Am I alone on this, wouldn’t be the first time.

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Posted By: John

I realize that running this forum is a lot of work; I in no way intend this as a dig at the hard work of the individuals involved with this forum.

But as of late am I the only one who is tired of the same old crap that is constantly posted here?

How many reprint scammer auctions have to be ousted? How many Wagner reprints must I link too on ebay? How many times must we discuss the political aspects of grading companies good or bad?

This forum is a great place don’t get me wrong; the best part is it’s free! I think however it shouldn’t be free. It should cost you; I have a breakdown of what I think the membership fees should be below.

1.)Post an image once and a while of a card you own good or bad, when tempted to post another reprint auction link!
2.)Think of a constructive interesting topic to post, that we all can enjoy vs. mindless dribble on grading companies.
3.)Take a few moments of your time to congratulate someone on a new pick up, or thank a board member for any help you have received.
4.)Try not to post each and every thought that enters you mind, or use the term O/T.

Maybe I’m the only one who finds it funny how we have baseball card price guides with hundreds if not thousands of pages, dozens of veteran collectors with amazing collections, and all we seem to talk about is if PSA sucks or not.

If we stuck to the basic 4 rules above I bet Leon would spend less time asking for blood types, names and email address’s.

Just my thoughts let the feeding frenzy begin.

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Posted By: Zach

1. Very nice cards John...I like how you scanned them all together like that.
2. I know i'm the youngest here therefore possibly lowest of the food chain ,but I have to agree with John I am tired of all the reprint posts and PSA this and PSA that. Why post about a 15 BIN reprint...seriously nobody here thinks they're gonna get a Wagner T206 for 15 bucks...your not helping them out.
3. I do disagree with you about paying for the forum. I know I would pay...but when I first found it a few years ago I wouldn't have. Paying I think would scare off people looking to for card knowledge. Ex. I found this forum searching on google about the t206 error card. I wanted knowledge on it because a normal Doyle was on ebay and I didnt know the story behind the error card. If I clicked the site and I found out I had to pay for it I would click the back button and most likely not think twice about it. With the paying thing you would keep the members who are already here and gain few more people outside of the members right now.

Just my two cents hope it helps out a little. I'll leave you with this.

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Posted By: John

Zach, by paying I meant do one or more of the following 4 things I listed on a routine basis as a form of payment. Were on the same page, I think you just mis-understood me which is not hard to do seeing as I type like a drunken monkey.

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

The forum has improved vastly over the last 6 months. Very little complaining about reprints or PSA compared to the past, and many more interesting topics.

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Posted By: Anson

While I would agree that some of the post topics are becoming repetitive, I still think that this is one of the best watchdogs for Ebay scammers pushing MAJOR $$$ reprints. True, there are a gazillion $15 T206 Wagners and Planks, as there are Goudey Ruths. But, the shady sellers trying to get 250k for these cards need to be brought to light.

The problem will never go away. However, I would like to think that this board is having an impact on decreasing the amount of that stuff. As of late, it appears that we actually do.

I'm with you on the PSA, GAI, or whoever bashing. It gets old and redundant.

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Posted By: cn

You probably are not alone but I agree with Scott this board has improved in the last 6 months and exposing the Ebay fakes is necessary in today's collecting climate.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

1. Exposing ebay frauds is one of the best services we can perform for less knowledgeable collectors. A lot of people have come in here on first posts thanking us for coming forward on this stuff because it has helped them not get burned. And yes, while only an idiot would think that he'd get a real Wagner for $15, a lot of people are burned on much smaller, lower profile items. These need to be exposed.

2. Another related value to this board lies in exposing crooked, sloppy and/or unprofessional sellers, for the same reasons as above.

3. Discussing the relative merits of different grading services will not stop because the services are constantly changing their approaches, grading new stuff, etc. When PSA, for example, loses Spence and he goes over to SGC, that is worth discussing. We also help (in some small way) to form the consensus as to which services are good and for what reasons. If PSA rips off a collector, loses a submission, slabs an altered card that anyone who can read a catalog would spot, etc., I want to know.

