the list (of criminals) is revealed

[tazdmb]

Originally Posted by PM770

Isn't PSA a publicly traded company?

While their stock holdings are likely too small to be reportable to the SEC so we could never know, isn't it likely that members of this so-called "Board of Experts" own some stock?

Yes, PSA is a subsidiary of Collector's Universe-a NASDAQ publicly traded stock that is up for the day

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Any other Net54 members want to come clean?

JC Clarke - multiple items consigned / all shilled by Jay Dyer
Kevin Struss - on the shill list once / but the victim far more often - any explanation?
...

JC was already known as one of the Mastro shillers. The extent was not known though. I wonder who Jay Dyer is?

[1880nonsports]

I corrected my post. I was writing as it was posted.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

JC was already known as one of the Mastro shillers. The extent was not known though. I wonder who Jay Dyer is?

But he isn't listed as a Shiller at all on the list...only a consignor.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

41 Apr‐07 1512 Joe Orlando (consignor) Bill Mastro and Andrew Filipowski (shill bidders) Rob Rosen (Winner) $85,245.00 (winning price) $19,099.00 (loss amount)

Now what do you say?

Nothing. Joe isn't the owner. If David Hall's name were on the list it would be a much different story.

While you are at it please post the item that he consigned.

Edit: And nice to see it wasn't him.

[1880nonsports]

to think the consignor was unaware of the shilling. Think that could only happen if the house had access to a maximum bid - which they apparently did - so I guess it's possible :-) Besides, I think husband of tammy copped to it.......

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by tazdmb

Yes, PSA is a subsidiary of Collector's Universe-a NASDAQ publicly traded stock that is up for the day

The stock is currently up as you said. Let's face it if SGC were a publicly traded company the shares would have gapped down 40% on this news.

To the person who suggested employees may own shares. That is probably true. But just like I work for a bank and could own shares in it, I am not the principle owner and have no ability to control what goes on at the company.

A far cry from the actual owner of a private company who directly calls the shots.

[PM770]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

To the person who suggested employees may own shares. That is probably true. But just like I work for a bank and could own shares in it, I am not the principle owner and have no ability to control what goes on at the company.

A far cry from the actual owner of a private company who directly calls the shots.

That makes your "See an owner?" comment inane. Of course not, they don't really have an "owner" in the sense you were talking. Just stockholders.

Is there a name related to PSA that would have bothered you?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

But he isn't listed as a Shiller at all on the list...only a consignor.

It's pretty obvious if you are consignor and the shiller is the same guy on every one of your consigned lots that there is a conspiracy to shill by the consignor.

And I've now seen information that his shill bidder possibly works for another auction house.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by PM770

That makes your "See an owner?" comment inane. Of course not, they don't really have an "owner" in the sense you were talking. Just stockholders.

Is there a name related to PSA that would have bothered you?

David Hall, If his name was listed their stock would be down today for sure. Founder and president. Closest thing to the owner of SGC.

SGC is a private company. Much different corporate structure.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

It's pretty obvious if you are consignor and the shiller is the same guy on every one of your consigned lots that there is a conspiracy to shill by the consignor.

And I've now seen information that his shill bidder possibly works for another auction house.

He is listed on Huggins' website.

N. & Cent. Fla/S. Ga Rep:
Jay Dyer

[PM770]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

David Hall, If his name was listed their stock would be down today for sure. Founder and president. Closest thing to the owner of SGC.

SGC is a private company. Much different corporate structure.

Beyond the stock being down, would it have bothered you.

[Stonepony]

http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/more...ticle-1.121333

My brain is hanging upside down..

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Jeffrompa

Makes me want to open a pizza shop . It's kind of disturbing to the soul .

There is no need to drag pizza into this. After all, we are not animals.

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by PM770

Beyond the stock being down, would it have bothered you.

Certainly. These revelations are not a positive for the hobby.

If you think I am happy that the owners of SGC are wrapped up in this scandal it couldn't be further from the truth.

The stock market takes no sympathy on anyone and shoots first and then asks questions later. The reality of it is that this type of news would be bad for any company and the market would price it in immediately.

