Personal Pre-War Set and Collector Survey

[BobC]

Originally Posted by todeen

I have about 60 pre-war. 29 are in one set: Cincinnati Reds w-711.

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Hey Tim,

A Reds W-711 partial set, wow!!! Now there's a set you really never see or hear about. I know literally nothing about that set, and don't remember it ever being listed in the old SCD catalogs either. Would love to hear some info/background about the set, and what it was that prompted you to start collecting it.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Originally Posted by BobC

Hey Tim,

A Reds W-711 partial set, wow!!! Now there's a set you really never see or hear about. I know literally nothing about that set, and don't remember it ever being listed in the old SCD catalogs either. Would love to hear some info/background about the set, and what it was that prompted you to start collecting it.

Hi Tim,

I was wondering about the W711s too. Are you doing the type 1 or type 2 set? I'm working on the Type 1 set but am far from completion at this point. I find it to be a wonderful set with great images and the red color accents are perfect.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by BobC

Hey Tim,

A Reds W-711 partial set, wow!!! Now there's a set you really never see or hear about. I know literally nothing about that set, and don't remember it ever being listed in the old SCD catalogs either. Would love to hear some info/background about the set, and what it was that prompted you to start collecting it.

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

Hi Tim,

I was wondering about the W711s too. Are you doing the type 1 or type 2 set? I'm working on the Type 1 set but am far from completion at this point. I find it to be a wonderful set with great images and the red color accents are perfect.

First, I'm a Reds fan. I collect as much memorabilia as I do cards. I'm a history teacher, and I got into pre-war about 9 years ago, and I started learning about the 1939-40 Cincinnati Reds. I always wanted my display to feel like a museum. I saw the set and fell in love. It's beautiful. I always thought the set was team issued, but Chris Gamble shared an advertisement about a year ago that the set was produced and distributed by the local dairy company. A new card would arrive with the milk! The lesser known players are the hardest to find and command prices similar to or higher than the stars. The Jim Weaver pictured below is the only one I've ever seen, and I paid as much for it as I did the others. Regardless, I have only once seen a Johnny Vander Meer portrait; I have seen Johnny's action shot a couple times. The portrait was autographed, and a member of this site owns it. I collect both series, but I only have two 1939 cards. The only way I can tell them apart is by reading the description on the back. The description was updated to mention accomplishments from 1938. Finally, I'm about to sell my partial set. I bought a T206 red Cobb, and my set, among other things, is going to help me pay for it.



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[MuncieNolePAZ]

1. Started collecting in late 80s, but not pre-war cards until 2018.

2. About 65.

3. 26

4. My most significant would be my 1914 CJ WaJo and my T206 Cobbs.

5. I am not currently collecting any pre-war sets. Thought about a few, but decided not for multiple reasons. Mainly collect Cobb and WaJo cards.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by MuncieNolePAZ

1. Started collecting in late 80s, but not pre-war cards until 2018.

2. About 65.

3. 26

4. My most significant would be my 1914 CJ WaJo and my T206 Cobbs.

5. I am not currently collecting any pre-war sets. Thought about a few, but decided not for multiple reasons. Mainly collect Cobb and WaJo cards.

Absolutely nothing wrong with being just a player collector. All good, and some really nice cards in your collection as well.

[LeftHandedDane]

Great Thread!

1. I have been a collector for 50 years, since I was 10 years old. Like many, I was inactive during my young adult years, and picked the hobby back up about 12 years ago. I started collecting pre-war about 6 years ago. I started with the Play Balls, then the Goudeys. I have not started on the cigarette cards yet - they seem like too much of a challenge for me.
2. Like others, I collect but don't really sell, so my peak number of pre-war cards is the same as my current number. Its right at about 1000 (including about 200 non-sports cards - I really like the 1938 Horrors of War set).
3. See #2
4. I am proudest of the Goudey Ruths and Gehrigs (I own all the Ruths and all but one of the Gehrigs). I also have a T206 Green Cobb portrait that I paid $5 for in about 1975 (ungraded but is probably a 1-1.5)
5. I am a set collector, so most everything is complete or nearly:
- 1933 Goudey (complete except for 192 Gehrig and Lajoie)
- 1934 Goudey (complete except for Greenberg)
- 1939 Play Ball (complete except for Williams)
- 1940 Play Ball (complete except for Dimaggio and Jackson)
- 1941 Play Ball (complete)

[BobC]

Originally Posted by LeftHandedDane

Great Thread!

