PSA vs SGC...the definitive Debate!!!

[ullmandds]

Yes...this topic has been beaten to death...shall we come to a definitive conclusion to put it to rest?

Who sucks the least...PSA or SGC...please feel free to post evidence to support your arguments!!!!!

[CMIZ5290]

Peter, i think you know where i stand. They both make plenty of mistakes. But when it comes to resale value on your investment, psa cards bring alot more money, especially t206s.......

[rainier2004]

Bust 'em all out...

[glchen]

I love them both (and BVG too). Now please give me good grades on my submissions!!

[gorrister]

I'm a cracker, but if I had to choose, SGC has a more appealing holder.

[zljones]

Am I the only one that thinks the PSA holder is cooler looking?

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Bust 'em all out...

+1. Put them back in when it's time to sell

[usernamealreadytaken]

I like SGC for consistency, customer service and value, but can't argue that PSA brings more $$. Not sure that will change . . .

[g_vezina_c55]

I prefer sgc but i also love psa cards but in my collection i have 1.5x more sgc cards.
I love the look of the SGC holder

[ullmandds]

I like SGC for consistency, customer service and value, but can't argue that PSA brings more $$. Not sure that will change . . .


+1!

[g_vezina_c55]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I like SGC for consistency, customer service and value, but can't argue that PSA brings more $$. Not sure that will change . . .


+1!

+2 not sure too that will not change, many time when we talk about grading mistake etc, psa is almost everytime involve, so i am not sure this will not change

[GregMitch34]

Probably this has been done here already, but would be interesting for folks to make two lists (subjective):

What PSA tends to go easy on (very forgiving) in grading--and where it is very tough

Same for SGC.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by zljones

Am I the only one that thinks the PSA holder is cooler looking?

Couldn't agree more, red and white over green and white.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by g_vezina_c55

+2 not sure too that will not change, many time when we talk about grading mistake etc, psa is almost everytime involve, so i am not sure this will not change

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure PSA grades more cards which could explain more mistakes.

[SushiX37]

I agree with Zach and Jake. PSA offers a better case, easier to read grading, and tracking that can easily be accessed on their website.

Rich

[srs1a]

Definitive makes me laugh on this subject. It is a religious debate with financial overtones.

[zljones]

The PSA case is slimer so more of them fit into my bin. SGC cases are too bulky looking.

[RGold]

Originally Posted by zljones

The PSA case is slimer so more of them fit into my bin. SGC cases are too bulky looking.

You misspelled slimier.

[pcoz]

I like SGC for accuracy, but because of collectors affinity for the PSA Registry, they bring higher prices IMO. Also, I love how my cards stand out in the SGC holder. Drives me nuts in some of the PSA holders when the cards move all around.

[Dave1943]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by zljones
The PSA case is slimer so more of them fit into my bin. SGC cases are too bulky looking.

You misspelled slimier.

+1 lol

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by srs1a

Definitive makes me laugh on this subject. It is a religious debate with financial overtones.

I agree. I'd almost rather discuss religion and/or politics before taking a side in this debate!

[HRBAKER]

Vintage Style

[CMIZ5290]

Current score sgc 53, psa 11....i just simply don't get it. If we all are collectors and at some point want to sell, why would you not go with the grading company that brings the most money?

[ullmandds]

For the most part...I don't buy/collect cards with the intent to sell!

My primary reason for collecting is the enjoyment I derive from the hobby and owning the cards themselves...not the satisfaction I may receive from getting top dollar for my cards if and when I decide to sell them.

I am more a man or morals...of ethics...and of esthetics...and SGC does a better job for what my needs and desires are.

[CMIZ5290]

Peter, i agree to some point, but i know i am not going to collect cards for the rest of my life. So what do you do with them at that point when you are either looking to retire or no longer collect? Most collectors sell. That's all i'm saying.

[christopher.herman]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

For the most part...I don't buy/collect cards with the intent to sell!

