e92 Nadja and associated questions

rainier2004 · #1 12-17-2011, 12:59 PM

Exactly how tough are the 12 nadja cards that do not have other e92 backs? Do people try to put together a 62-card "set" of e92s with different backs? Id assume ptting together all 4 sets of differing backs would be really, really tough. I've read Lipset 20 times by now and search this board but am relatively new to these cards. It appears cobb and the wagners are highest in price? These poses are sweet and especially like the gibson and matty. Any help would be great.

cdn_collector · #2 12-17-2011, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Exactly how tough are the 12 nadja cards that do not have other e92 backs? Do people try to put together a 62-card "set" of e92s with different backs? Id assume ptting together all 4 sets of differing backs would be really, really tough. I've read Lipset 20 times by now and search this board but am relatively new to these cards. It appears cobb and the wagners are highest in price? These poses are sweat and especially like the gibson and matty. Any help would be great.

My collecting experience with e92s is limited to just a single player [Gibson]. At one time I had the Dockman, the Croft's Cocoa and the Croft's & Allen. I no longer own any of 'em [regretfully], but would estimate that the Cocoa is the toughest of those 4, as I have since seen the other three for sale multiple times. A few years ago there was a small group of blank backs that were deemed as e92s as well. Aside from having seen a blank backed Gibson, I don't recall much about them.

And with that digression out of the way, my guess is that Wagner(s) & Cobb are the highest price cards, followed by Matty and Young. This of course, isn't to say any of the 4 sets gets easy once those 5 cards are tracked down, as there are common players within each of the backs that are surprisingly scarce.

Regards,

Richard.

fkw · #3 12-17-2011, 03:46 PM

I dont have any of my books with me right now, but If I remember right Lipset noted the StL player as being tougher (L.L.'s books were written back in early 80's)... Ive noticed the opposite and about 75% of all the Nadjas Ive owned.... not many maybe 20 total over they years have been these StL players (at least 4 were Wallace and 3 Bresnahan). But I also cant afford some of the HOFers so go for the common players more often too.

Nadja was based in StL if I remember right, and is probably the reason they added the (common) StL players

Leon · #4 12-17-2011, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Exactly how tough are the 12 nadja cards that do not have other e92 backs? Do people try to put together a 62-card "set" of e92s with different backs? Id assume ptting together all 4 sets of differing backs would be really, really tough. I've read Lipset 20 times by now and search this board but am relatively new to these cards. It appears cobb and the wagners are highest in price? These poses are sweat and especially like the gibson and matty. Any help would be great.

When you say the 12 nadja cards that don't have e92 backs are you speaking of e104? I don't understand the question. The St.Louis players are most common as Lipset had a find of a few hundred or more many years ago. That is why their prices will be a fraction of the other players, generally speaking. They were put out by Blanke-Wenneker candy company and if I am not mistaking, this box which I was alerted to by Jon C, on ebay several years ago, was the missing link. Since then the books have used that company as the source, which I believe it correct.

fkw · #5 12-17-2011, 05:24 PM

I think the 12 not found with any other back but Nadja are many of the common players from both StL teams (poses are from E90-1) and even a couple are found with blue backgrounds (missing yellow ink) or green backgrounds (variations). I dont have my books so this is from shaky memory

PS just looked it up... this is what I have written on my site....
"The checklist is similar to other E92 sets except Nadja includes a group of St. Louis AL and NL players not found in the other sets."

Leon · #6 12-17-2011, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fkw

I think the 12 not found with any other back but Nadja are many of the common players from both StL teams (poses are from E90-1) and even a couple are found with blue backgrounds (missing yellow ink) or green backgrounds (variations). I dont have my books so this is from shaky memory

PS just looked it up... this is what I have written on my site....
"The checklist is similar to other E92 sets except Nadja includes a group of St. Louis AL and NL players not found in the other sets."