1. I have been a collector for 50 years, since I was 10 years old. Like many, I was inactive during my young adult years, and picked the hobby back up about 12 years ago. I started collecting pre-war about 6 years ago. I started with the Play Balls, then the Goudeys. I have not started on the cigarette cards yet - they seem like too much of a challenge for me.
2. Like others, I collect but don't really sell, so my peak number of pre-war cards is the same as my current number. Its right at about 1000 (including about 200 non-sports cards - I really like the 1938 Horrors of War set).
3. See #2
4. I am proudest of the Goudey Ruths and Gehrigs (I own all the Ruths and all but one of the Gehrigs). I also have a T206 Green Cobb portrait that I paid $5 for in about 1975 (ungraded but is probably a 1-1.5)
5. I am a set collector, so most everything is complete or nearly:
- 1933 Goudey (complete except for 192 Gehrig and Lajoie)
- 1934 Goudey (complete except for Greenberg)
- 1939 Play Ball (complete except for Williams)
- 1940 Play Ball (complete except for Dimaggio and Jackson)
- 1941 Play Ball (complete)

Nice collection Ed. Looks like you may be getting ready to start on your next set as well. If not tobacco cards, maybe the '41 Double Play set, or possibly the '34-'36 Diamond Stars set? Happy collecting.

[obcbobd]

1. How long have you been collecting pre-war cards?
About 1972,I bought a few T206s, got some 33 Goudeys a few years later. Stopped around 1980 and picked up again in the early 90s

2. What is the approximate largest number of pre-war cards/items you've
ever owned at any one time? ~1300

3. Approximately how many pre-war cards/items do you currently still own?
~1300

4. What is/are the most significant card(s)/item(s) you currently own?
(Not what you may have owned at one time.)
1921 Exhibits Babe Ruth, which is in a 1 cent Exhibit machine



5. What complete sets or near complete sets (say 75% or more) do you
currently own? (Again, not counting sets you used to own, and only
counting the baseball cards in multi-subject sets in determining the
percentage complete. And not including as sets any issue with only 1 or
2 listed baseball cards/items in it.)

1921-22 E121 about 90%
1923 W515-2 75%
1931 W517 complete
1933 Goudey missing Lajoie
1934 Goudey complete
1934-36 Diamond Stars missing two (low numbers only)
1936 National Chicle “Fine Pens” missing four
1939 Play Ball missing one
1940 Play Ball missing two
1941 Play Ball
1941 Double Play

[todeen]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

1. How long have you been collecting pre-war cards?

About 1972,I bought a few T206s, got some 33 Goudeys a few years later. Stopped around 1980 and picked up again in the early 90s



2. What is the approximate largest number of pre-war cards/items you've

ever owned at any one time? ~1300



3. Approximately how many pre-war cards/items do you currently still own?

~1300



4. What is/are the most significant card(s)/item(s) you currently own?

(Not what you may have owned at one time.)

1921 Exhibits Babe Ruth, which is in a 1 cent Exhibit machine







5. What complete sets or near complete sets (say 75% or more) do you

currently own? (Again, not counting sets you used to own, and only

counting the baseball cards in multi-subject sets in determining the

percentage complete. And not including as sets any issue with only 1 or

2 listed baseball cards/items in it.)



1921-22 E121 about 90%

1923 W515-2 75%

1931 W517 complete

1933 Goudey missing Lajoie

1934 Goudey complete

1934-36 Diamond Stars missing two (low numbers only)

1936 National Chicle “Fine Pens” missing four

1939 Play Ball missing one

1940 Play Ball missing two

1941 Play Ball

1941 Double Play

I love the 1921 exhibits! Great Ruth card and display!

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[steve B]

1. How long have you been collecting pre-war cards?
Since late 1977 or early 78. I'n not sure exactly when I bought my first prewar card.

2. What is the approximate largest number of pre-war cards/items you've
ever owned at any one time?

I'm not sure, maybe 3-400 ish?

3. Approximately how many pre-war cards/items do you currently still own?

Pretty much the same, I seldom sell any.