My primary reason for collecting is the enjoyment I derive from the hobby and owning the cards themselves...not the satisfaction I may receive from getting top dollar for my cards if and when I decide to sell them.

I am more a man or morals...of ethics...and of esthetics...and SGC does a better job for what my needs and desires are.

+1 Well said, Peter.

[pcoz]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

For the most part...I don't buy/collect cards with the intent to sell!

My primary reason for collecting is the enjoyment I derive from the hobby and owning the cards themselves...not the satisfaction I may receive from getting top dollar for my cards if and when I decide to sell them.

I am more a man or morals...of ethics...and of esthetics...and SGC does a better job for what my needs and desires are.

+2

[T206Collector]

Somebody who collects PSA 5s is going to have to tell me how they live with the regular occurrence of PSA 5s with creases. I have owned hundreds of SGC 60s and PSA 5s over the past decade. The PSA 5 with creases is a plague. I have NEVER -- really NEVER -- seen an SGC 60 with a crease or wrinkle.

Plus, I have no idea who is grading PSA cards. SGC makes its graders available for discussions at shows. I have had half a dozen conversations with Bob Luce at SGC about grading T206s of all conditions.

PSA has no customer service and inconsistent grading. The reasons they may get more money for their cards is unrelated to the quality of their product.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

The reasons they may get more money for their cards is unrelated to the quality of their product.

Agreed. Besides, I'm not convinced that they do overall. Sure, some PSA cards sell for more than their SGC equivalency, but there are also many SGC cards that sell for more than their PSA equivalency.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Peter, i agree to some point, but i know i am not going to collect cards for the rest of my life. So what do you do with them at that point when you are either looking to retire or no longer collect? Most collectors sell. That's all i'm saying.

On sets of which the Registry is competitive PSA cards bring more money upon resale; but on postcards and type cards SGC does just as well.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

The reasons they may get more money for their cards is unrelated to the quality of their product.

So you say, but the laws of market economics say otherwise.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So you say, but the laws of market economics say otherwise.

The market rewards PSA for its registry, proliferation and price-realization-expectation. The quality of their product -- consistent grading -- is seriously lacking, and cannot possibly be driving the value of a PSA holder.

[sycks22]

Now on day 24 of my 5 day submission to PSA. SGC has never been late and even worked with me on a better price on some of my submission cards

[glynparson]

I'll take SGC, If submitted by a major submitter I'll take they both SUCK.

[brianp-beme]

I have never submitted a card for grading, and dislike what the whole grading subculture has wrought upon the hobby...but on a rare occasion I have purchased graded cards (nowadays raw can only get you so far). I have seen a greater percentage of mistakes and inaccurate grading in PSA cards, while the black inserts in the SGC cases make the cards stand out. In my perspective PSA does top SGC in one way...their slimmer cases take up less room.

Brian

[4815162342]

PSA, SGC, and BVG all have the same flaw: they hire human beings. Human beings lack the ability to be completely impartial. Computers are impartial however and I believe in the not-too-distant future that image processing technology will lead to automated grading.

Yes, software architects and developers are human beings, but a programming flaw (for example, an improper angle calculation for off-center/miscut/diamond-cut detection) would impartially affect all cards, regardless of whether the subject was an E98 Wagner or a 1950 Callahan Wagner.

[wonkaticket]

Peter you left out PRO up there I love those guys.

[Matthew H]

I guess it's finally settled, PSA is better

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

PSA, SGC, and BVG all have the same flaw: they hire human beings.

True, but the humans at work at SGC include certain graders who have been there since the beginning of the company. Like I said, Bob Luce at SGC is terrific and is one of the people on this planet who actually should be grading T206 cards. When you submit a T206 to SGC, he is one of the guys there who will look at it.

In my experience, those who say PSA and SGC both make human mistakes tend to be PSA collectors who think the inconsistent grading they have in their collections would have been the same if they had SGC grade their cards. It wouldn't be the same. SGC is much more consistent.

Finally, what's up with the "baggie" on oversized T206s, PSA? Yuck!

