First time I’ve been ripped off

[jonvancouver]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Normally, I would agree, but it is the 4th of July weekend. The guy has been on here forever, let's give him a chance to respond.

I wholeheartedly agree. It is my belief that he was completely taken when the ball was sold to him, and now he is too proud to admit it. If that isn't the case, then he is a complete scam-artist. He put the ball in an era, and it ends up not being from that era so those are really the only two explanations as to how that could happen.
Look, at the end of the day it isn't 5K or 10K, so I can at least be thankful for that. That being said, I wanted to get as much info on the ball as possible because I was proud to have something like that in my collection. When I sit in my baseball room with my 5 year old son, we talk about the history of the game, and we handle the items because that's how we enjoy it. It's not enjoyable to show him the ball that I got ripped off on.

I gave him a chance to take that out. When I originally emailed him I said that the ball isn't what WE thought. That gives him the out to say "crap, well I must have been lied to when I bought it so return it for a refund and I'm sorry" or some iteration about that.
Instead he said that Brandon doesn't know what he's talking about.
Then I emailed him the PDF reference to show the different Goldsmith logos and their years of usage.
Then he responds that he can refund me the difference after his other ball sells in October.
Then I tell him that it's a little much for me to have to wait until October for a refund.
His response was “No. You made the deals we all win and lose sometimes you're going to have to wait”

THAT is where he crossed the line with me.

It's 100% unacceptable.

[slidekellyslide]

Is the cover of that ball canvas? It knid of appears so which would make it a more a kids playground or carnival type ball. Either way the logo proves it to be much later than what it was sold to you as and you deserve a full refund on it.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

Normally, I would agree, but it is the 4th of July weekend. The guy has been on here forever, let's give him a chance to respond.

Well, he was on the board as of 9 PM CDT tonight, he may not have seen this post, but he was here.

[jonvancouver]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Is the cover of that ball canvas? It knid of appears so which would make it a more a kids playground or carnival type ball. Either way the logo proves it to be much later than what it was sold to you as and you deserve a full refund on it.

Brandon said that it is canvas. Also of note, he said that it would have been a regular ball that was bought from the equivalent of todays Dicks Sporting Goods.

[jonvancouver]

Double post by mistake.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by jonvancouver

I wholeheartedly agree. It is my belief that he was completely taken when the ball was sold to him, and now he is too proud to admit it. If that isn't the case, then he is a complete scam-artist. He put the ball in an era, and it ends up not being from that era so those are really the only two explanations as to how that could happen.
Look, at the end of the day it isn't 5K or 10K, so I can at least be thankful for that. That being said, I wanted to get as much info on the ball as possible because I was proud to have something like that in my collection. When I sit in my baseball room with my 5 year old son, we talk about the history of the game, and we handle the items because that's how we enjoy it. It's not enjoyable to show him the ball that I got ripped off on.

I gave him a chance to take that out. When I originally emailed him I said that the ball isn't what WE thought. That gives him the out to say "crap, well I must have been lied to when I bought it so return it for a refund and I'm sorry" or some iteration about that.
Instead he said that Brandon doesn't know what he's talking about.
Then I emailed him the PDF reference to show the different Goldsmith logos and their years of usage.
Then he responds that he can refund me the difference after his other ball sells in October.
Then I tell him that it's a little much for me to have to wait until October for a refund.
His response was “No. You made the deals we all win and lose sometimes you're going to have to wait”

THAT is where he crossed the line with me.

It's 100% unacceptable.

I got to an age when people say they will 'pay AFTER this or that' (in this case after he sells a ball in October) i just dont ever accept anymore....we probably here the old 'waiting on my tax refund' excuse..

if you took your money he should have the money RIGHT now to pay back...why does he make you have to be unconfortable waiting for your money when he easily can be the unconfortable one refunding you now...then he can waiting till October to resolve his money issue.......you have bills to pay now...... slow pay with conditions is the same is no pay to me ..

i may get in back and forth on some on some posts..but you will see its never about an actual sale of a card and a dissatisfied buyer...i not sure how you dont refund the money on that issue immediately i know i woudl

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by jonvancouver

Brandon said that it is canvas. Also of note, he said that it would have been a regular ball that was bought from the equivalent of todays Dicks Sporting Goods.

Agreed, no professional baseball league would have used that ball.

