Addie Joss Jersey card on Ebay

[TheBig6]

I know these type of cards have been discussed before.
I don’t pay any attention to these type cards but ran across this one and another on eBay. Now if this is real jersey swatches and I have my doubts but this one really disturbed me.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-Flawle...A&LH_Auction=1

[Fred]

I have my doubts that the swatches are from a real Joss jersey. If it is, that would have been one of the dumber moves someone could have made. Yes, the word disturbing would come to mind if it were real.

[mantlefan]

Who in his right mind slices up an Addie Joss uni?? Stupid.

[Bill77]

I remember back before Fleer went bankrupt they purchased the oldest authenticated Babe Ruth jersey and used it for cards. They said at the time that by making cards out of it more people would be able to see it than if it was in a private collection. It had to be the dumbest thing I had ever read at the time and thought they should have donated it to the Hall of Fame or even displayed it somewhere like Yankee Stadium.

I currently have cards that claim to have pieces of Honus Wagner's pants and Sam Crawford's bat. There is no way to prove it one way or the other but if it is true it is a shame that the card companies did that with any of the prewar materials.

[joshleland]

https://auction.lelands.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=84504

here they are. Addie Joss' pants. I am not surprised they are calling it a jersey card. Its been done many times before. Through the years these cards have often been cut from very low quality pieces: bats with little or no use, pants rather than jerseys. There were some fakes done many years ago with the older companies but the current crop have cleaned up their act since.

However, they have also used beautiful things that make me sad. Many years ago a real Babe Ruth jersey we sold (kills me) and a beautiful Jim Thorpe jacket that came from the family (Mastronet). Its an ethical quandry. Its a public auction but in a few cases its tragic.

[darwinbulldog]

That was quick.

[iwantitiwinit]

That Joss card says #6/10. The swatch at a maximum is 1 inch x 2 inches so the total area of the pants used for the cards is only 1 inch x 20 inches or 20 sq inches. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REST OF ADDIE'S PANTS!!!!????

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

That Joss card says #6/10. The swatch at a maximum is 1 inch x 2 inches so the total area of the pants used for the cards is only 1 inch x 20 inches or 20 sq inches. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE REST OF ADDIE'S PANTS!!!!????

Saved for another card issue supposedly
Print run is huge for modern cards so in that set they only made 10 for manufactured scarcity.
My opinion is that at some point people will come forward with the truth about how all this was handled. There is no way that all these bat cards and jersey cards are legit. And I personally hate the whole process. Throwing a wagner bat into the chipper to make cards with slivers of it. Ludicrous.

[itslarry]

If people hate it so much why don't they just buy it themselves?
Biased on the collections here there are plenty of rich people that could afford it and then donate it themselves.
Topps is a company, they buy things to make money, not preserve because no one else is wants to step up.
I'd rather own a piece then some old dude have it locked away in his collection to never see the light of day.

But to each there own.

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by itslarry

If people hate it so much why don't they just buy it themselves?
Biased on the collections here there are plenty of rich people that could afford it and then donate it themselves.
Topps is a company, they buy things to make money, not preserve because no one else is wants to step up.
I'd rather own a piece then some old dude have it locked away in his collection to never see the light of day.

But to each there own.

While it's a fair point, I would rather see an old dude driving around in a vintage Ferrari than have a piece of the door panel in my garage.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by Throttlesteer

While it's a fair point, I would rather see an old dude driving around in a vintage Ferrari than have a piece of the door panel in my garage.

+1
Well said, and quite funny.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by itslarry

If people hate it so much why don't they just buy it themselves?
Biased on the collections here there are plenty of rich people that could afford it and then donate it themselves.
Topps is a company, they buy things to make money, not preserve because no one else is wants to step up.
I'd rather own a piece then some old dude have it locked away in his collection to never see the light of day.

But to each there own.

I'm hardly rich, but I picked up a few nice items over the last 40 years.

I'm totally against this sort of card, with the a few exceptions. Like a bat or jersey of a current player where they can use it once, call it game used and move on to another. Or if the original item is in truly horrible condition. Like maybe someone hemmed Joss pants for a minor leaguer and saved the cut off bits.


The whole "it lets many people have a chance at owning a scrap of something historical" is just a bad joke of an excuse. If you believe in it, cut something from your collection up into enough scraps to send one to each member glue them to a card and mail them out.

[Leon]

I am with you on this. The other thing is there has been some major fraud with different "pieces of" cards. Never been a fan of them but to each their own, I guess.

Originally Posted by steve B

I'm hardly rich, but I picked up a few nice items over the last 40 years.

I'm totally against this sort of card, with the a few exceptions. Like a bat or jersey of a current player where they can use it once, call it game used and move on to another. Or if the original item is in truly horrible condition. Like maybe someone hemmed Joss pants for a minor leaguer and saved the cut off bits.


The whole "it lets many people have a chance at owning a scrap of something historical" is just a bad joke of an excuse. If you believe in it, cut something from your collection up into enough scraps to send one to each member glue them to a card and mail them out.

[The Nasty Nati]

Looks like a ton of Joss jerseys are listed on ebay. We could piece the pants back to gather.

[CobbSpikedMe]

I like the jersey cards of modern players. They're really the only modern stuff that I like. I just think they are pretty cool cards. But, like many of you, I don't like that they cut up Babe Ruth jerseys and Ty Cobb bats. Those are limited supply items. I'd much rather know someone has a full Ruth jersey in their collection than have little pieces cut up in a bunch of cards. I don't even like the idea of someone taking their own collection and cutting up pieces to share with others.

[Leon]

I wouldn't be as against modern players jerseys being cut as there are quite a few, generally speaking.