[PM770]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

Certainly. These revelations are not a positive for the hobby.

If you think I am happy that the owners of SGC are wrapped up in this scandal it couldn't be further from the truth.

The stock market takes no sympathy on anyone and shoots first and then asks questions later. The reality of it is that this type of news would be bad for any company and the market would price it in immediately.

Shouldn't it be bothering that members of a "Board of Experts" are involved in this? We aren't talking about one rouge grader.

Let's also not forget about the Wagner. Wasn't David Hall was involved in that?

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

to think the consignor was unaware of the shilling. Think that could only happen if the house had access to a maximum bid - which they apparently did - so I guess it's possible :-) Besides, I think husband of tammy copped to it.......

I never said that JC didn't know...I simply stated that he wasn't the one doing the shilling. It's pretty clear that he was in the know based on the number of times his name is associated with Jay Dyer (now working for Huggins & Scott) and Shane Mooney (anyone know who that is?).

And I missed those old posts from husbandoftammy where he fessed up. I was off the Net54 site for a long stretch during that timeframe.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

I never said that JC didn't know...I simply stated that he wasn't the one doing the shilling. It's pretty clear that he was in the know based on the number of times his name is associated with Jay Dyer (now working for Huggins & Scott) and Shane Mooney (anyone know who that is?).

And I missed those old posts from husbandoftammy where he fessed up. I was off the Net54 site for a long stretch during that timeframe.

I believe they have testimony of Allen calling Clarke and asking if he wanted to "bump it" referring to upping the bid on one of his items. This came out a while back. I don't think Clarke has fessed up to it, but he never denied it when called on it a few times here in the recent past.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Dpeck100

If you think I am happy that the owners of SGC are wrapped up in this scandal it couldn't be further from the truth.

Yes, I do think that. You ONLY come over here from across the street to either (1) bash SGC or (2) when there is controversy about a CU (of former CU) member. That's the only time you show up.

[midmo]

I ran across this article from 26 years ago while googling some of the names on the list...

http://articles.philly.com/1989-10-1...baseball-cards

One of the most revealing moments of the convention came at a seminar on ethics. In a convention that attracted 382 dealers and more than 37,000 collectors, eight people showed up to discuss moral issues.

"That pretty much tells you all you need to know about the ethics of this business," said dealer Stan Marks of Scottsdale, Ariz. "Nobody gives a damn."

[bobbyw8469]

There isn't one person on any of these boards that would have withstood the hazing I took and never once complained or went to the mods. I obviously have a set. Thank you very much.]

Uhmmmm.....you don't have the lock in that department Davey boy! Trust me. There was someone before you that was hazed and never went to the mods.

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I'm shocked that Dave Forman's lawyer hasn't made a comment yet.

Good one!

[h2oya311]

Who's keeping a tally:

Peter Calderon from Heritage
PSA's "Board of Experts" + Authenticators
Dave Forman - Owner of SGC
Kevin Keating of Quality Autographs
Ken Goldin from Goldin Auctions
TJ Schwartz of SCD
Kevin Struss of Baseball Rarities
other Net54 Members (you know who you are)

Events leading up to "the list"...

REA president retires;
SGC moves to Florida;
Leon sells collection

Okay, the first and last ones are probably a stretch...just sayin'

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Who's keeping a tally:

Peter Calderon from Heritage
PSA's "Board of Experts" + Authenticators
Dave Forman - Owner of SGC
Kevin Keating of Quality Autographs
Ken Goldin from Goldin Auctions
TJ Schwartz of SCD
Kevin Struss of Baseball Rarities
other Net54 Members (you know who you are)

Events leading up to "the list"...

REA president retires;
SGC moves to Florida;
Leon sells collection

Okay, the first and last ones are probably a stretch...just sayin'

I really see it as a conflict of interest for a grader to grade a card if that grader owns the same type of card and grade..

if POP is 1 on a card at a SGC 8 and carries a $1000+ price...I wouldn't want to see another of those cards achieve a SGC 8 for example which would double the POP and lower the value of my own card...