[jonvancouver]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I got to an age when people say they will 'pay AFTER this or that' (in this case after he sells a ball in October) i just dont ever accept anymore....we probably here the old 'waiting on my tax refund' excuse..

if you took your money he should have the money RIGHT now to pay back...why does he make you have to be unconfortable waiting for your money when he easily can be the unconfortable one refunding you now...then he can waiting till October to resolve his money issue.......you have bills to pay now...... slow pay with conditions is the same is no pay to me ..

i may get in back and forth on some on some posts..but you will see its never about an actual sale of a card and a dissatisfied buyer...i not sure how you dont refund the money on that issue immediately i know i woudl

And take your point (which I agree with) one step further, I don't even WANT a 1926-1932 canvas baseball that has nothing to do with a professional league. If he would have told me what it was when he offered it to me, I would have said no thank you.
So to wait until October to see what it sells for, ONLY to be able to get a refund for the difference makes absolutely no sense. I simply don't want it. I've told Kevin that I don't want it and that I can't wait until October for a partial refund. His response was "what I sent you is the best I can do"

Unacceptable.

[deeg23]

I agree that he probably got taken when he bought it. I can't see, after this thread, how he wouldn't give you a refund. He seems to be a great contributor here and not really worth it. Hey, it's past midnight... Happy 4th errbody!

[ibuysportsephemera]

Not to pile on, but I thought that khkco4bls did something a little shady in June in this thread http://net54baseball.com/showthread....t=andy+sandler. Basically he took another seller's for sale thread and listed his own item in that thread. In my opinion that was bad form...Just my 2¢.

Jeff

[ruth-gehrig]

He is at least viewing this thread at the moment.

[khkco4bls]

Let's talk about Jonathan for a minute he did this deal with me talked about how much he was so excited to get these items and so excited to have all these bats and the ball he was so excited to put them in his collection this is what he was telling me when we made the deal told me to ship the whole bag of items to Pennsylvania where his buddy lives. Jonathan is in Washington state. Then he proceeded the next day to have his friend put them all up on eBay for profit I have no problem with him doing that he should have just told me that in the first place and I'm telling you right now since he couldn't hawk the baseball and make money on it he wants to return it 4 months later 4 months. not a week, week and a half for months so who Shady here Jonathan. and obviously appears to me that Jonathan didn't do is homework. Yes I do have the same ball in the box that is going up in REA including my whole collection in October I'm not going to the National. Jonathan is nothing but an eBay store looking to make profit on everything he buys it's not for his collection like he says. The guy emailed me last week and asked you have any more baseballs to sell and then he comes up with this. So let's make sure we tell the whole story Jonathan not just what you think in your head. And yes I bought mine with the box from Bob McCann I didn't get ripped off in any way when I bought them so let's stop all that nonsense and Bob McCann obviously Miss informed me of the dating of the ball

[khkco4bls]

By the way how my basketball item wound up in somebody else's thread I don't know and didn't know until I read this it was supposed to be on the my own thread

[khkco4bls]

I have never ever had a problem selling items to anybody on here or outside of here until now he will get his refund I got to get it together. But his partner in Pennsylvania who ever it is I'm nothing but an eBay store or Hawking items that they buy from other people. That kind of bothered me because he tells me how excited he was to get all these items he's full of crap

[gnaz01]

4 months????

[ibuysportsephemera]

4 months and items being sent for a quick turn to the eBay store....And now the plot thickens, can't wait for the response from Jonathan.

Jeff

[jason.1969]

The plot thickens...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

and the other shoe drops.

[7nohitter]

Talk about FIREWORKS!!!! BOOM!

[gnaz01]

[savedfrommyspokes]

Could these be some of the bats?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw...-1911&_sacat=0

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by khkco4bls

Let's talk about Jonathan for a minute he did this deal with me talked about how much he was so excited to get these items and so excited to have all these bats and the ball he was so excited to put them in his collection this is what he was telling me when we made the deal told me to ship the whole bag of items to Pennsylvania where his buddy lives. Jonathan is in Washington state. Then he proceeded the next day to have his friend put them all up on eBay for profit I have no problem with him doing that he should have just told me that in the first place and I'm telling you right now since he couldn't hawk the baseball and make money on it he wants to return it 4 months later 4 months. not a week, week and a half for months so who Shady here Jonathan. and obviously appears to me that Jonathan didn't do is homework. Yes I do have the same ball in the box that is going up in REA including my whole collection in October I'm not going to the National. Jonathan is nothing but an eBay store looking to make profit on everything he buys it's not for his collection like he says. The guy emailed me last week and asked you have any more baseballs to sell and then he comes up with this. So let's make sure we tell the whole story Jonathan not just what you think in your head. And yes I bought mine with the box from Bob McCann I didn't get ripped off in any way when I bought them so let's stop all that nonsense and Bob McCann obviously Miss informed me of the dating of the ball

Hi Kevin, my name is Greg. I'm the friend of Jonathan's in Pennsylvania you mentioned. Jonathan is new to memorabilia and I've been around long enough to be able to help a little with advice on old baseball bats. Yes, he was very excited about the bats he bought from you. He was still a little nervous about such a big purchase and he asked me to have a look at them and tell him what I knew about them before sending them along to him with a few other bats that I had already sold him.

