Peter Nash and Hauls of Shame

[Rich Klein]

I was having lunch with Leon today when we started discussing hobby topics. One we discussed briefly was Mr. Nash and Hauls of Shame.

I'm just curious what your opinion is/is not about him and why

Since this thread might end up being "messy", please post ONLY if you are willing to put your name out there.

Rich

[FrankWakefield]

It is the hobby, in an effort to police itself, instead slamming itself.

One of my daughters once walked up to me in a group of folks, all of us talking. She quietly said, "Dad, quit being a spoon." I processed that, then stepped aside to ask her about what she'd said. She told me that I'm always stirring people, that instead I should leave them alone. She was right. And Mr. Nash is a spoon. Takes one to know one. At times we need spoons. But not everything needs stirring.

[RUSH2112]

I read the story about the PSA graded Wagner card on another link and I have to ask if PSA knew it was cut from a sheet but graded it as if it were not cut, are they not themselves as dishonest as the guy who cut it from the sheet in the first place?

The article below claims it was cut from a sheet and the graders admitted knowing this.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010...umerical-grade

[Wite3]

Absolutely trimmed on the Wagner...

As to Mr. Nash...I still am not sure his motives are pure (you can read about some outlandish theories on the memorabilia side too).

I do see some good coming from him now but I still sort of lump him in with the wrong side of the hobby...he is like the kid in my class who gets caught cheating on a test and for the rest of the year, does nothing but tattle, accuse and harass the other students about cheating and how bad it is...very annoying and often misguided.

Joshua

[travrosty]

Rich, you ask other people for their thoughts, but don't give yours? Why not?

Here is mine, He is trying to help recover stolen items and keep the pressure on TPA's who are in a desperate race to authenticate everything under the sun, as well as the lax internal controls at some of these auction houses which lets some of these items slip through unabated.

Some people don't want to know. They just want to be told that everything is kosher, nothing from the NYPL or the Baseball HOF was ever stolen, Halper was too trusting and never tried to deceive anybody, and that autograph you buy in a fancy slab, "encapsulated for unquestioned authenticity" as auction houses like to call it - is never a laser copy, or a wife signed autograph, or a stamp.

I guess Hauls of Shame isn't for them and they can pop in Field of Dreams or The Natural and take themselves to a world where all Wagner cards are untrimmed, and pristine. We've all been there, it's called dreaming, but sometimes we need a splash of cold water to wake up. If Hauls of Shame had no merit and the articles weren't true, no one would read it. But they do, and that's not a coincidence.

So the people who don't like the articles for whatever reason, personal or business, naturally go after the author, like attacking the author somehow negates the articles.

It doesn't matter who writes the articles, if you don't like them, you don't like them. If Vince Lombardi had wrote the articles, they would find something on him, don't worry. He would be guilty of something in short order in order to try to marginalize and discredit what he is saying. I don't compare anyone to Lombardi, just saying no one, no matter their pedigree, up, down or sideways, could write articles that expose some of this stuff that Hauls of Shame exposes without taking strafe fire from people who don't like it or have a vested interest in things staying the same. Then all of the sudden the author is a target.

I'd be a target if I was the author, they would dissect my entire life if that's what it took. But some of these same people have no problem believing some anonymous "White Betsy" who won't even reveal who they are and believe what anyway? - since I can find any names in the articles, which just lets peoples imaginations run rampant with speculation. That is irresponsible, not Hauls of Shame.

I have read everything about Nash that is out there, so there are no surprises anyone can throw at me to change my mind that his website is set up to expose and try to clean up what is an otherwise authentication error-ridden and stolen property-ridden hobby at this point in time until real reforms and investigations by authorities take place to right the ship.

If people point to Nash and say whatever they want - fine, but remember, if Nash took the exact opposite view he would be a swell guy to those same people he is now looked at as the guy who shot Santa Claus.

[wonkaticket]

Nash is a con man who due to his actions have duped and defrauded a lot of folks out of cash, enjoyment and so on.

He is running from the law in so many ways his head must be spinning from all the lawyers, judges & warrants. Like many folks in this situation his next course of action is to point fingers at others to draw attention away from his own actions. Sure some of the things he brings up are legitimate and bad stuff, but the person blowing the whistle is just as guilty. Like one criminal rolling over on another one is not a victim and one sure isn’t a hero.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Nash is a con man who due to his actions have duped and defrauded a lot of folks out of cash, enjoyment and so on.