4. I do agree about the O/T posts--but they are being closely monitored. If something significant happens in the world of sports I expect it to come up here and I don't get all bent out of shape if it does.

If you want nice, fluffy, pollyanna-ish posts, the CU board is always there with its active thought police, but you know what, it is REALLY dull to live in sanitized world. There are a lot of strong personalities here with a lot of strong, often clashing views, but the net result is the best mix of information, opinion and entertainment in vintage cards.

Once I am gone Transylvania will be as exciting as Budapest on a Tuesday night.--Dracula, "Love At First Bite"

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Posted By: Chad

I find all the threads about grading services etc. to be pretty helpful as well the exposure of crappy sellers on Ebay. It's been an education and I'm grateful there's a site like this to keep the ground under my feet.

--Chad

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Posted By: Anonymous

Gee John,

I thought that voting against your suggestions was voting for:

1.) post another reprint link rather than an the scan of an interesting (or boring) card.
2.) mindless dribble over interesting topics
3.) thank or congratulate noone, they owe you their experience and insight and they already have too many nice cards!
4.) post anything which comes into your head, before it dies of lonliness,

but I must have misinterpreted your proposed fee structure.


Gil


PS. Thank you everyone for continuing to contribute to my understanding and appreciation for the hobby wew share.

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

I think you just provided us with a great example of #4 on John's list.

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Posted By: leon

I get an extra penny for being where the buck stops...hence the 3 cents. I gotta tell you folks it ain't always the way it looks. For everyone that has a legitmate beef about what is posted there is another one that wants those same things allowed. I am always open to suggestions with the Forum Focus in mind. Heck, I could just say NO MORE off topic stuff. That would suck. I could say no more having to put your name by a controversial post. That would suck. Pretty much anything I say someone is going to think it sucks. I think I was given the reins to make the best decisions I can for the welfare of the board. Many times they are not my personal preference but that's not what I am here for. I believe that my job as the highly paid moderator ( for newbies that's a joke ) is to continue the board in the direction it was started. I don't mind some off topic stuff but as the forum faqs state they should be "occasional" and only permitted by board participants. I will continue to moderate for the good of the board. NO thanks needed, please. I do it because I enjoy it. Hope to see everyone at the National and please continue to comment in this thread if you want to. My helpers and I are watching. I do believe this is still the best place to talk about vintage baseball cards on the net. I always think to myself " Do I really need to censor or moderate this" when I make my decisions. No censorship is the best censorship....but the welfare of the board has to be kept in mind too...regards

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Posted By: Kieran

My thoughts...its a public forum so I take the good and the bad.

If there is a post I dont want to read due to lack of interest, guess what? I dont read it! Oh and here is the wild part, the posts I am interested in...I READ! CRAZY STUFF!

AS forum founders, moderators, Janitors you can do whatever you want and Ill continue to enjoy the place on a daily basis. All I am saying is that we as Americans (most of us i assume) can choose not to open a post on reprints or PSA bitching. I dont see what the big deal is...but hey thats just me. I am just a simple man born in the Bronx.



"I have had balls thrown at me my whole life. When I turned 30 I started to really hate balls - I didnt like the smell, feel or taste!"

Yogi Berra - 1975

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

Focus affects the dynamics and enjoyability of a forum. If I were to go to the Weight Watchers forum and start talking vintage baseball, either no one would respond, or the forum would gradually change to a bunch of large women interested in vintage baseball. It would be easy enough for the infiltrators to tell the dieters to simply ignore our posts, but those who were there to lose weight would probably get irritated, leave and start up a new forum...or make rules that forbade talk about vintage baseball. Similarly, if it got to where everyone was constantly griping about the Atkins diet, at some point members would say "enough's enough."