[Econteachert205]

I do not think it will effect clct collectors universe stock. It will not impact the core business of submissions or the registry. SGC is a different story. Anyone on the fence about which grader to use will move away from them. Maybe a small boost for beckett. The real losers will be the individual auctions involved and already mentioned.

[rsdill2]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Who's keeping a tally:

Peter Calderon from Heritage
PSA's "Board of Experts" + Authenticators
Dave Forman - Owner of SGC
Kevin Keating of Quality Autographs
Ken Goldin from Goldin Auctions
TJ Schwartz of SCD
Kevin Struss of Baseball Rarities
other Net54 Members (you know who you are)

Events leading up to "the list"...

REA president retires;
SGC moves to Florida;
Leon sells collection

Okay, the first and last ones are probably a stretch...just sayin'

I don't know who he is but John Reznikoff is listed on SGC webpage under the "our staff" section with his expertise listed as "historical & political"

He's all over the document listed as both a consignor and shiller

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rsdill2

I don't know who he is but John Reznikoff is listed on SGC webpage under the "our staff" section with his expertise listed as "historical & political"

He's all over the document listed as both a consignor and shiller

He is also a PSA expert.
http://www.psacard.com/Experts/

If you google him you will see he has had some controversy/mistaken authentications.

[The Nasty Nati]

Wow this could really hurt SGC. I'm a big fan of theirs but yikes.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by The Nasty Nati

Wow this could really hurt SGC. I'm a big fan of theirs but yikes.

i fail to see how this will hurt sgc. you mean after reading this you're gonna send the n167 to psa or beckett instead of sgc? i wonder if mastro will give me an auction credit for the $506 i was shilled out of? too bad we don't have the whole history.

anyone remember wesley liu? he was shilled on only a few lots but the loss % is huge compared to the final prices.

[Bpm0014]

Peter, Greg...it's not an easy thing to do to admit that you were wrong and messed up. I don't know either one of you, but I appreciate you guys coming forward and at least explaining your side of the story. Would have been very easy to just lay low.

[ezez420]

Na

[conor912]

Originally Posted by conor912

>25k

In the first 24 hours, that is.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Who's keeping a tally:

Peter Calderon from Heritage
PSA's "Board of Experts" + Authenticators
Dave Forman - Owner of SGC
Kevin Keating of Quality Autographs
Ken Goldin from Goldin Auctions
TJ Schwartz of SCD
Kevin Struss of Baseball Rarities
other Net54 Members (you know who you are)

Events leading up to "the list"...

REA president retires;
SGC moves to Florida;
Leon sells collection

Okay, the first and last ones are probably a stretch...just sayin'

Add that Goldin acquired Legendary's intellectual property including Legendary's mailing list.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by rdwyer

If Peter Calderon for example shill bidded, does that mean Heritage Auctions shill bids in their auctions?

Heaven forbid.
I would think that an auction house that bars me from bidding, and from their website, for having my autograph opinions quoted in Nash's HOS (they said I worked for him, did not know giving opinions would be called working) would not also be a shill bidder.
fyi - I never bid with them on anything.

[packs]

Is the only tactic available to bidders to counter act this stuff placing straight bids only?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ezez420

Wow. This quote was when this happened to me on a Pop 2 card with me owning 1. I can only guess who owns/owned the 2nd. Wow you couldnt have said it better. A very high profile card for that matter besides.

so my comments have been useful to the net54 community I take it...yeah others like to say I rattle on....

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I have not won an item from Goldin auctions, but was watching stuff in the current auction. Does anyone think that his name being on the list will have negative results this weekend?

It should! I would demand an explanation before bidding further. In fact, I don't plan to purchase / bid in any auction affiliated with those on the shill list until the person involved comes on net54 to explain their actions.

As I've said in other threads before, the only way to clean up this hobby is for people to STOP SUPPORTING those who are dirty. Otherwise you only have yourself to blame for future abuse.