He is running from the law in so many ways his head must be spinning from all the lawyers, judges & warrants. Like many folks in this situation his next course of action is to point fingers at others to draw attention away from his own actions. Sure some of the things he brings up are legitimate and bad stuff, but the person blowing the whistle is just as guilty. Like one criminal rolling over on another one is not a victim and one sure isn’t a hero.

John- well said but Travis will never, ever get it. He doesn't have the mental aptitude to see your, or almost everyone else's, point. Who cares what someone is doing, or has recently done, as long as that someone is pointing out those big crook auction houses. Who cares if the one doing the finger pointing is the biggest crook of all? It's ok because that darned autograph is bad. Boy, isn't that person pointing that out doing a great job! Forget all about the court cases, warrants and wrangling by the one exposing the other fraud, it's ok. Those darned big auctions.....oh wait, where did the fake memorabilia get consigned from?? Gee, how did that happen?

Yeah, I murdered 12 people but I gave a band aid to the guy with a paper cut. Am I ok now? ANSWER from Travis- "You ARE the best!!"

[Jlighter]

He accuses Halper of stealing but really doesn't say how he did it, did he just walk in one day and take the item? Did he pay someone off?

Some of his ideas may be true, but others are far too outlandish to be reasonable. We have to remember though he is in the "entertainment" business, so he does what gets views.

[E93]

John and Leon have nailed it. I don't trust the guy or his motives in any of this.
JimB

[travrosty]

One guy they do business with admits stealing from the nypl and another is barred from the baseball hof library but nash can't be allowed to expose the warts of the hobby.

But they are part of big companies that we do business with and have money to be made from, and Nash doesn't, so he can't be tolerated but we can tolerate everybody else.

Thanks for calling me names, I love it. I've been called worse. But i am trying to clean up the hobby along with HOS and the name callers want the status quo to continue, so the messenger must be massacred.

Anybody who disagrees with Leon is mentally challenged, remember that folks.

Of course this thread is going to go 9-1 against Nash but that is the reason they started it, to throw a hand grenade and then watch it blow. Calculated move, start a thread and watch people pile on knowing that anyone who thinks the HOS website is doing the hobby a service isn't going to stick their neck out only to get it chopped off.

They are objecting to HOS website for one reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx32b5igLwA

[Leon]

When everyone else is wrong you might want to look in the mirror.

Originally Posted by travrosty

One guy they do business with admits stealing from the nypl and another is barred from the baseball hof library but nash can't be allowed to expose the warts of the hobby.

But they are part of big companies that we do business with and have money to be made from, and Nash doesn't, so he can't be tolerated but we can tolerate everybody else.

Thanks for calling me names, I love it. I've been called worse. But i am trying to clean up the hobby along with HOS and the name callers want the status quo to continue, so the messenger must be massacred.

Anybody who disagrees with Leon is mentally challenged, remember that folks.

Of course this thread is going to go 9-1 against Nash but that is the reason they started it, to throw a hand grenade and then watch it blow. Calculated move, start a thread and watch people pile on knowing that anyone who thinks the HOS website is doing the hobby a service isn't going to stick their neck out only to get it chopped off.

They are objecting to HOS website for one reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx32b5igLwA

[birdman42]

Travis,

I think the misunderstanding is about what the OP asked. He didn't ask what people think about the Haul of Shame; he asked what people think about Peter Nash.

I believe that if what's in the HoS is true, then Nash is performing a valuable service. But that service doesn't make him a better person, it doesn't undo the things he did, and it doesn't make his victims whole. If he's truly repentant, and the whole HoS effort is somehow part of his payback, then good. I think the general feeling here, though, is that HoS is more of a misdirection play. "See? I'm not the only one." And that is most definitely not good.

I agree with you that some people will allow their opinion of Nash to affect their opinion of HoS. That is, they don't like Nash, and their dislike makes them think poorly about HoS. But I think many more people are able to separate their feelings about HoS from their feelings about Nash himself. That is, they like HoS, but still think poorly of Nash. I don't believe there's anybody on here who thought highly of Nash before HoS, but now thinks less of him just because of what he wrote.