4. What is/are the most significant card(s)/item(s) you currently own?
(Not what you may have owned at one time.)

It's hard to say. I have a handful or T206 with more difficult backs, and a few oddities. It's hard to choose one, as there are a few maybes, but significant for different reasons.

5. What complete sets or near complete sets (say 75% or more) do you
currently own? (Again, not counting sets you used to own, and only
counting the baseball cards in multi-subject sets in determining the
percentage complete. And not including as sets any issue with only 1 or
2 listed baseball cards/items in it.)

None. I don't think I'm even close to 75% in any of them.
One of the hazards of being a not focused collector and more an opportunistic generalist.

[Ricky]

1. How long have you been collecting pre-war cards?
I think I bought my first one, a 1933 Goudey common, around 1980.

2. What is the approximate largest number of pre-war cards/items you've
ever owned at any one time?

I would guess around 500.

3. Approximately how many pre-war cards/items do you currently still own?

Same as above, I very rarely part with any cards.

4. What is/are the most significant card(s)/item(s) you currently own?
(Not what you may have owned at one time.)

Probably my 1933G Ruth and 1933 and 1934G Gehrig, along with two T206 Cobbs, Wajo portrait, and 14CJ Wajo. But others could be up there, too.

5. What complete sets or near complete sets (say 75% or more) do you
currently own? (Again, not counting sets you used to own, and only
counting the baseball cards in multi-subject sets in determining the
percentage complete. And not including as sets any issue with only 1 or
2 listed baseball cards/items in it.)

I'm a type collector with an eye towards stars and HOFers, so I really don't concentrate on building sets, but I do have:
W551
1933 Delong
1935 Goudey
and postwar, 1948 Bowman
complete.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by steve B

1. How long have you been collecting pre-war cards?
Since late 1977 or early 78. I'n not sure exactly when I bought my first prewar card.

2. What is the approximate largest number of pre-war cards/items you've
ever owned at any one time?

I'm not sure, maybe 3-400 ish?

3. Approximately how many pre-war cards/items do you currently still own?

Pretty much the same, I seldom sell any.

4. What is/are the most significant card(s)/item(s) you currently own?
(Not what you may have owned at one time.)

It's hard to say. I have a handful or T206 with more difficult backs, and a few oddities. It's hard to choose one, as there are a few maybes, but significant for different reasons.

5. What complete sets or near complete sets (say 75% or more) do you
currently own? (Again, not counting sets you used to own, and only
counting the baseball cards in multi-subject sets in determining the
percentage complete. And not including as sets any issue with only 1 or
2 listed baseball cards/items in it.)

None. I don't think I'm even close to 75% in any of them.
One of the hazards of being a not focused collector and more an opportunistic generalist.

Steve,

I'm not really a focused collector either, but if you saw my set list you can see what trouble it has gotten me into. LOL Great collection, keep it up.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

1. How long have you been collecting pre-war cards?
About 1972,I bought a few T206s, got some 33 Goudeys a few years later. Stopped around 1980 and picked up again in the early 90s

2. What is the approximate largest number of pre-war cards/items you've
ever owned at any one time? ~1300

3. Approximately how many pre-war cards/items do you currently still own?
~1300

4. What is/are the most significant card(s)/item(s) you currently own?
(Not what you may have owned at one time.)
1921 Exhibits Babe Ruth, which is in a 1 cent Exhibit machine



5. What complete sets or near complete sets (say 75% or more) do you
currently own? (Again, not counting sets you used to own, and only
counting the baseball cards in multi-subject sets in determining the
percentage complete. And not including as sets any issue with only 1 or
2 listed baseball cards/items in it.)

