moral question

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Posted By: leon

Hey Folks,
If I do not like the way someone has done me in auctions before do I have the right, moral, legal, or ethically, to cancel them from my auctions on ebay now? best regards

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Posted By: leon

I should have said "what someone has done to me" ......I am not thinking tonight....sorry....best regards

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Posted By: Brian

leon...ask your wife for the obvious answer!

hey pal,using your comb?? hee hee

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Posted By: petecld

I have banned people from bidding in my auctions for the following reasons:

- the payment bounced.

- the payment never arrived.

- one guy e-mailed me asking to end an auction and when I said no he used abusive language. He isn't on ebay anymore, or at least has a new ID, thanks in part to me.

Not sure what the offense was but the way I see it, why let someone waste your time twice.

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Nuke the f--k!

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Posted By: leon

that comb inuendo hurt.....if you folks don't know, I have very little hair left and Brian sent me a comb with about 3 teeth on it and they are all spread out......as far as the bidder I will probably just let it go......it is a board member that sniped me and then blew me off when I told him he should have just asked and I would have let him have it......a little common courtesy goes a long ways......and that is not to say that I will NEVER snipe it's just that if I know it is a board member I will let them know that I will be going for the card...... best regards all...

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

Leon:

I just checked the eBay rules and you can block anyone you want for any reason you want.

Q. How can I decide whom I want to block?
A. It will be based on your own experience with buyers. We always encourage you to work things out with your trading partners. However, we understand unfavorable things might happen, so you may find this tool useful to protect your own interests.

I usually don't snipe on items where the high bidder is someone I know and I have even refrained totally from bidding on things that folks I know are bidding on just so I don't drive the price up unnecessarily. But a courtesy email would certainly be in order if you really wanted to bid on something just to see if the other person was intending to be a "serious" bidder or not.

In your case, I agree with Jay.

Kevin

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Posted By: runscott

I still believe that sniping can save the bidders money in certain instances - I once paid $105 for a $30 card because I got in a bidding war (I eventually sold it for $33). You get in your mind what you're willing to pay, but then you go wild for no logical reason (male testosterone?) - if we had both waited and sniped each other at the end with our "realistic" amount, I bet the card would have gone for closer to the real value (maybe I would have lost).

On the other hand, if I see a board member on the bid list, I place a small bid as a warning that I'm interested, then either blow it off later or sometimes snipe - but I never bid the price up if I'm not serious. In the future I will definitely send an e-mail if I'm serious and recognize the bidder's handle. But I really appreciate any "fair bidding" suggestions from y'all, as these are only pieces of cardboard, not people.

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Posted By: leon

But if I see someone that I know I don't just snipe them at the end. Again, in my opinion it is common courtesy. I am not saying we should conspire on every card but "what comes around goes around". I assure you it is not a money thing ($50.00) why I feel the way I do about that individual. It is his response when I told him he should have just told me he wanted it. In the long run it will come back to him.....I guarantee it........best regards all !!

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Posted By: Jeff O.

Leon, maybe I'm way off base, but it sounds to me like you were considering banning someone from your auctions who didn't break any rules. I know sniping isn't always popular, and many don't consider it "cricket", but there is no rule against it. Is it rude to snipe someone you know from the board? Maybe... seems a little harsh to ban someone for something like that, though.

Jeff Obermeyer

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Posted By: leon

the actual snipe is only half the reason. The other half is the snide ass remark he made when I politely said he should have asked....shoot....Tbob sniped me and then said "whoops sorry".....and it was no big deal....no harm no foul...I would still bend over backwards to help him.........it is the way the situation was handled AFTER the fact on both of those accounts.....and yes, I agree banning someone for JUST sniping me would be immature on my part..... I have already made a decision to let it go anyway......what's done is done....and hopefully the card will meet the reserve.....best regards..

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

bid on something that someone you know saw first and bid on first (but what if he, too is sniping? Then you wouldn't know!). Giving an early bid as a warning of interest is an excellent idea. But it makes infinitely more sense to bid the most, most you would possibly bid with six seconds left than with 6 days, doesn't it? Do you want to give others a chance to outbid you or bid up under you? Snipe, for goodness sake! Sometimes you get out-sniped--that's a kick in the head.

People even try sniping on regular auctions. They wait until they're sure you've gone to sleep, and then they bid.

