Need a little of advice on a Carmelo Deportivo album

[Northviewcats]

Hi Everyone,

I picked up a 1945-1946 Carmelo album off eBay a week or so ago. The set is complete minus the Reyes card. The cards look great, but the condition of the album itself is pretty rough--lots of stains and some mildew.

I'm debating whether to leave the album alone, or to try and remove the cards by gently soaking them. The cards are solidly glued into the album. Perhaps in the Cuban heat the glue has softened and then re-hardened. I'm just wondering if they would be better preserved in graded holders (for the expensive cards), and top loaders for the commons.

Any advice from collectors that have tried removing Cuban cards from an album would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe

[ElCabron]

Generally pretty easy to soak out. Usually water soluble glue. It depends on what you want. It's easier to think of them as individual cards once they're out of the album. But they've survived fine for nearly 70 years in the album, so leaving them in would probably be okay, depending on the mold situation. If the cards are nice, I'd say soak 'em.

-Ryan

[rgpete]

I would find a professional who deals with paper restoration to remove the cards from the pages, could be costly. Also I would not attempt it myself in fear of destroying the cards and loosing money in the end

[ElCabron]

No need for a professional. It would cost more than the album's worth. Easy to do yourself. To a Net54 search for soaking cards.

-Ryan

[ElCabron]

"Do" a search. Not "to."

[Northviewcats]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I have soaked a few prewar cards before with success. I just wasn't sure about how well the Cuban cards did in water. I thought that they may wrinkle because they are so thin. Also I have never tried soaking cards that are glued on both sides of the same paper.

I probably will enjoy them in the album for awhile before I try removing them.

Best regards,

Joe

[rgpete]

Originally Posted by ElCabron

No need for a professional. It would cost more than the album's worth. Easy to do yourself. To a Net54 search for soaking cards.

-Ryan

"Easy to do it yourself" means "its easier said than done"

[prewarsports]

I've done two of those albums and one was a piece of cake, the other was a disaster. Black ink is usually not water soluble but if you put ANY pressure on the fronts of those cards when wet they will completely rub away so be VERY careful not to touch the fronts.

[Northviewcats]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

I've done two of those albums and one was a piece of cake, the other was a disaster. Black ink is usually not water soluble but if you put ANY pressure on the fronts of those cards when wet they will completely rub away so be VERY careful not to touch the fronts.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Was there any difference in the condition of the two albums before you soaked them?

Best regards,

Joe

[prewarsports]

Not that I remember, the first one was the disaster (several of the umpires on the front page got flat out ruined. Second time around and with some more experience they came out awesome. I would just not touch the cards at all, let them soak and float off the page then air dry, don't touch the ink at all or it will smear. I think on the first few I tried to rub the glue residue off the back and the pressure to the fronts ruined the ink and smeared it. It might have had something to do with the glue, I don't know, just be careful not to smear the ink and they should be fine.

[Michael B]

I have not soaked these types of albums so I defer to Rhys on this. However, the one thing that nobody mentions when discussing soaking an item is that distilled water is the best type to use. It has no chemicals and is purified. You should be able to find it in CVS, Walgreens, Rite-Aid or a real drug store for about $2 a gallon or less. The chemicals in tap water can affect the item and that is difficult to predict. As previously mentioned, most early glues are water soluble, due to their makeup. I may also suggest using pyrex style glass baking dishes or good plastic trays to soak the item. Metal trays could introduce metal into the water which could also leave rust stains.

I have soaked some scrapbooks and other items and it always works well with those. I have also cleaned old engravings in a similar manner. Using a solution of 10 to 1 warm water to bleach can clean old book engravings. You cannot touch the engraving itself while wet as it will smear. You will see the engraving whiten, you remove and hang by a corner, let dry and it looks brand new. I have done this with quite a few 1840's to 1860's book engravings. This will not work with old magazines or newspapers. You need a special deacidification solution for those. This is only for engravings, not prints from books.

[glynparson]

and if you have additional questions about it I would ask Ryan. He is certainly the board expert on these (Cuban) issues and I would surely defer to his experience and expertise.

[ElCabron]

Originally Posted by rgpete

"Easy to do it yourself" means "its easier said than done"

Not sure what translator you're using, but "Easy to do it yourself" means that it's easy to do it yourself.