Unfortunately the bats that you sent were mostly in rough condition, with two "bats" from the 19th century that barely qualified as pieces of baseball equipment. I think one used to be a bat (cut in half) or the handle of a farm tool and another looks more like a banister piece/stairway railing post to me. Another bat was barely held together with grip tape or else it was two pieces.

You shipped them all inside a bat bag thrown into a large box. Normally this wouldn't have been that big of a deal, but you included the Eddie Collins Mini Decal Bat (wrapped in one layer of bubble wrap) just thrown in with the big heavier bats and it lost about 20% of the decal that was on it before you shipped it. Most of it was in a pile of crumbs stuck inside the bubble wrap. I really don't know much about old baseballs so I couldn't be of much help to him with that baseball unfortunately.

Anyway, when I informed him of the overall quality of the bats he decided that he didn't want them. He was both upset that he made a purchase without knowing enough about what he was buying and discouraged about the whole deal he had made with you. Instead of asking for a full refund he decided to "take his lumps" as a learning experience and move on hoping that his "cool baseball" would be the saving grace of the deal. So, I offered to list the bats (that were actually bats) on my ebay ID in an auction style with starting bids just under his individual cost. About half of the bats sold for the starting price or one small bid higher. The other half did not sell.

To say he was trying to make a profit is making you look foolish Kevin. Don't forget the 10% ebay fee and the 3% ppal fee were subtracted from those sales, and half didn't sell. They were sold to ease the financial pain of a horrible deal with you.

As for the ball, neither of us knew anything about it so he did research on his own after I mailed it to him...and here we are. Why don't you just refund him? He was too nice to not just send everything back in the first place. You are an ameturish "picker" with a basement full of 30 years of leftover fleamarket junk you gathered, not a memorabilia expert. You were wrong about the ball. Man up sir!

Greg Bishop

[EvilKing00]

Ball not being from the year / era is a problem

4 month return also a problem

Cut the ball in half and return 1/2 and refund half the money -

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

Could these be some of the bats?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw...-1911&_sacat=0

Thats them.
GB

[jason.1969]

A little off topic but the bats on eBay look pretty nice for their age and for the prices paid.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

Thats them.
GB

Greg, no offense meant, but those bats are pretty nice. I know that Collins bat, and you stated it "lost" 20% of it's decal, yet in your eBay ad, you stated "75%+" was present, so did Kevin sell it to you/Jonathan with almost 100% decal intact??

Greg

[Leon]

Originally Posted by gnaz01

Greg, no offense meant, but those bats are pretty nice. I know that Collins bat, and you stated it "lost" 20% of it's decal, yet in your eBay ad, you stated "75%+" was present, so did Kevin sell it to you/Jonathan with almost 100% decal intact??

Greg

This seems like a witch hunt to me. Unfortunately I have been the focal point of one of those and it's not fun. Jonathan tried to take the high road, did nothing wrong and deserves a refund, Period.

BTW, I have been intricately involved in this issue for a few days. Ball was sold as something it isn't. Four seconds, minutes, hours, days, months, years.....still not the ball it was portrayed to be.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by Leon

Ball was sold as something it isn't. Four seconds, minutes, hours, days, months, years.....still not the ball it was portrayed to be.

I understand LL, not trying to upset anyone and apologize if I did, but at the end of the day, isn't it "caveat emptor"

Just my 2 cents (no change required )

[khkco4bls]

Those are all of my bats that he listed I sent photos descriptions told him over the phone what they were to what they were before he bought them so don't tell me they were in rough shape they weren't in that rough shape and the decal was missing 20% of it when I shipped to you. You should have sent me pictures and said that some of it come off you didn't you chose not to and then you sold everything. what more can I do I sent plenty of photos to him

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by gnaz01

Greg, no offense meant, but those bats are pretty nice. I know that Collins bat, and you stated it "lost" 20% of it's decal, yet in your eBay ad, you stated "75%+" was present, so did Kevin sell it to you/Jonathan with almost 100% decal intact??