1921-22 E121 about 90%
1923 W515-2 75%
1931 W517 complete
1933 Goudey missing Lajoie
1934 Goudey complete
1934-36 Diamond Stars missing two (low numbers only)
1936 National Chicle “Fine Pens” missing four
1939 Play Ball missing one
1940 Play Ball missing two
1941 Play Ball
1941 Double Play

Super nice collection Bob. Figured we'd hear from one of you OBC guys eventually. And that Exhibit dispensing machine with the Ruth card is out of this world. I have a 1950's Victor gumball and baseball card dispensing machine myself, so I can relate to how cool having an Exhibit machine from that far back actually is. And having a Ruth card with it is simply icing on the cake. Wow!!!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by todeen

First, I'm a Reds fan. I collect as much memorabilia as I do cards. I'm a history teacher, and I got into pre-war about 9 years ago, and I started learning about the 1939-40 Cincinnati Reds. I always wanted my display to feel like a museum. I saw the set and fell in love. It's beautiful. I always thought the set was team issued, but Chris Gamble shared an advertisement about a year ago that the set was produced and distributed by the local dairy company. A new card would arrive with the milk! The lesser known players are the hardest to find and command prices similar to or higher than the stars. The Jim Weaver pictured below is the only one I've ever seen, and I paid as much for it as I did the others. Regardless, I have only once seen a Johnny Vander Meer portrait; I have seen Johnny's action shot a couple times. The portrait was autographed, and a member of this site owns it. I collect both series, but I only have two 1939 cards. The only way I can tell them apart is by reading the description on the back. The description was updated to mention accomplishments from 1938. Finally, I'm about to sell my partial set. I bought a T206 red Cobb, and my set, among other things, is going to help me pay for it.

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Super collection and great cards from such a tough set. Sorry to hear you may be parting with a portion of the collection to fund the purchase of another card, but it is of a T206 Cobb so can understand. And I now see those were listed in the old SCD catalogs under a caption of "Cincinnati Reds Team Issue" for the years 1938, 1939, and 1940. Your mention that these were actually prepared and distributed by a local Cincinnati dairy, and therefore maybe not a team issue at all, just shows how little we may actually know about a lot of the sets and items that we collect. It also shows that even when we have great resources for such information, like the SCD catalogs, you still can't always assume they are always 100% accurate and up to date. It is actually somewhat saddening that the catalog was discontinued as it was a great repository of knowledge all in one place, and the perfect source to find out about new discoveries and changes to what we collect. Thanks to the diligence and efforts of people like the late Bob Lemke, who used to be editor of the catalog, who would research and investigate new found information and details and then make the appropriate and warranted updates to the catalog each year. There really isn't anyone or any group that I'm aware of that is still keeping track of such changes, and updating and making it all available to the public, at least not at the volume and level of information that was in the SCD catalogs. Even revered and often quoted reference sources like Lew Lipset's card encyclopedia, or the Goodwin - Old Judge book by Jay, Joe, and Richard, have omissions and errors in them that weren't discovered or proven till after their publications. An udate to the descriptions of these W711 sets in the SCD catalogs would have been a great way to disseminate this info to the collecting public. Sadly, that isn't happening anymore.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by todeen

I saw the set and fell in love. It's beautiful. I always thought the set was team issued, but Chris Gamble shared an advertisement about a year ago that the set was produced and distributed by the local dairy company. A new card would arrive with the milk! The lesser known players are the hardest to find and command prices similar to or higher than the stars.

Tim, interesting stuff. I have not heard about the dairy distribution before. Any more that you can elaborate about the W711-1 set, and/or can you share the ad image or provide a link?

Brian

[todeen]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Tim, interesting stuff. I have not heard about the dairy distribution before. Any more that you can elaborate about the W711-1 set, and/or can you share the ad image or provide a link?

Brian

Member Bumpus Jones (Chris Gamble) is the person who shared this picture of the description with me. He shared it on our Facebook group. I'm not sure what book he has that he dug it out of.

[Clydewally]

Hi Bob,

Answers to your questions below. Sorry for the late response. I got caught up watching TV.

You said the goal was to have a HOFer's card from their active playing days, which obviously makes some of the 19th century guys super tough (and real expensive). Anyway, that gave me a few questions I wanted to ask about your HOFer collection then, and what you accept as an apprpriate part of it. Okay, here goes.

1. Just out of curiosity, what 19th century HOFers have you not been able to get a card from their playing days for yet?

There are a bunch of these and mostly because they are so expensive and not because I could not find them. I have generally paid less than $1,000 for my cards (I remember being guilt stricken when I spent $600 on a Honus Wagner CJ in the 90s). So folks like Ed Delehanty have always been too expensive.

2. As a follow-up to Question#1 then, would/do you go ahead and maybe use a card from a later set, after they were done playing, as a placeholder till you can eventually find a contemporary card from their playing days?