To use an absurd example, would you think better of John Wayne Gacy if he gave directions to Ted Kaczynski's hideout?

Bill Todd (the one in MD, not the one in CT)

[Wite3]

Alright...I will rise to the bait...Travis...a few questions...

First, what is an autograph consultant? You listed this on a book review after your name...isn't that the same as a third party authenticator?

Your website joeheavyweight.com asks for people to use you to because, "Our 20 plus years of experience and free advice can save you $$$." It is still just your opinion right? It is not fact. Just like TPA's give opinions and not facts.

How about this scenario...a thief steals your daughter's wallet and charges up her credit cards, etc. He is caught but gets off on a technicality. Your daughter feels violated and frustrated. She is very unhappy. The thief then goes on to tell how he stole the wallet and got away with it so others can "learn from his mistakes and not get stolen from." He teaches a class at the local community college on how to spot thieves and stop them. He never makes restitution to your daughter though. How would you feel about this person? How would your daughter feel about them?

People feel about Peter Nash this way because they were HURT by him. What he does now may diminish that pain but we have not forgotten...once burned, twice shy.

Joshua

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by travrosty

But i am trying to clean up the hobby along with HOS and the name callers want the status quo to continue, so the messenger must be massacred.

Good luck in your quest to clean up the hobby via Peter Nash and his website. Let me give you a glimpse of where future round table discussions on hobby fraud between you two will most likely take place. Go get em' tiger.



Perhaps Pete will have access to a computer in the prison library for site updates.

[E93]

I would have a lot more confidence in the HOS if he detailed the fraud he is accused of committing on the hobby, came completely clean, apologized, made restitution, and explained why he has no ulterior motives in creating the website and pointing the finger all around. Without all of that, I am suspicious.
JimB

[whitehse]

I have read the HOS information but in the back of my mind there is always that nagging doubt that tells me the same guy writing about hobby fraud is allegedly the same one that created fraud in this hobby of ours. It seems (at least in my mind anyway) that any good he is doing is washed out by the crap he has done. I just cannot read the HOS without thinking that the writer is just as bad as the people he is writing about.

Recently a serial arsonist was caught in my home town. How did the police catch him? Amazingly he was at the scenes of all five, suspected arsons. Really? An honest citizen who arrives at remote fires quicker than the fire department.

The suspect even called 911 once to report a fire he had intentionally set. My question to this person and Peter Nash would be: When you light them, how do you yell fire fire, fire?!

[bh3443]

I've never met or done business with Peter. He emails me asking how I'm doing and sends his HoS links.
He's always been very kind and sincere and I appreciate it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VpZk9dGXGA

[wonkaticket]

Bill while that is very nice of Peter, and he seems to be good to you. I can't help but wonder does he call the folks he's ripped off and ask them how they are doing?

[danmckee]

I have had nothing but good conversing with Peter.

I am not a fan of his music though.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Bill while that is very nice of Peter, and he seems to be good to you. I can't help but wonder does he call the folks he's ripped off and ask them how they are doing?

John, I thought you were picking me up in that fancy spaceship you drive last week. I sat outside for 2 days waiting for you.

Peter Nash would have picked me up on time!

[wonkaticket]

Yeah...Pete is a hell of guy. I was at home making sure the paint on my trophy balls was dry.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Yeah...Pete is a hell of guy. I was at home making sure the paint on my trophy balls was dry.

oooooh.....that hurts!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

It is the hobby, in an effort to police itself, instead slamming itself.

One of my daughters once walked up to me in a group of folks, all of us talking. She quietly said, "Dad, quit being a spoon." I processed that, then stepped aside to ask her about what she'd said. She told me that I'm always stirring people, that instead I should leave them alone. She was right. And Mr. Nash is a spoon. Takes one to know one. At times we need spoons. But not everything needs stirring.

Frank, your daughter nailed it. I don't generally agree with Travosky, but the original post invited dissenting opinions, and he got one. i.e-no spoon, no stir, no problems.

My thought about Nash is that he was out to make a buck, and he found that the best way to do that was through illegal means. Having no morals, that was no problem for him. Then he got caught and felt that he could make the highest dollar by being honest - had nothing to do with a change of heart.