[bobbyw8469]

SGC is much more consistent.

I wouldn't say that. I can show you around 50 Mutoscope cases that I had to crack out because SGC blew the grades on every single one of them. And I think BigDaddyBowman has a pic of all the SGC cases he had to break out because they blew his grades too.

[jp1216]

I've always favored the SGC slab, customer service etc. In the mid '90s, my first SGC card was the '59 Mantle. Red on Black is amazing. Post war card in a SGC holder was rare. Still is, but I was hooked. Sent in 25 more '59s to get them graded. More for the look than the number on the label.

I too believe PSA (usually) brings more in resale - but I'm not collecting for resale. My heirs will be left a note saying "consider sending everything to PSA for more $$".

BGS slabs are too big - but are hurricane proof. PSAs are too easy (IMO) to fake or reseal.

OT: I can't stand those registries. I've seen too many 9s that look better than 10s - but are 'worth' 90% less because to the label. I even own a 10 with a wax stain on the back.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I wouldn't say that. I can show you around 50 Mutoscope cases that I had to crack out because SGC blew the grades on every single one of them. And I think BigDaddyBowman has a pic of all the SGC cases he had to break out because they blew his grades too.

Sounds like SGC was consistent and you just disagreed with the grades. I would definitely like to see scans of what you are talking about. Mutoscope is non-sports? 1940s?

[danmckee]

WOW! I actually voted for PSA considering the problems and the volume. I was shocked to see that I am in the minority. Interesting.

[teetwoohsix]

I found that after awhile, I started giving the card my own grades, probably like many of you do. It may say it's a 4, I may say it's a 3 as example. I guess I'm saying I look at the card first anyways, their grades are only a reference point-you make the final decision. I can see though, how it would matter more to someone from the selling point of view.

SGC
BVG
PSA

Sincerely, Clayton

[JohnP0621]

I have to go with PSA. In my opinion there grading is much more consistent.
I think they grade differently. SGC seem to grade their cards 1/2 to 1 grade higher than PSA. I have seen many SGC 60 that would be a PSA 4 and SGC 50 that would be a PSA 3 OR 3 1/2. That is why some people prefer SGC because their grades come back higher. A lot of people also buy grade PSA with Qualifiers and crack them and send to SCG and get a nice grade with no qualifier. They both make some mistakes but who doesnt. We all like to think that are cards should grade higher regardless of which company grades them and whoever does not give us the grade we think that we deserve sucks more .
I prefer PSA.

John P

[philliesphan]

I like applesauce

[ullmandds]

John p...while i respect your opinion...you could not be more wrong!!!

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

I found that after awhile, I started giving the card my own grades, probably like many of you do. It may say it's a 4, I may say it's a 3 as example. I guess I'm saying I look at the card first anyways, their grades are only a reference point-you make the final decision. I can see though, how it would matter more to someone from the selling point of view.

SGC
BVG
PSA

Sincerely, Clayton

I'm 100% with Clayton on this. Learn to grade your own cards. All of us go through a learning process when we get into vintage cards and memorabilia, so why not make grading your own cards as part of the process.

TPG does the hobby a great service by examining cards and weeding out the ones that are trimmed and altered. I'm sure that has saved collectors thousands of dollars. Assigning grades, on the other hand, is really not a useful service. First off, it's too subjective and the grade can be changed on a resubmission. Second, the various companies use different standards so cards will not always receive the same grades when crossed over. Finally, many collectors disagree with the grades anyway. Just too many variables for it to make any sense.

Collectors should grade their own cards, and the TPG's should just stick to authenticating and that's it. That has always been my position and I know you've seen me repeat it more than a few times.

[ullmandds]

Barry... I would venture to guess that grading has made people many many millions of dollars more... then it has saved them?!

[barrysloate]

Peter- I could spend a long time giving you my response to what you said, but I'll leave it for now. Sure, if you resubmit an 8 and it comes back a 9, you will make a lot of money. But......