No, but if a Hall guy was a coach or manager and had a card in a set I considered that I needed that (so for example, Bill Dickey in the 1952 Topps set).

3. And what do consider as "cards" for your set? Does it have to be true cards, or can it be an Exhibit card, Post Card, pins, buttons, team cards or pictures, how about some type of premium or insert, or anything else for that matter?

I used to be quite fussy about this, but some of my favorite cards are post cards, like Novelty Cutlery and PC796. I also have quite a few exhibits. I don't count pins, buttons or team cards.

4. And what about someone who got into the HOF not for when they actually played, but for their managerial or other baseball work after they were done playing? Do you still have to have a card from their playing days, or wouldn't it be more appropriate to have a contempary card while they were actually involved in what really got them into the HOF? (Connie Mack immediately comes to mind for this question.)

I collect managers, umpires and executives. One of the hardest cards, for some reason, was Joe McCarthy. I had him with Dimaggio, but was not satisfied until I got him on the 1936 Canadian Goudey. There are plenty of cards of commissioners and managers. Not so many of Hall of Fame executives, particularly when they were active. I have the Branch Rickey CJ and a St Louis Cardinals issue. I have Comiskey as a player. There is a Barney Dreyfus 1910 Tip Top I always get outbid on. But there are others that I don't think have a card. The majority of umpires do have a card and I collect them.

I agree with your observation about Connie Mack and the same goes for John McGraw, Leo Durocher, Billy Southwroth, Joe Torre and others.

5. Are you also including HOF managers, umpires, and baseball exutives who may have never actually played in the majors, but did have cards (or other items) issued with them on it?

Yep, see the answer to 4.

6. And when you say HOFer, does it specifically have to be Cooperstown? What about Canton? Jim Thorpe, Earle'Greasy' Neale, and George Halas iimediately come to mind from the pre-war days.

I have cards of Greasy Neale for that reason. I would buy a Thorpe if it was affordable. I also collect hall of fame football autographs and have a Halas Grand Slam card and a Thorpe photo signed.

Always wanted to ask a HOF collector questions like this. Hope you don't mind. (This would probably be a good separate thread itself, but guessing it may have already been done before.)

Happy to answer the questions. The whole thread has been fun to read.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Clydewally

Hi Bob,

Answers to your questions below. Sorry for the late response. I got caught up watching TV.

You said the goal was to have a HOFer's card from their active playing days, which obviously makes some of the 19th century guys super tough (and real expensive). Anyway, that gave me a few questions I wanted to ask about your HOFer collection then, and what you accept as an apprpriate part of it. Okay, here goes.

1. Just out of curiosity, what 19th century HOFers have you not been able to get a card from their playing days for yet?

There are a bunch of these and mostly because they are so expensive and not because I could not find them. I have generally paid less than $1,000 for my cards (I remember being guilt stricken when I spent $600 on a Honus Wagner CJ in the 90s). So folks like Ed Delehanty have always been too expensive.

2. As a follow-up to Question#1 then, would/do you go ahead and maybe use a card from a later set, after they were done playing, as a placeholder till you can eventually find a contemporary card from their playing days?

No, but if a Hall guy was a coach or manager and had a card in a set I considered that I needed that (so for example, Bill Dickey in the 1952 Topps set).

3. And what do consider as "cards" for your set? Does it have to be true cards, or can it be an Exhibit card, Post Card, pins, buttons, team cards or pictures, how about some type of premium or insert, or anything else for that matter?

I used to be quite fussy about this, but some of my favorite cards are post cards, like Novelty Cutlery and PC796. I also have quite a few exhibits. I don't count pins, buttons or team cards.

4. And what about someone who got into the HOF not for when they actually played, but for their managerial or other baseball work after they were done playing? Do you still have to have a card from their playing days, or wouldn't it be more appropriate to have a contempary card while they were actually involved in what really got them into the HOF? (Connie Mack immediately comes to mind for this question.)

I collect managers, umpires and executives. One of the hardest cards, for some reason, was Joe McCarthy. I had him with Dimaggio, but was not satisfied until I got him on the 1936 Canadian Goudey. There are plenty of cards of commissioners and managers. Not so many of Hall of Fame executives, particularly when they were active. I have the Branch Rickey CJ and a St Louis Cardinals issue. I have Comiskey as a player. There is a Barney Dreyfus 1910 Tip Top I always get outbid on. But there are others that I don't think have a card. The majority of umpires do have a card and I collect them.