There are others in this hobby who did the same thing as Nash (got caught and reverted to honesty, simply because it paid more), and we now honor them as gods. I won't name names, but one in particular gets new threads in his honor every time he starts auctioning stuff again. No difference other than a matter of degrees. Let's not be hypocrites.

[laughlinfan]

Admittedly, if I were directly a victim of the fraud, my opinion might be different, but from my outsider view, it almost seems to me that Peter is doing something similar to what Canseco did - got blackballed/shunned for past bad behavior, and got tired of the community all pointing fingers when he was aware that many of the sacred cows of the hobby were guilty as well. Whether he is doing this out of revenge or a desire to try to do a service to the hobby from which he has fallen from grace, I don't know. But if his claims are true (and certainly some of the accused are free to refute), I am happy that he is making folks aware of the fraud that is going on, regardless of his past.

[Leon]

So basically you are ok if someone murders someone, as long as they point out that someone else murdered someone too? Makes sense to me.

Like many have said, if he paid his dues, made restitution and quit his shenanigans then this would be a different conversation. Until that is done it's hard to get past the messenger to hear the message.

Originally Posted by laughlinfan

Admittedly, if I were directly a victim of the fraud, my opinion might be different, but from my outsider view, it almost seems to me that Peter is doing something similar to what Canseco did - got blackballed/shunned for past bad behavior, and got tired of the community all pointing fingers when he was aware that many of the sacred cows of the hobby were guilty as well. Whether he is doing this out of revenge or a desire to try to do a service to the hobby from which he has fallen from grace, I don't know. But if his claims are true (and certainly some of the accused are free to refute), I am happy that he is making folks aware of the fraud that is going on, regardless of his past.

[travrosty]

why are we talking about murdering someone, al capone was a serial murderer. this is ridiculous. where is any proof that anything like this happened.

its crazy and this whole thread is a setup.

[carrigansghost]

Travis, have you finally lost your mind?

Rawn

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by laughlinfan

Admittedly, if I were directly a victim of the fraud, my opinion might be different, but from my outsider view, it almost seems to me that Peter is doing something similar to what Canseco did - got blackballed/shunned for past bad behavior, and got tired of the community all pointing fingers when he was aware that many of the sacred cows of the hobby were guilty as well. Whether he is doing this out of revenge or a desire to try to do a service to the hobby from which he has fallen from grace, I don't know. But if his claims are true (and certainly some of the accused are free to refute), I am happy that he is making folks aware of the fraud that is going on, regardless of his past.

+1

The output may have value even if the person does not.

If a registered sexual predator alerted you to a speed trap, would you ignore the info and take the ticket on principle?

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by travrosty

why are we talking about murdering someone, al capone was a serial murderer. this is ridiculous. where is any proof that anything like this happened.

its crazy and this whole thread is a setup.

Travis, I would like to reference something positive Pete has done in this thread, his music. As a young kid I was a fan not afraid to admit it.

I was digging for a response to the above and realized Pete and Serch gave it to us long ago….

“Travis Roste gets the gas face”.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Yeah...Pete is a hell of guy. I was at home making sure the paint on my trophy balls was dry.

John...that is too much information. (but very funny) dave.

[2dueces]

Some of the info on HOS is very interesting taken with a grain of salt. Some of the out right fraud on it is down right horrible and paints thus hobby in a bad light. Some of it is fact and some is just speculation on the authors part. As for Nash himself I'll leave that completely alone.

[johnmh71]

I think when you consider Nash and the other websites out there that look to attack the TPA's, you should ask yourself "Is there any ulterior motive to this?". Considering that Nash has a clear record as a fraudster, that question answers itself.

[danmckee]

I attack 3rd Party grading and I have no interior motive. It just plain SUCKS!

[FrankWakefield]

Hang on... I wasn't defending TPG up there... I'm all for Nash bashing them, and everyone else bashing them, too. Even Dan!!

[glynparson]

If a rapist or murderer gets caught and rats out other rapists or murderers i am glad he did it, the rating out. I still think no more of the individual but am still glad of the information he provided.

[RUSH2112]

The website says the book would be for sale in 2011 but a few searches turned up nothing.

I can only assume the lawyers are still proof reading it.

The website trash talk and a link to an online poker website doesn't do much to promote the book but at least someone is making an attempt to inform those of us who don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Nash is a con man who due to his actions have duped and defrauded a lot of folks out of cash, enjoyment and so on.

