lesson here to kids is this: Never admit you did anything wrong, never.

First, claim the rule you broke is a stupid rule anyway.
Next, claim that breaking the rule did not help you, and you'd be in the same position either way.
Next, argue some law of science to explain that the effect of your rule-breaking is really a natural phenomenon.
Next, when shown that you committed an intentional, willful act to get around a rule, claim to the idiot crowd, which in this country is huge, that there is no smoking gun, signed confession, or HD quality video of your wrongdoing and thus there is no "proof".
At the same time, argue that there must be a conclusive, beyond a reasonable doubt finding that you broke the rule or else you did nothing wrong (thus showing your complete lack of understanding of how our system of justice functions as well as displaying at least a flawed set of ethics--never mind, though, the Law and Order viewers will have your back).
Next, throw it back on your accuser by claiming they're just jealous and always had it out for you (ain't deflection great?) and
Most of all, just make sure you keep on lying about it and that you keep your stories straight, because again rule #1

NEVER, EVER ADMIT YOU DID ANYTHING WRONG. There you go kids--words to live by.

+1

Death, Taxes and the Patriots Cheating.

[calvindog]

Clearly the Pats cheated. Clearly Brady lied. Clearly they received an unfair advantage. And just as clearly the NFL doesn't have the balls to take those wins away. That being said, I'd like to see Brady suspended for a few games for lying to the investigators and the Pats lose a first round pick. (For the record, I have no problem with the Pats or Brady -- I'm a Giants fan, we love Brady)

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Clearly the Pats cheated. Clearly Brady lied. Clearly they received an unfair advantage. And just as clearly the NFL doesn't have the balls to take those wins away. That being said, I'd like to see Brady suspended for a few games for lying to the investigators and the Pats lose a first round pick. (For the record, I have no problem with the Pats or Brady -- I'm a Giants fan, we love Brady)

I agree. I don't think the NFL should take those games away. What would it accomplish? Do you think when shady college football programs have their wins stripped after the fact that it means a hill of beans to the teams they screwed over?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tsalem

Ok, so 3 of the 4 balls tested from the Colts were also underinflated but the refs didn't have time to check the rest of them because it was time for the 2nd half to start. WOW!
Also, the way I read it, Brady had overinflated balls (I think it was during a Jets game) at almost 16psi. I'm sure he wanted them "deflated" - but to say he wanted to cheat and set them below the 12.5 level - I see no proof.

Maybe i'm wrong but I just don't see the smoking gun here

I think we should throw out the 144 page report and go with your paragraph above. Clearly you have a much better idea about what happened. Thanks for sharing - you saved me having to read the sports page today.

[packs]

Tsalem can you respond to my question about how there are text messages between equipment managers specifically referencing under inflating footballs to Brady's liking? What's your stance on that? Pretty damning, no?

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

No, the lesson here to kids is this: Never admit you did anything wrong, never.

First, claim the rule you broke is a stupid rule anyway.
Next, claim that breaking the rule did not help you, and you'd be in the same position either way.
Next, argue some law of science to explain that the effect of your rule-breaking is really a natural phenomenon.
Next, when shown that you committed an intentional, willful act to get around a rule, claim to the idiot crowd, which in this country is huge, that there is no smoking gun, signed confession, or HD quality video of your wrongdoing and thus there is no "proof".
At the same time, argue that there must be a conclusive, beyond a reasonable doubt finding that you broke the rule or else you did nothing wrong (thus showing your complete lack of understanding of how our system of justice functions as well as displaying at least a flawed set of ethics--never mind, though, the Law and Order viewers will have your back).
Next, throw it back on your accuser by claiming they're just jealous and always had it out for you (ain't deflection great?) and
Most of all, just make sure you keep on lying about it and that you keep your stories straight, because again rule #1

NEVER, EVER ADMIT YOU DID ANYTHING WRONG. There you go kids--words to live by.

A big +1

I just don't understand the justifications people are making. I think the people that should be most disappointed are Patriot fans themselves but I haven't heard a single Pats fan do that. About the guy above saying that 3 of the Colts balls failed too... Way to manipulate the facts! They had two separate people test the balls and one found all 4 at 12.5 or above, the next found that three were below 12.5 by exactly .15, .20 and .35 respectively (I believe these measurements were after having played a half of football, too). You are seriously grasping at straws to equate that to the Patriots balls that hovered right around 11 for the most part (one even measuring 10.5)

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

A big +1

I just don't understand the justifications people are making. I think the people that should be most disappointed are Patriot fans themselves but I haven't heard a single Pats fan do that. About the guy above saying that 3 of the Colts balls failed too... Way to manipulate the facts! They had two separate people test the balls and one found all 4 at 12.5 or above, the next found that three were below 12.5 by exactly .15, .20 and .35 respectively (I believe these measurements were after having played a half of football, too). You are seriously grasping at straws to equate that to the Patriots balls that hovered right around 11 for the most part (one even measuring 10.5)

I'm not a Patriots fan, but I have found myself defending them through this ordeal for some reason.... I guess I just think it's not a big deal.

I think they cheated. I think they were given an advantage from their cheating. I think they lied about cheating. I think they made efforts to conceal their cheating from the investigator(s). But I just don't think it's a big deal. People are throwing out random PSI measurements as if that means anything and are describing the differences of a football with 12 psi, 12.5 psi and 13 psi as if they know what they're talking about. This is no different than the "spit ball" in baseball and that pitch has been celebrated over the years (even though it is illegal). I seriously cannot see the difference.

[perezfan]

Plus there is evidence that the deflation issue took place for at least a dozen games, leading up to the Colts game. For anyone that's tried to pass or catch a "rock hard" football in frigid conditions, the inflation level makes an enormous difference. Perhaps even more so for the kickers (which you never hear being discussed for some reason...)

I agree with Rhett, that Pats fans should be the angriest and are the most betrayed of the bunch. But unfortunately in sports these days, people tend to equate their own success (and sense of self-worth) to the teams and players that they worship. Turning a blind eye is not really surprising to me, for this reason. Would love hear just one Partiots Fan express some outrage and defy the masses...

[tsalem]

Originally Posted by packs

Tsalem, how do you respond to the text messages between Patriots equipment managers directly referencing under inflating the footballs for Tom Brady? Are they fabricated? Even though they came directly from their own phones and can be easily verified by the carrier?

Your calling me out to answer your questions when you can't answer mine..

Anyways, unless I missed it or read it wrong, my take was the balls were around 16 psi in the Jets game and he wanted them deflated. He was not asking them to under deflate the balls below the 12.5 PSI.

The big problem here in my opinion is the Wells report itself. The way it is written, he/they left so many things unanswered. There are holes everywhere and you can interpret things the way you see fit.

I am not saying Brady is innocent or guilty but i'm sure he will let the process run its course and we will all probably know more down the line.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

Most are making WAY too big of an issue over this.

Said the Joker to the Thief...