I agree with your observation about Connie Mack and the same goes for John McGraw, Leo Durocher, Billy Southwroth, Joe Torre and others.

5. Are you also including HOF managers, umpires, and baseball exutives who may have never actually played in the majors, but did have cards (or other items) issued with them on it?

Yep, see the answer to 4.

6. And when you say HOFer, does it specifically have to be Cooperstown? What about Canton? Jim Thorpe, Earle'Greasy' Neale, and George Halas iimediately come to mind from the pre-war days.

I have cards of Greasy Neale for that reason. I would buy a Thorpe if it was affordable. I also collect hall of fame football autographs and have a Halas Grand Slam card and a Thorpe photo signed.

Always wanted to ask a HOF collector questions like this. Hope you don't mind. (This would probably be a good separate thread itself, but guessing it may have already been done before.)

Happy to answer the questions. The whole thread has been fun to read.

Ken,

Thanks for answering and letting us know how you do what you do. Great collection and good luck adding to it in the future.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by todeen

Member Bumpus Jones (Chris Gamble) is the person who shared this picture of the description with me. He shared it on our Facebook group. I'm not sure what book he has that he dug it out of.

Tim,

Great info, but have a follow-up question though. The W711 cards appear to have been issued as three distinct, separate sets with the first issued in 1938, second in 1939, and third in 1940, at least according to the old SCD catalogs. So were the W711 cards supposedly being distributed by the French Bauer dairy for all three years/types, or possibly only for one (or two) of those years/types? And if not for all three, can we tell for which year(s)/type(s) they were?

We know the French Bauer Dairy had some advertising interaction with the Reds team, or at least some of the Red's players, when they put some Red's players on their milk bottle caps, but that wasn't till 1963. If the dairy was actually responsible for producing and distributing any of these W711 cards, wouldn't it make sense for them to also have the French Bauer name at least somewhere on the cards to enhance their advertising worth? If French Bauer went to the trouble and expense to have the cards produced, adding their name would be a nominal cost, at worst. That said, is it possible that the Cincinnati team was the primary producer and issuer of these W711 cards after all, and that maybe the team then also made them available to local companies like the French Bauer Dairy to use and help distribute them? Maybe French Bauer was an advertiser with the Reds team back then, and so got permission to use these cards as an incentive to get people to sign up for their delivery service. And if true, there may have been other local Cincinnati businesses distributing these W711 cards also. Just speculating.

[obctom]

Originally Posted by todeen

Member Bumpus Jones (Chris Gamble) is the person who shared this picture of the description with me. He shared it on our Facebook group. I'm not sure what book he has that he dug it out of.

I think I read that this was in the 1982 Reds Yearbook. I have to wonder about how accurate the writer of that blurb was - Livengood played for the 1939 Reds, not the 1938 team - and how in the world would they get the information that only 5 Livengood cards are in collections, especially in the pre-internet says of the early '80s? Seems quite the reach.

I've heard the rumor of a dairy distributor too, but so far I've not seen evidence of that. I've tried searching the Cincy newspapers for 1938 & 1939 and seen no mention of cards being distributed, wither by the team or an entity like a dairy; of course that proves nothing.

You'd think that the dairy (maybe the French Bauer dairy in Cincy) would have some kind of advertisement on the cards somewhere.
Also - if the dairy distributed the cards weekly, how so? By mail-in requests? With delivery of dairy products?

Trying to figure out the distribution of the W711-1 sets is quite a puzzle!

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the 1938 & 1939 distribution. Some cards issue in both years have statistical/biographical changes on the back (Berger, Derringer, Frey, Goodman, Gamble, Lombardi, McKechnie, Myers, Riggs, Walters) - and Vandy has two different fronts - yet there are several that were supposedly issued in both years, yet I've seen absolutely no difference on the backs (Craft, Davis, Gowdy, Hershberger, McCormick, Weaver and maybe Grissom).

Did the distributor just have a bunch of extras around for these guys and thus didn't re-print them? Or were they really only issued in one year and not the next?

As you can tell I've become more than slightly obsessed about this set!