Greg

Naz, only the Hornsby bat was nice. By my standards those are rough. I said the Collins bat lost 20% of the decal from when it was pictured, meaning 20 off what was on it before. Not 20 off original 100.

GB

[frankbmd]

So posting you dirty laundry on a public forum to encourage a lynch mob to join you after hearing half the story is "taking the high road".

Got it.

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by khkco4bls

Those are all of my bats that he listed I sent photos descriptions told him over the phone what they were to what they were before he bought them so don't tell me they were in rough shape they weren't in that rough shape and the decal was missing 20% of it when I shipped to you. You should have sent me pictures and said that some of it come off you didn't you chose not to and then you sold everything. what more can I do I sent plenty of photos to him

Direct your speech to Jonathan, not me sir.
GB

[jonvancouver]

If I had a little more experience (and probably less respect for my elders as I'm only 33 years old) I would have returned the entire group of bats. But Kevin, I didn't want to 'bug' you and instead chalked it up to my inexperience. The problem is that you've been doing this for a long time. You said that on the phone too. When you told me that you were going to put them all in a single bat bag and ship them to Washington State (I actually live on Bowen Island in British Columbia and my post box in Washington State is about a 60 minute drive for me) I decided to call Greg and see if he wouldn't mind meeting you to pick them up because I was nervous about them rattling around together in a bag with no protection. When I get a bat from Greg it comes in a tube, bubble wrapped, with peanuts on either end, with bubble wrap around the tube and shipped in a big box.Unfortunately he couldn't meet you on the day you were driving to play golf with friends. We took about a week to see if I could make that meeting happen.

When Greg got the bats in hand he called me and said that they were no good. And Greg is the ONLY person I trust when talking about this stuff. He has been around a long time and has never once steered me wrong.
He didn't say they were no good but 'man oh man you are going to make a killing selling these things". As a matter of fact, it would have been easier for him to just reship them to me and hype them up so that I wouldn't have had a bad experience buying from you. He wasted his time unloading them to at least recoup me some of the money.

One of the most discouraging things about you is that after speaking to Brandon, coupled with you having experience in this hobby, you could have sold me even a decent ball that was a pro model for the 600 dollars. You showed me pictures of balls in your collection that I know now to be pro baseballs. To me, it's clear that you flat out ripped me off. The ONE ball you choose to offer me ends up being a dud? What are the odds of that happening? With all those balls you showed me, and their boxes in cubes, you choose to sell me the one ball that ends up being a dud? Come on, I might only be 33 but I have common sense.

I told you on the phone when we spoke the I've been doing this for around 18 months, and that I'm practically brand new in the equipment side of the hobby. I told you that I do this to be able to sit with my 5 year old son and talk about the game. Anyone on this board who has taken a second to have a chat with me would know exactly the kind of person I am, and you took advantage of that person.

At the end of the day, I struggled even posting the original message, because on some baseline, being associated with negativity isn't something I like to be a part of. When I spoke to Leon I told him that I needed some time to think about whether or not to even do it. I know how these things can go. The people that don't know me can certainly come to their own conclusions. However, I gave you a chance to refund the money. I was nice about it. I told you that even though the condition of the bats wouldn't fit in my collection I was ok with it. I wrote that in an email to you. I never ONE TIME emailed you or called asking to return the bats. I had already chalked that up to a loss. The GREAT deal you gave me resulted in a $600 ball worth $50 bucks, and a loss of around $800 on bats that were not properly described.

Let's take it a step further. One of the bats was a Winchester. It was completely cracked. The crack was hidden under grip tape. You never said, one of the bats I'm selling you is completely cracked but the crack is hidden under grip tape so you'd never really know unless you take the tape off..."
You kept that information to yourself. I have no clue how you wouldn't have known that it was cracked, but maybe you didn't know for the same reason you say you didn't know about the baseball. The whole thing stinks.

You know what you did, and now you can undo it. For someone to be in the hobby a long time and take advantage of a new collector is sad. It's something that every other person on this board has NOT done to me.

600 dollars it's peanuts. This whole deal started with a cheap Piper Bat. It developed into a phone conversation where you heard firsthand about my inexperience. Then you sunk your teeth in.