Jeff Payne

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Heaven forbid.
I would think that an auction house that bars me from bidding, and from their website, for having my autograph opinions quoted in Nash's HOS (they said I worked for him, did not know giving opinions would be called working) would not also be a shill bidder.

Heritage has a Hall of Fame Library thief working for them...doubt they even care about this.

[ullmandds]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezez420
Wow. This quote was when this happened to me on a Pop 2 card with me owning 1. I can only guess who owns/owned the 2nd. Wow you couldnt have said it better. A very high profile card for that matter besides.
so my comments have been useful to the net54 community I take it...yeah others like to say I rattle on....


well...atleast that 1 comment...to that 1 person!

[howard38]

Originally Posted by Snowman5520

You know what is most infuriating about this mess?! Last spring I taught a card collecting class to my students. Many members on here donated cards/supplies to us and they LOVED it. It was collecting in its purest form and was great to see. I know there are thousands of honest collectors out there and I will convey that to these kids......but I do have a few questions:

How am I supposed to explain to them what this group of lying, cheating, SCUMBAGS managed to do to the hobby? I don't care if you are a member of this board or not......how am I supposed to explain to these kids that a bunch of greedy adults took one of the most wonderful hobbies in the world and turned it into something VILE and DISGUSTING?!

There probably isn't any reason to explain it to them. This barely made a peep in the mainstream media so unless the kids are following a forum like net54 they probably haven't heard about it.

[ullmandds]

I'm disappointed...I am...but in reality all aspects of life are filled with corruption. The best at a given skill/sport/vocation is almost always flawed in some way.

So we now all know for sure what we pretty much knew already. People will go to jail...some will leave the hobby...most wont. Many reputations will be trashed and ethics/morals questioned.

It seems to me the climate was/is that pretty much everyone is doing it...so if everyone is founds to be doing the same bad things...the repercussions wont be so bad as if it were just a few.

Hasn't something like this happened in just about every other type of collecting known to man.

I still love the cards...I always will. So now I know for sure what I pretty much already knew...I have been overpaying for my "stuff" for years.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by packs

Is the only tactic available to bidders to counter act this stuff placing straight bids only?

Unfortunately, I think the only tactic to counter this shilling going on is to only bid in the Net54 Live Auctions where you know all of the bidder names for every auction.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Heritage has a Hall of Fame Library thief working for them...doubt they even care about this.

I didn't know library thieves had a hall of fame. Is it in Ohio and if so anywhere near the IX Center?

Sorry...resume witch hunt.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by glchen

Unfortunately, I think the only tactic to counter this shilling going on is to only bid in the Net54 Live Auctions where you know all of the bidder names for every auction.

gonna be some slim pickins!

[Mark]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I'm disappointed...I am...but in reality all aspects of life are filled with corruption. The best at a given skill/sport/vocation is almost always flawed in some way.

So we now all know for sure what we pretty much knew already. People will go to jail...some will leave the hobby...most wont. Many reputations will be trashed and ethics/morals questioned.

It seems to me the climate was/is that pretty much everyone is doing it...so if everyone is founds to be doing the same bad things...the repercussions wont be so bad as if it were just a few.

Hasn't something like this happened in just about every other type of collecting known to man.

This sort of thing happens a lot in many places, such as Russia.

[rdwyer]

Heaven forbid.
I would think that an auction house that bars me from bidding, and from their website, for having my autograph opinions quoted in Nash's HOS (they said I worked for him, did not know giving opinions would be called working) would not also be a shill bidder.
fyi - I never bid with them on anything.

I was using Peter Calderon for an example. Others involved with AH's did the same thing. So does that mean those companies would also shill bid with their latest auction? The lesson I learned from all this, is not to trust any of the AH's.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Mark

This sort of thing happens a lot in many places, such as Russia.

ha...much worse happens in russia!

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I didn't know library thieves had a hall of fame. Is it in Ohio and if so anywhere near the IX Center?

Sorry...resume witch hunt.

???

[Econteachert205]

In soviet Russia bids shill you!

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

In soviet Russia bids shill you!

Great post.