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

I like the jersey cards of modern players. They're really the only modern stuff that I like. I just think they are pretty cool cards. But, like many of you, I don't like that they cut up Babe Ruth jerseys and Ty Cobb bats. Those are limited supply items. I'd much rather know someone has a full Ruth jersey in their collection than have little pieces cut up in a bunch of cards. I don't even like the idea of someone taking their own collection and cutting up pieces to share with others.

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

Interesting topic. I was curious as to what most hard core vintage collectors thought of "memorabilia cards" of pre-war players. I definitely can understand the viewpoint that they are basically destroying important artifacts in order to produce these cards.

But personally, I like them...because I think they allow me to experience a connection to these players that I otherwise could not.

I don't own many vintage cards, and I don't own many memorabilia cards. However I do own a modern card (2001) that has a piece of Babe Ruth's bat....and I love it. My logic breaks down like this:

1. I think pretty much 100% of us could agree that we prefer authenticate vintage cards to reprints, right? An authentic 1933 Goudey card of Babe Ruth provides more value and joy to me as a collector than a reprint of that same card...even though it has the exact same picture. Why? Because a 1933 Goudey card was created and pulled out of a pack of gum during the exact same time that Babe Ruth himself was playing. There is a "connection" there to the Babe, the time, the place. That's cool.

2. So to me, the same thing applies to a card that has a small piece of his bat. That card contains an actual piece of lumber that Babe used to swing and maybe hit home runs with. That bat card provides me a "connection" to the Babe, the time, the place.

Would I prefer to have an actual bat instead of just a piece? Obviously. But a Ruth bat would cost me $100,000. The bat card? i got it for about $100 bucks. I keep it in a magnetic holder so I can easily take it out, and touch the bat piece.

These memorabilia cards allow us to physically interact with the uniforms and equipment of our favorite old players without spending the big bucks necessary to buy a full item, and often times the price is a fraction of what even an authentic vintage card would be...and to me, that's pretty cool.

I know most of you don't like shiny new cards, but I'm gonna put a picture of it here anyway

ruth front.JPG

ruthback.JPG

[packs]

Every single one of these cards should come with provenance from how it was acquired. There is no doubt that the card companies create these cards for chase purposes, otherwise why would a box be advertised as having them in it? Therefore, since the sale is predicated on the memorabilia being authentic, the card companies should include purchase information for the authenticity of the materials.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by packs

Every single one of these cards should come with provenance from how it was acquired. There is no doubt that the card companies create these cards for chase purposes, otherwise why would a box be advertised as having them in it? Therefore, since the sale is predicated on the memorabilia being authentic, the card companies should include purchase information for the authenticity of the materials.

The newer Topps ones are loaded with disclaimers. They basically say that the stuff may be tangentially related to the player or event pictured. Or not.

[thatkidfromjerrymaguire]

Originally Posted by packs

Every single one of these cards should come with provenance from how it was acquired. There is no doubt that the card companies create these cards for chase purposes, otherwise why would a box be advertised as having them in it? Therefore, since the sale is predicated on the memorabilia being authentic, the card companies should include purchase information for the authenticity of the materials.

Yes, I agree with you. That would make it a lot less nebulous. Some of the early cards (such as the one in the picture) at least come with a statement of authenticity of what the item is and that it was used in an MLB game, and some even included pictures of the whole item on the back of the card. Obviously still not a sure thing because it's easy to just claim something is authentic, but it's something.

Then there was definitely a shady period where the statements of authenticity vanished, and the cards only stated that they included a piece of memorabilia...but didn't confirm WHAT it was or how it was used. People assumed bats and jerseys, but in reality the wood could come from stadium seats, benches, etc. and the cloth could come from any type of material.

Having serial numbers and a website where you can go to look up the provenance of the memorabilia would be awesome. Many of the new modern cards have just that for current players...they are authenticated by MLB Authentics, and allow you to look up the specific player and game the piece was from. But I've not seen anything like that for vintage pieces.

[Leon]

I am against cutting up Ruth bats, due to the history I feel we lose, but I can't blame anyone for collecting them. Although, if no one bought them there wouldn't be a market. So there is that. I do like the aesthetics of that Ruth chippings card.

Originally Posted by thatkidfromjerrymaguire

Interesting topic. I was curious as to what most hard core vintage collectors thought of "memorabilia cards" of pre-war players. I definitely can understand the viewpoint that they are basically destroying important artifacts in order to produce these cards.

But personally, I like them...because I think they allow me to experience a connection to these players that I otherwise could not.

I don't own many vintage cards, and I don't own many memorabilia cards. However I do own a modern card (2001) that has a piece of Babe Ruth's bat....and I love it. My logic breaks down like this:

1. I think pretty much 100% of us could agree that we prefer authenticate vintage cards to reprints, right? An authentic 1933 Goudey card of Babe Ruth provides more value and joy to me as a collector than a reprint of that same card...even though it has the exact same picture. Why? Because a 1933 Goudey card was created and pulled out of a pack of gum during the exact same time that Babe Ruth himself was playing. There is a "connection" there to the Babe, the time, the place. That's cool.

2. So to me, the same thing applies to a card that has a small piece of his bat. That card contains an actual piece of lumber that Babe used to swing and maybe hit home runs with. That bat card provides me a "connection" to the Babe, the time, the place.

Would I prefer to have an actual bat instead of just a piece? Obviously. But a Ruth bat would cost me $100,000. The bat card? i got it for about $100 bucks. I keep it in a magnetic holder so I can easily take it out, and touch the bat piece.

These memorabilia cards allow us to physically interact with the uniforms and equipment of our favorite old players without spending the big bucks necessary to buy a full item, and often times the price is a fraction of what even an authentic vintage card would be...and to me, that's pretty cool.

I know most of you don't like shiny new cards, but I'm gonna put a picture of it here anyway

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