Ok, that makes some sense sometimes E90-1 blank backs are called E92. I personally use the lowest common denominator (or ACC#) when speaking of blank backed cards with similar poses. I am curious why this is an e92 instead of an e90-1?

fkw · #7 12-17-2011, 06:01 PM

Leon I wish they were E90-1s

, then this McLean I have would be worth 10++X more (McLean is one of the toughest E90-1s). These may be all from the same find, as mine was graded only 2 cards after yours.

technically the McLean also could be a E101 too... and your Miller "fielding" can be a E102 (used to be known as an extremely rare card, but more have surfaced since Lipset said he knew of only 1)

Leon · #8 12-17-2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fkw

Leon I wish they were E90-1s

, then this McLean I have would be worth 10++X more (McLean is one of the toughest E90-1s). These may be all from the same find, as mine was graded only 2 cards after yours.

technically the McLean also could be a E101 too... and your Miller "fielding" can be a E102 (used to be known as an extremely rare card, but more have surfaced since Lipset said he knew of only 1)

Hey Frank
No doubt they could be any series with the same front. As I said before, it's my personal preference to use the lowest common ACC set #. (I just changed it on my site too. I had it the way SGC had it labeled..) ** This is just my personal preference. I doubt there is a right or wrong way.

rainier2004 · #9 12-17-2011, 07:20 PM

So is this a debatable topic?

My undersatnding goes like this for e92's...4 "different sets"...
40 cards in the Dockman
50 cards in each of the Croft and allen and crofts cocoa
62 nadja caramels...

When I ask about the 12 nadja (all StL) I refer to the ones that do not have either croft back or a dockman back. Are these considered 4 seperate sets then? Are e104s and e92's the same thing? I have 2 different checklists for these.

Leon · #10 12-17-2011, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainier2004

So is this a debatable topic?

My undersatnding goes like this for e92's...4 "different sets"...
40 cards in the Dockman
50 cards in each of the Croft and allen and crofts cocoa
62 nadja caramels...

When I ask about the 12 nadja (all StL) I refer to the ones that do not have either croft back or a dockman back. Are these considered 4 seperate sets then? Are e104s and e92's the same thing? I have 2 different checklists for these.

I think it is generally accepted, though debatable, that the E92's are 4 sets just as you said. The E104s have 3 subsets and are generally considered different than the E92 Nadjas. Hope that isn't more confusing...regards

rainier2004 · #11 12-17-2011, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

The E104s have 3 subsets and are generally considered different than the E92 Nadjas. Hope that isn't more confusing...regards

The e92 nadja are not one of the subsets of the e104s correct?

Leon · #12 12-17-2011, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainier2004

The e92 nadja are not one of the subsets of the e104s correct?

I have never seen them be presented that way but they were distributed by the same company, as far as I know.

fkw · #13 12-17-2011, 07:46 PM

E104's are all portraits with blue captions
this link breaks it down easier than I can explain it
http://www.oldcardboard.com/e/e1/e10...?cardsetID=746

The E92 Nadjas have the same fronts (images and black caption) as some E90-1 and the other E92 sets., thats why they arent grouped with E104 I believe

Ive always thought the blank back (anonymous) E104s did not come in Nadja products, but maybe some other unknown candy/bread/tobacco ??

Northviewcats · #14 12-17-2011, 08:20 PM

I really like the E92 Nadja issue; it's nice to to read comments about some of the less collected sets.

I've played around a bit with trying to collect a higher-grade St. Louis team set for about a year. I've been able to collect the Bailey, Bresnahan, Ellis, & both Stones (pictures of my cards attached). I know there are currently a several more (Phelps, and Wallace) available for higher buy-it-now prices on eBay than I want to pay. But I haven't seen higher grade examples of the (2) Hartzells, (2) Howells, the Oakes and O'Hara cards come up for sale since I started looking. I consider any graded E-card over EX higher grade.

I know there was a large group of St. Louis cards discovered a while back and many of the nice looking St. Louis Nadjas come from that find, but I wonder if anyone knows if it was only certain St. Louis players that were found, and if I'm looking in vain for nice examples the players that I have not already purchased.

I've also noted that it is virtually impossible to find higher grade examples of the non-St. Louis players. The Dots Miller card looks sharp, but there is tape on the back. A few months ago several of these non-St. Louis cards came up for sale on eBay, I regret that I didn't bid on more of them.

Best regards,

Joe

Peter W Thomas · #15 12-25-2011, 01:02 PM

We have had a couple of threads on this and there are only 58 Nadja's confirmed. Lou Lipset and BCD have seen a Cobb. Pete Calderon and BCD have seen Evers. Tim Newcomb has a Knabe. Bescher, Wild Bill Donovan, Larry Doyle with bat & Zimmerman have no graded examples and no one replied that they had seen examples.