Finally, I fully expect that some members will think I've done something wrong, and that's ok. All I can do is lay out the facts and try to explain my point of view. We are talking about a 600 dollar baseball, sold from an experienced collector to an admitted novice. Those are the facts.

6:37 AM and the kids are up. I check the thread all the time and will answer any other questions that are asked of me.

Jonathan

[jason.1969]

Originally Posted by gnaz01

I understand LL, not trying to upset anyone and apologize if I did, but at the end of the day, isn't it "caveat emptor"

Just my 2 cents (no change required )

Seriously?? When an item is completely misrepresented? Maybe when we're talking about guys on street corners selling cash-only "Rolexes" from their coats but hopefully not here on N54.

[khkco4bls]

If I'm such an amateur picker just check out REA in October to see my 220 plus items going up for auction and you'll see I am far from being an amateur picker. So greg what makes u such a professional

[khkco4bls]

Also I never told him it was from 1896.

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by khkco4bls

If I'm such an amateur picker just check out REA in October to see my 220 plus items going up for auction and you'll see I am far from being an amateur picker. So greg what makes u such a professional

I refund for things when customers aren't happy with them.
GB

[jonvancouver]

edited because I am getting too heated. Comment not necessary.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

Seriously?? When an item is completely misrepresented? Maybe when we're talking about guys on street corners selling cash-only "Rolexes" from their coats but hopefully not here on N54.

Jason, I get it, all I am doing is reiterating what is on the top of all the B/S/T threads (not placed by me). Before I make ANY purchase of something I'm not sure about, I do some research on my end first, that's all that was meant to imply.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

So posting you dirty laundry on a public forum to encourage a lynch mob to join you after hearing half the story is "taking the high road".

Got it.

Yes. He tried to sell the bats he didn't like, and take a loss, without even contacting the seller. Then he tried to resolve this amicably over and over and over privately. So, yeah, to me that is taking the high road. Had he posted this without ever trying to get it resolved privately first I wouldn't have the same opinion. He also ran his first post by me before posting to make sure it was ok. Of course it is/was. But that is just my take that he took the high road. Maybe he should just shut up and get taken, right?

And I should reiterate this had already gone on for several days BEFORE it was posted about. When the crazy statement about "some deals are good and some aren't" came out, is when it went public.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Originally Posted by khkco4bls

If I'm such an amateur picker just check out REA in October to see my 220 plus items going up for auction and you'll see I am far from being an amateur picker. So greg what makes u such a professional

So just return the guys money on the ball and be done with it. Instead, your reputation keeps taking a beating on Net54. Again, just my 2¢.

Jeff

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jason.1969

Seriously?? When an item is completely misrepresented? Maybe when we're talking about guys on street corners selling cash-only "Rolexes" from their coats but hopefully not here on N54.

I almost barfed when I read that. How could an intelligent person say that?

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by Leon

I almost barfed when I read that. How could an intelligent person say that?

Agreed everyone, just tired from a long, hard weekend. I've refunded $$ (only one time when a person wasn't happy) so agreed, Kevin does need to do the right thing here.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by gnaz01

Agreed everyone, just tired from a long, hard weekend. I've refunded $$ (only one time when a person wasn't happy) so agreed, Kevin does need to do the right thing here.

I have posted thousands of things where I went back and said "I said that?, what was I thinking" ....no worries......

[Econteachert205]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have posted thousands of things where I went back and said "I said that?, what was I thinking" ....no worries......

Amen to that.

[111gecko]

220 items at the REA auction?. That's actually pretty impressive....this deal just looks/smells bad all over. Give the man his $500 bucks and move on. Is it worth getting this much unwanted attention? Sounds like you are a pretty successful dealer..your call; just an outsider's viewpoint.

[khkco4bls]

First of all I'm not a dealer I'm just a collector who is parting with his collection because I'm moving south next month and can't take it with me I kept some selected items for myself that's it. These items would describe and photograph for him I don't understand Jonathan what you don't get about that and what you did not see before you purchase these items we had many phone conversations not just one. I said he would get his refund that's it. I will return his money but Jonathan I'm certainly not shedding a tear over your purchase you saw everything you had plenty of photos descriptions I told you about the crack that under the tape

[khkco4bls]

By the way this will be my last post on in this matter so let's move on

[khkco4bls]

Jonathan wants to keep bashing me he's more than welcome to because I have thick skin Jonathan it doesn't bother me in the least.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by khkco4bls

I said he would get his refund that's it. I will return his money

Maybe LL should lock the thread once this happens, no need to go on, IMO.