When this forum deviated from vintage card discussion to a point of being absurd, many members lost interest. Leon's done a great job of keeping that from happening again, despite numerous attempts.

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Posted By: steve k

Response to thread comments:

1.) Post an image once and a while of a card you own good or bad, when tempted to post another reprint auction link!
> Good idea.

2.) Think of a constructive interesting topic to post, that we all can enjoy vs. mindless dribble on grading companies.
> Agreed about the mindless dribble, if you mean nitpicking. However as noticed from your nice graded cards posted, you are not anti-grading. I enjoy good, constructive posts about what is happening with the top grading companies - good or bad.

3.) Take a few moments of your time to congratulate someone on a new pick up, or thank a board member for any help you have received.
> I see this here on a somewhat "regular" basis. This already happens.

4.) Try not to post each and every thought that enters you mind, or use the term O/T.
> Agreed. I come here first and foremost for good information and discussion about cards.

Steve

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Posted By: John

Adam;

I’m not looking for nice, fluffy, Pollyannaish posts. I was just pointing out that I personally feel the “look at this” or “too funny” posts that only lead to another lame reprint or scammer get really old after awhile. Along with the “PSA vs. SGC vs. GAI” stuff. My only point was try posting a topic or a picture of a card instead of every auction scam you find on ebay. I had hours of enjoyment looking at your link to your web page, I get no enjoyment form another ebay link.

Kieran just for the record not every topic is clearly labeled on what its about and I don’t read them if its about those topics, yeah it’s a free country thanks for the heads up. If it was that simple we all could post about what ever we wanted and we could just say don’t read it. I just thought this was a place where we talked about pre-war cards and topics not fake auctions, grading companies, reprints and scammers that’s all.

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Posted By: Glen V

1) I agree that people don't need to read the posts they aren't interested in, but if there are too many of those, the good posts get buried. The board becomes a BS session about baseball rather than vintage cards, and those interested in vintage cards take less interest in the board. (I've seen a lot less posts from Lipset, Lempke, Macrae, etc. lately. Hate to lose experts like those.)

2) Vintage baseball cards don't change much. There aren't hundreds of new questions to ask every day. Maybe we need more patience and less posts?

3) There are some good questions, but people don't respond. It seems people would rather talk about scams, grading, and showing what they bought. For some reason, a number of card questions get little or no response. Examples:

Post about Rittenhouse cards - fell to page 5 before I found mine and responded. Since then no responses and back to page 4. http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=153652&messageid=1118401879&lp=1119586285

Question on Hage's - not quite pre-43, but still... Someone out there must have one: http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=153652&messageid=1119585045&lp=1119585045

Dixie Lid back question - currently on page 6 w/ no answers: http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=153652&messageid=1118536916&lp=1118536916

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Posted By: Kieran

Now I havent been on this board a long time like some of you but from what I gather I would say that most people here are active collectors - meaning they buy, sell and trade cards. Am I right to make this assumption?

Ok so if most people are active collectors then how is "fake auctions, grading companies, reprints and scammers" off topic? AS long as "fake auctions, grading companies, reprints and scammers" topics deal with pre-war cards of course.

The reason why this board is so popular is because of the various topics...one minute you can have a post about a trimmed card someone is trying to scam and the next we are talking about the merits of pre-war players vs current players.

God Bless America and This Forum!


"I have had balls thrown at me my whole life. When I turned 30 I started to really hate balls - I didnt like the smell, feel or taste!"

Yogi Berra - 1975

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Posted By: Wesley

I thought the purpose of the forum was to discuss vintage baseball cards rather than whether Nolan Ryan was overrated.

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Posted By: Bob Donaldson

Although I do not post often, I read this forum daily and find it quite informative and sometimes entertaining. I thank Leon, the board founders and the core group of contributors for a job well done.

I've no problems with posts on grading and the various grading companies even though I have no interest in those topics as I just ignore those posts.
And while sometimes there does seem to be an over abundance of reprint posts I have to admit they sometimes are informative.