He is running from the law in so many ways his head must be spinning from all the lawyers, judges & warrants. Like many folks in this situation his next course of action is to point fingers at others to draw attention away from his own actions. Sure some of the things he brings up are legitimate and bad stuff, but the person blowing the whistle is just as guilty. Like one criminal rolling over on another one is not a victim and one sure isn’t a hero.

Originally Posted by Leon

John- well said but Travis will never, ever get it. He doesn't have the mental aptitude to see your, or almost everyone else's, point. Who cares what someone is doing, or has recently done, as long as that someone is pointing out those big crook auction houses. Who cares if the one doing the finger pointing is the biggest crook of all? It's ok because that darned autograph is bad. Boy, isn't that person pointing that out doing a great job! Forget all about the court cases, warrants and wrangling by the one exposing the other fraud, it's ok. Those darned big auctions.....oh wait, where did the fake memorabilia get consigned from?? Gee, how did that happen?

Yeah, I murdered 12 people but I gave a band aid to the guy with a paper cut. Am I ok now? ANSWER from Travis- "You ARE the best!!"

These responses by John and Leon are absolute bullseyes. It's like John's arrow was a perfect shot and Leon's arrow split Johns!

Well Travis, I must say it pleases me that you are now officially married to Peter Nash. So now if, no make that when Nash's goes down and shit hits the fan... ole Pete will take you down the toilet with him.

[Tao_Moko]

Is Peter Nash a porn star? If not, great name.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

Is Peter Nash a porn star? If not, great name.

Eric no, but just like a porn star he sure has screwed a lot of people.

[Wite3]

Love how Travis completely ignores my post...

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

It's like John's arrow was a perfect shot and Leon's arrow split Johns!

Nicely done

[laughlinfan]

Not quite sure I am following your logic, but I'll take the bait! I don't think anywhere in my post did I indicate any sentiment that I am OK with Pete. Quite the contrary - if he did the things that he is accused of, I hope he gets everything that is coming to him and then some. I also hope that if the folks he points out in his articles did the things he has investigated and alleged, that they similarly get what they deserve.

Regardless of how I feel about Pete, that doesn't change the fact that if he is truly pointing out other legitimate instances of fraud, I am happy the information is out there.

So back to your question - if your murderer credibly points out someone else who is a murderer, regardless of his intentions (revenge, redemption, or redirection), I am glad both have been identified, and hope both of them get what they deserve.

Originally Posted by Leon

So basically you are ok if someone murders someone, as long as they point out that someone else murdered someone too? Makes sense to me.

Like many have said, if he paid his dues, made restitution and quit his shenanigans then this would be a different conversation. Until that is done it's hard to get past the messenger to hear the message.

[philliesphan]

Originally Posted by laughlinfan

if he is truly pointing out other legitimate instances of fraud, I am happy the information is out there.

Quite a big "if" at the beginning of your statement.

I know of items that he has listed on his master list of "stuff stolen from NYPL, HOF, etc." whereby owners of the items have literally gone to both a) the curators of the library and b) the FBI with basically a story that "if this belongs, we want to give it back".

In each of those cases, the items have been forensically analyzed and returned to the owner.

[E93]

Aware of what he is accused of having done, I don't trust that what he says now on this site is true. I'm sure there are parts that are true, but without full information, including his motivations, I consider it all suspect.
JimB

[birdman42]

Originally Posted by philliesphan

I know of items that he has listed on his master list of "stuff stolen from NYPL, HOF, etc." whereby owners of the items have literally gone to both a) the curators of the library and b) the FBI with basically a story that "if this belongs, we want to give it back".

In each of those cases, the items have been forensically analyzed and returned to the owner.

Wow. Seems like you don't know who to trust anymore.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by E93

Aware of what he is accused of having done, I don't trust that what he says now on this site is true. I'm sure there are parts that are true, but without full information, including his motivations, I consider it all suspect.
JimB

His motivation? He is trying to rid the hobby of people like himself.

[sago]

Originally Posted by leon

his motivation? He is trying to rid the hobby of people like himself.

poty

[Cardboard Junkie]

Aloha, Just curious, is Nash a convicted felon? How about a list of notable people in the baseball card and memorabilia collecting community that are convicted felons. dave pierson. (never been arrested).