Tom

[brianp-beme]

There are 12 cards that are featured in both the 1938 and 1939 W711-1 Reds sets that contain differences in their writeups on the back. Here are those cards and the differences between the two years (In most cases I have provided little snippets from the respective bios to identify them below):

Wally Berger:

1938 - "in a trade...in June"
1939 - "in a trade...in June, 1938"

Paul Derringer:

1938 - "Won 22 games...this season"
1939 - "Won 21 games...last year"

Linus Frey:

1938 - "only 25 now"
1939 - "only 26 now"

Lee Gamble:

1938 - "Syracuse last year"
1939 - "Syracuse in 1937"

Ival Goodman:

1938 - No mention of 30 homers
1939 - Mentions hitting 30 homers

Lee Grissom:

1938 - No mention of 1938
1939 - Mentions 1938

Ernie Lombardi:

1938 - No mention of 1938 MVP
1939 - Mentions 1938 MVP

Bill McKechnie:

1938 - "Last year he led..."
1939 - "In 1937 he led..."

Lloyd "Whitey" Moore:

1938 - "Last year with Syracuse"
1939 - "In 1937 with Syracuse"

Billly Myers:

1938 - "In his fourth year"
1939 - "In his fifth year"

Lee Riggs:

1938 - "In his fourth season"
1939 - "In his fifth season"

Wm. "Bucky" Walters:

1938 - "Won 14 games"
1939 - "Won 15 games"


And the following 6 are featured in both sets but have no differences in the writeups between the years:

Harry Craft
Ray "Peaches" Davis
Harry "Hank" Gowdy
Williard Hershberger
Frank McCormick
Jim Weaver


Still not sure about distribution of the set...this still remains quite the mystery.

Brian

[Jacklitsch]

I've been at it for 45 years or so. Retired 10 years ago so have slowed down and sold most of my collection.

I currently own about 130 pre-war cards made up mostly with my 1911 Zeenut set (-2).

Over the years:

Built a T206 set (-4)
At one time had over 2,000 duplicate T206 cards
Built a C46 set
Built a 33G set
Built a 53B Color set
Built a 53B B/W sel
Built a 1911 Zeenut set (-2)
Built a Zeenut w/coupon complete run
Built a 59T set (still have it)
Built a Sporting Life Composite postcard set (-1 Detroit)


Many other cards have passed through my hands over the years. Hard to remember them all. It's been fun.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Jacklitsch

I've been at it for 45 years or so. Retired 10 years ago so have slowed down and sold most of my collection.

I currently own about 130 pre-war cards made up mostly with my 1911 Zeenut set (-2).

Over the years:

Built a T206 set (-4)
At one time had over 2,000 duplicate T206 cards
Built a C46 set
Built a 33G set
Built a 53B Color set
Built a 53B B/W sel
Built a 1911 Zeenut set (-2)
Built a Zeenut w/coupon complete run
Built a 59T set (still have it)
Built a Sporting Life Composite postcard set (-1 Detroit)


Many other cards have passed through my hands over the years. Hard to remember them all. It's been fun.

Steve,

That was an unbelievable collection, congrats. Now out of curiosity, of all the sets you did have, why hold on to the 1911 Zeenut set? Interesting choice.

[Jacklitsch]

Originally Posted by BobC

Steve,

That was an unbelievable collection, congrats. Now out of curiosity, of all the sets you did have, why hold on to the 1911 Zeenut set? Interesting choice.

Good question Bob. Guess it's the love of the chase looking to someday complete it.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by jacklitsch

good question bob. Guess it's the love of the chase looking to someday complete it.

+1,000

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by BobC

Hey Tim,
A Reds W-711 partial set, wow!!! Now there's a set you really never see or hear about. I know literally nothing about that set, and don't remember it ever being listed in the old SCD catalogs either. Would love to hear some info/background about the set, and what it was that prompted you to start collecting it.

Bob, I believe the W711-1 and W711-2 sets have long been listed in the Standard Catalog. I have several old editions of the SC, and I just pulled my 2011 and 2003 editions at random and checked. These 2 sets are listed in both of these editions under "1939 Cincinnati Reds Team Issue" and "1940 Cincinnati Reds Team Issue," respectively.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Bob, I believe the W711-1 and W711-2 sets have long been listed in the Standard Catalog. I have several old editions of the SC, and I just pulled my 2011 and 2003 editions at random and checked. These 2 sets are listed in both of these editions under "1939 Cincinnati Reds Team Issue" and "1940 Cincinnati Reds Team Issue," respectively.