My only complaint would be when a post gets started about topic A and ends up going on and on about topic Z, or when two board members trade insults at each other. I've always thought it best to argue in private (i.e. email) because we often don't show our best sides when arguing.

The good in this forum definately outways the bad by a considerable margin. I applaud Leon for doing his best to keep us on the straight and narrow.

Keep up the good work.

thanks

Bob

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Posted By: Kieran

Good point Wesley


"I have had balls thrown at me my whole life. When I turned 30 I started to really hate balls - I didnt like the smell, feel or taste!"

Yogi Berra - 1975

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

Those Ryan-bashing posts started getting moldy back in '03.

Still love my poster of his 7th No-hitter celebration and box-score, signed by Ryan in gold, with game ticket stub affixed. Nolan and Sandy - POWER!!!

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

A nice group of cards, John.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Don't forget that the fun in a lot of these posts on the repeat subjects is kind of like watching MST 3000. No one really wants to see Santa Clause vs. The Martians; we just want to see what the commentary about it will be. I've LOL'd a lot over the responses some of these issues draw.

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Posted By: DJ

MST : Mystery Sceince Theater. Wow! That's a blast from the past and I forgot all about that show. Can I start a thread about the "Allan Havey Show"?

I agree, this board is great the way it is and it wouldn't be fun if we didn't all drive each other crazy everyonce in a while -waiting for a thread that begins: 'What Was Your Favorite Intentional Walk!' or 'Favorite Shoe String Grabs In Now Defunct National Parks In An Odd Numbered Year!'

Keep Up The Good Work Moderator Dude!

DJ

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Posted By: jay behrens

Glen, a lot of times subjects don't get a response becuase there isn't anyone with relavent info or if they do have it they may not feel inclined to diveluge it unril they complete set, find the card or what ever.

I don't think there are a lot of people collecting the sets you mentioned and people working on obscure sets tend to gaurd any info they have that isn't public knowledge quite closely.

Whoever bemoaned the fact that Lipset, Macrae and Lemke don't seem to post much anymore doesn't ahve anything to worry about. they've never posted a lot to begin with but always chime there seems to be no one else that can answer a question. All 3 are also very busyy people, so I wouldn't expect a lot of posts form them to begin with.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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Posted By: Julie

1) my Planks:


For those who didn't save it, the picture of Creighton Barry Sloate says is the best there is:



The other number: about the same time I won my Oshkosh Cabinet, Leon won a much nicer 1875 Hartford team photo with Candy Cummings in it.. I was too jealous to congratulate him...congradtulations, Leon!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Sorry, I am incredibly bored. In penance, please accept the following (PC796 Plank):

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Posted By: Julie

Great card, though!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I think I like it best of all because it just jumps out at you with its clarity.

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Posted By: Brian

Wonka, you mean like this?

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Posted By: Julie

boredom. I've been told that E90-1 Plank is one of the nicest anyone has ever seen, and everyone's always after my Diamond Gum Plank--so I thought they would be O.K.

Now don't pull a John (zzz), who used to say horrible things about me, and then when I got angry, he'd say "Gee, Julie always taking everything so seriously, when it's only meant as a joke." In a pig's eye!

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Posted By: Josh K.

I need to Plank Wesley for this one (this should satisfy payment options 1 and 3):

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Posted By: Julie

decency?"

Sorry...

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I sold an SGC slabbed one with the same sort of staining. Did you get it from Pete Calderon?

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Posted By: Julie

sitting (for HOURS) at the last Tri Star in SF, waiting for the (never mind) at PSA to accept his cards for grading, and he showed it to me and said he had a better one and would I like that one, and I would so I did.

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Posted By: Bill Kasel

Lookee HERE!!!



Now where did I put that pesky T206? I know it's here somewhere!



Bill

"The beer I had for breakfast wasn't bad, so I had one more for dessert"