-Ryan

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Soaking is pretty easy to do.


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[Northviewcats]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I will probably try to remove them from the album later this year. I appreciate all of the good suggestions.

Joe

[T206DK]

these cards are very delicate when wet.....BE CAREFUL.

[Jason19th]

I feel the need to weigh in and ask why are we so quick to soak these albums. Its not like we are talking about a scrapbook or cards that are randomly attached to some old paper. These are cards that are in the exact state that they are supposed to be. They are tiny and fragile cards that were meant to be put in the album. Why are we so quick to want to release them so they can be put into holders. I think that these albums are beautiful items that look a lot better then a collection of cards. So my vote (I know no one asked for my vote) would be to keep them as is -- why take any chance harming them if they look great as is

[Northviewcats]

Originally Posted by Jason19th

I feel the need to weigh in and ask why are we so quick to soak these albums. Its not like we are talking about a scrapbook or cards that are randomly attached to some old paper. These are cards that are in the exact state that they are supposed to be. They are tiny and fragile cards that were meant to be put in the album. Why are we so quick to want to release them so they can be put into holders. I think that these albums are beautiful items that look a lot better then a collection of cards. So my vote (I know no one asked for my vote) would be to keep them as is -- why take any chance harming them if they look great as is

Hi Jason,

Thanks for your opinion, I do value it. You are correct that the cards are currently in the state that they were meant to be displayed in. I do appreciate this. In fact it was my intent when I purchased the item to keep the cards in the album.

My concern is the condition of the album itself. Its pretty fragile. It has only been in my possession for a week, and the couple of times that I have turned the pages small flakes on the edges of the pages have broken off. The cards are in pretty good shape, but the pages are stained and in places show what looks like mildew. There are five or six valuable cards in the set (Dihigo, Brown, Dandridge, Minoso, & Tiant) and I wonder if they would be better preserved if they were in graded holders. The common cards would still look nice in top loaders.

I also thought of separating the album into pages and place them into protective plastic sleeves and a binder. In this way I could preserve some of the integrity of the album and still enjoy looking at them without having the pages flake off in my hands.

Perhaps other collectors may have other suggestions.

I posted a couple more pictures; it would be great to see more collectors take interest in the Cuban cards. Also a great way to collect players from the Negro leagues.

Thanks,

Joe

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Northviewcats

I also thought of separating the album into pages and place them into protective plastic sleeves and a binder. In this way I could preserve some of the integrity of the album and still enjoy looking at them without having the pages flake off in my hands.

If this was mine, that's probably what I would do, even though it seems kind of bad, in a way. I definitely (definitely,definitely) would not soak the cards off, but that's just me.

Doug

[ElCabron]

For the record, even though you've described it as being in rough shape, based on the pictures you posted, this album actually appears to be in very nice condition. Definitely above average. Keep in mind, if you had to pick the worst climates for preservation of paper ephemera, Cuba would be right near the top of the list. It's very common for albums to have a lot of damage to the covers, and very often to the interior pages as well. For this one, both the album and the cards seem to be in nice shape. Maybe that's a factor in deciding whether or not to keep intact?

-Ryan

[rgpete]

Originally Posted by ElCabron

Not sure what translator you're using, but "Easy to do it yourself" means that it's easy to do it yourself.

-Ryan

Common Sense

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Jason19th

why are we so quick to soak these albums.

M-O-N-E-Y. Depending on the results, the individual cards could sell for more than the album.

[rgpete]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

M-O-N-E-Y. Depending on the results, the individual cards could sell for more than the album.

I agree

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ElCabron

For the record, even though you've described it as being in rough shape, based on the pictures you posted, this album actually appears to be in very nice condition. Definitely above average. Keep in mind, if you had to pick the worst climates for preservation of paper ephemera, Cuba would be right near the top of the list. It's very common for albums to have a lot of damage to the covers, and very often to the interior pages as well. For this one, both the album and the cards seem to be in nice shape. Maybe that's a factor in deciding whether or not to keep intact?

-Ryan

Hopefully a nice one won't be cut up but if it is, it is. Maybe the value of a nice one, fully intact, is worth it to keep that way, since I would think they are scarce. Good luck to the OP..