I haven't bid on e-bay for a couple of months--a scan can tell a thousand lies. I've bought a couple of things from Terry Knause, from Kit Young, and some photos in the Oser and Mastro auctions.

Julie

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Posted By: Anonymous

...and lew Lipset.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I have been on ebay for over a year and was unaware that sniping was such an issue until I got sniped by TBOB. He immediately sent me an email explaining why and that he didn't like the practice. Up to that point I just thought it was usual practice if you wanted to make sure you won the bid.

I still snipe on items I want, but not against people i have have good experience with, including many on this board. I even recently backed off of bidding on a card I because the high bidder recently bought a card from me that I thought was double what it was worth.

The email as a courtesy sounds like a great idea. I also agree with hiding your top bid until the end of the auction.

Great Topic!!!!!

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Posted By: runscott

I've only gotten really irritated at two snipers. I was looking for a copy of an early Spaldings Baseball Guide so that I would have a better knowledge of players on early tobacco cards - this person kept sniping at the end to beat me. After he had won his third consecutive copy of the same exact Guide, I was very peeved - especially since I wanted it to read, not to sell in a store! Same thing happened with Ruth and Gehrig supplements - a different sniper grabbed multiple copies of the same supplements in a two-week period. The Spalding sniper has been paying dearly for his Baseball Guides ever since thanks to yours truly...and will continue to ad infinitum.
It's been a great day - I lost my meat thermometer and the turkey was still perfect!...food coma...

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Posted By: Jaime Leiderman

(EOM)

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Posted By: JMK

I can certainly agree that if someone sniped you and was then rude/dismissive when you suggested he could have let you know his interest in the card...well that's not good in any case but surely since it was a board member it must feel all the worse.

No, nothing's written anywhere. No, he didn't do anything technically wrong. But now that Leon's brought it up maybe that's not a bad unwritten rule/understood courtesy for people who recognize one another from here. Not to drive off anyone or make anyone feel he/she can't or shouldn't bid. More so card prices don't spiral for no good reason and maybe a spot of politeness and grace in a dog-eat-dog arena. I like it!

As to blocking him? Well Leon, for my two cents, you might refer him to this thread so he can get a sense of the board feel on the issue and then ask him if he has changed his feelings on it after reading the board.

Joann

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Posted By: JMK

MikeSchmidt,

I completely agree with you on being hesitant to check the bid lists for board members and make bidding decisions based on that, or feel pressure to make some 'agreements' with other bidders just because they are board members. I didn't take this topic quite that way.

I interpreted it more as a courtesy..'hey I just wanted to let you know I'm going for this card too'. Just that, a courtesy. From there one or two things could happen:

1) Both people could agressively pursue the card in the spirit of intense and friendly competition - which certainly does happen, and regularly!

2) One person who had only lukewarm interest in the card might be more inclined to back off rather than get caught up in a heat-of-the-moment bidding war.

Maybe that's kind of a perfect world view of two outcomes. What I would not support at all was if 'courtesy notices' started making individual bidders feel like they shouldn't bid, put some pressure on them to back off and let another board member get the card, etc. I didn't read that kind of intent into this thread, but you are completely right in that if it were to turn into that kind of situation it would cause far more trouble than good.

FWIW

Joann

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Posted By: MikeSchmidt

Leon:

I would be interested to hear any more details that you can provide about this individual that has caused you so many problems. That he is simply a board member in my mind doesn't enable any sort of "please let's talk before bidding each other up policy". Is this a person with whom you have regularly communicated? Do you two share stories/make trades/find cards for one another? I would just like to hear more about the nature and background of the relationship that you have with this problem person.

Though there are many people with whom I chat, and many boards on which I stay, I would say that there are only about a dozen or so individuals with whom I would feel comfortable to regularly communicate and "help" each other out on auctions through non-bids, etc.

From a devil's advocate perspective, when there are too many bidders involved in a "I'm not going to bid, so you can win at a lower price" scheme, I do not find the end effects that much different from shill bidding by the dealer's friends to raise the final hammer price. Helping out friends pick up key materials in certain cases seems fine, but conspiring to keep prices artificially low on a continued basis doesn't seem entirely fair.

Sorry for the rambling, but I am hesitant to take any sides in this matter without really knowing more about the relationship you have with this other individual.