Thanks Val,

In a later post from that one you quoted, I had already realized and acknowledged that they were listed in the SCD catalogs after all (See post #49). I was initially stumped because they weren't listed under W711 in the SCD catalog. I had heard and was aware of the W711 sets, just not where SCD was showing them. Live and learn. LOL

Also, check out the #49 post regarding the additional info Tim supplied about how those may not have been team issued after after all, and were instead delivered through a local Cincinnati dairy. Interested to hear your thought on that subject.

Also can't wait to see your response to the survey, if I can twist your arm to do it. LOL

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by BobC

YThanks Val,

In a later post from that one you quoted, I had already realized and acknowledged that they were listed in the SCD catalogs after all (See post #49). I was initially stumped because they weren't listed under W711 in the SCD catalog. I had heard and was aware of the W711 sets, just not where SCD was showing them. Live and learn. LOL

Also, check out the #49 post regarding the additional info Tim supplied about how those may not have been team issued after after all, and were instead delivered through a local Cincinnati dairy. Interested to hear your thought on that subject.

Bob, sorry that I missed your acknowledgement in post #49 that the W711 sets are listed in the Standard Catalog. I have no thoughts to add re how these cards might have been issued, as I never had any of these cards nor really had any interest in them.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Bob, sorry that I missed your acknowledgement in post #49 that the W711 sets are listed in the Standard Catalog. I have no thoughts to add re how these cards might have been issued, as I never had any of these cards nor really had any interest in them.

No problem Val. And I was actually more interested in your take on the fact that we no longer have a comprehensive source like SCD being revised and updated every year. Tim's comments on where the W711 set supposedly truly came from got me thinking it.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by BobC

No problem Val. And I was actually more interested in your take on the fact that we no longer have a comprehensive source like SCD being revised and updated every year. Tim's comments commments the W711 supposedly truly came from got me thinking it.

Bob, I also lament the demise of the Standard Catalog. I think the current best hope for a comprehensive source of info re pre-War cards is the Old Cardboard website: https://oldcardboard.com/

[BobC]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Bob, I also lament the demise of the Standard Catalog. I think the current best hope for a comprehensive source of info re pre-War cards is the Old Cardboard website: https://oldcardboard.com/

Val , Does make sense, but how many know about and actually use their site? And then, how hard and diligent are the OBC guys in tracking down info and leads in order to make necessary changes? That is not their jobs to keep up on the things like it was for the SCD staff. And I remember when Bob Lemke was a member on here and always checking up on things that were posted and being found out, like this comment earlier in this thread about how W711 cards may not have been team issued after all. Or people would just contact Bob Lemke from here directly and let him know about new discoveries, and possible changes. Do the OBC guys have a dedicated contact line or person for anything like that? And anyway, OBC doesn't keep track of and report on and provide checklists for anywhere near the number of sets included in the old SCD catalogs.

I just did a quick look at the OBC site and there is no mention of W711 cards in the checklist section, nor any description of the set, card dimensions, illustrative picture of what a W711 card looks like, or anything. So if this revelation about the W711 cards actually being a dairy issue and not a team issue turns out to be true, where can that now be updated and reported so that collectors going forward can have a reliable source to easily look up and access this corrected information on the set......nowhere that I know of anymore now that the SCD catalog is gone.

And if I remember hearing correctly, didn't the grading companies even sometimes refer to and rely on the SCD catalog for information and verification of existing cards and sets? So what do they all do now if something previously unknown is discovered? Who is the single, new, and universally recognized authority in the hobby now that virtually every collector, dealer, and TPG will let make the call on what that newly discovered item is and go along with that authority's decision? I believe it used to be SCD, any more, I don't think there is one.

And this is no knock against the OBC guys and their site, they and their site are fantastic!!!!!! It's just that nobody before or ever since has turned out a single baseball card refererence source anywhere even approaching the sheer volume, size and overall inclusiveness of what was being reported in the annual SCD catalogs relative to baseball cards, going all the way back to their deemed beginning in 1869.