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Posted By: MW

I think that Jeff makes some very good points on this subject -- sniping is certainly not against the rules on eBay; however, collusion between bidders to buy something at a lower price could, in some cases, be construed to be auction interference. Besides, I know of many circumstances where sniping actually prevents items from selling at an inflated price. More often than not, competitive bidding well before an item ends is more responsible for higher prices than sniping. If sniping is a problem for some bidders, I would just recommend setting a maximum bid amount and leaving it at that.

Granted, there are some individuals who are more computer literate and who are able to use various techniques and programs for bidding at the last nanosecond -- but this is an integral part of Internet auctions. It should not be viewed as something unusual or unexpected. EBay is a great way for hobbyists to acquire items that they previously would have had trouble locating; along with this "privilege" comes other technological "devices" that may be undesirable for some. That is part of the dynamic nature of transacting business on the web.

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Posted By: leon

Hey Mike,
The person that I am not too happy with has already emailed me and asked if it was he that I was posting about? I said one word "yes".....The problem I have with him is only over this one situation. Not any others. I would not say I HATE this person I would just say that he did not show common courtesy which I thought he should have. He obviously feels differently. I do NOT hate him only what he did in that one small auction AND his remarks afterwards. Hate is also too strong of a word...I would say I do not appreciate it. I will not say who he is because that was not what this post was about. It was about the generality of the topic. I do agree with whomever has said that collusion should not happen on a regular basis. I have always told folks that I know that I am interested in something and ask how interested they are in it, if that is the case. . I will continue to do that. I also agree that me asking someone how bad they want something DOES not infer that I am asking them not to bid. It does not. It only tells them that I know them, am showing common courtesy, and will possibly make a run at the card. ALL is fair. For those that think this is not good I say "ok, then you need not play".....but if you snipe me at the end and I ask about it just be polite........best regards alll.....

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Posted By: MW

Leon --

So it wasn't the actual sniping, but the other bidder's reaction to your e-mail after the auction ended...is that right?

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Posted By: MW

Leon --

Is this the auction you are referring to?

T204 Ramly P.J. Moran Square variation PSA 2 Item # 1021098817

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Posted By: john

I dont think he wants to mention it anyway.....my take on it is,i dont snipe board members unless its unknowingly(i dont know everyones ebay ID on here),and i have emailed people who were bidding on cards that i also wanted before i bid but i try to stay away....if i do bid against anyone i know,i bid my max. with at least a few hours left... i try not to make too many enemies John....also,please answer my ft washington question,whoever does,i promise ill never bid against them(promise valid in 49 states,sorry tennessee)

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Posted By: vorthian

<< The person that I am not too happy with has already emailed me and asked if it was he that I was posting about? >>

I did email you asking if I was the person in question, however I have not received word from you in any shape or form. Therefore, I cannot deduce that I am the culprit as I have no idea how many other emails you might have received along the same lines.

So again I ask...

Am I this person?

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Posted By: Jaime Leiderman

This turned out to be a nice discussion about the "real" everyday eBay practices.

I think it isn't a good thing to fingerpoint someone in a public board.
Maybe someone made a mistake or acted incorrectly, but I think this discussion has already made him think it over twice before Sniping a known member...

Leon, is up to you to make the name public...
My advice to you is that you can send the guy's name to any friend or person you may want, but in a private way.

Let's keep this EXCELLENT Board as CLEAN as it should be.


Jaime

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Posted By: leon

and the subject is over....it was a very good topic when it started and I ended up making the same decision that I would have made anyway. I just got some valid opinions so I could have more info.....This was a small thing in the big scheme of things. My feelings have not changed, mind you, I am just going to keep all the personal rhetoric off the site as much as possible....it does no one good. If it were something unethical I would spout off like Moby Dick....but it wasn't and I won't. best regards all......next subject pleaseeeeeeeee

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Posted By: vorthian

<< I think it isn't a good thing to fingerpoint someone in a public board. >>

Yeah, someone's feelings might get hurt.

<< Maybe someone made a mistake or acted incorrectly, but I think this discussion has already made him think it over twice before Sniping a known member...>>


On the contrary, since I am the person in question I will still continue my antics. What is it about a "known member" that renders them immune from being outbidded? If one used an unknown eBay alias, would it still carry the same damage that you suggest? Lastly, does this extend to the other auctions where anonymity is exhibited?

However, there are people that are "known" to me that I refuse to outbid. They know who they are.