James Spence

[shelly]

Thought you guys might like to read this.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=41262

[tdellis]

who is the best

[Runscott]

never mind. Talking about this is a waste of time.

[packs]

What responsibility do auction houses have to not accept these as consignments?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by packs

What responsibility do auction houses have to not accept these as consignments?

What is your opinion? You've been around here for a long time and heard all of these arguments. What do YOU think their responsibility is?

To answer your question - my opinion is that no auction house in their right mind would base consignment decisions on Peter Nash's web-site.

[David Atkatz]

It has absolutely nothing to do with Peter Nash's website.
We've known for years that those Mathewson bookplates are secretarial.
And Spence knows it, too:


"1910 book plates adhered to the inside front covers of Won in the Ninth have recently come under scrutiny for their controversial legitimacy. These number(ed) (appr. 500) presentational copies have a type written name added with a large and spurious secretarial black fountain pen manuscript. Observe the low initial stroke of the “M” and the oversized lower case letters and the unusual “t-h” combination that is heavily retraced. Overall, this vintage ghost signed anomaly is far more pointed than his other versions….”

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

It has absolutely nothing to do with Peter Nash's website.
We've known for years that those Mathewson bookplates are secretarial.
And Spence knows it, too:


"1910 book plates adhered to the inside front covers of Won in the Ninth have recently come under scrutiny for their controversial legitimacy. These number(ed) (appr. 500) presentational copies have a type written name added with a large and spurious secretarial black fountain pen manuscript. Observe the low initial stroke of the “M” and the oversized lower case letters and the unusual “t-h” combination that is heavily retraced. Overall, this vintage ghost signed anomaly is far more pointed than his other versions….”

I believe Nash when he says that Spence said that some he had authenticated were secretarial. I am most definitely NOT a Matthewson autograph expert. I studied them for a while when I was looking to purchase one, particularly checks. I also looked at as many bookplate examples as I could find, because I found the 'secretarial' discussions and felt like it was a great opportunity to learn more.

In the end, I did not feel comfortable buying a book or a baseball. And curiously, I also did not feel comfortable buying a check. Here's why: go look at the third bookplate example Nash provides. Then go look at a few Matthewson signed checks. What I 'found' was that at least two different people signed the books. Was one of them Matthewson? I don't know, but if all the bookplates were secretarial-signed, there were two secretaries and one of them also signed some of Matthewson's checks.

That's my conclusion. If I'm wrong, sobeit, but my research left me uncomfortable forking over $5k+ for a Matty autograph.

[SetBuilder]

I don't believe those signatures are secretarial. The experts could be wrong.

Mathewson's usual signature length is very small. If you look at all of his signed album pages and other items, the signature remains under 3" in length. Most signed checks have signatures measuring < 2.75". Mathewson had tiny handwriting.

The bookplate pasted on the front board of Won In The 9th measures around 5 inches, with the blank space for the signature nearly the entire 5 inches across.

If Mathewson decided to enlarge his signature for whatever reason, maybe to make it more bold, or to take up all of the 5 inches, his handwriting traits could have changed. Doubling the size of his signature may have caused this change, which manifest as some atypical traits. Could be the result of exaggerating the size of his normal handwriting.

Besides, why would he hire a secretary to sign the 500 bookplates? Was he so busy? That's kind of weird. Did ballplayers back in 1910 usually have secretaries?

[slidekellyslide]

Ten bucks says the majority of comments at the end of Nash’s articles are written by Nash himself.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

Besides, why would he hire a secretary to sign the 500 bookplates? Was he so busy? That's kind of weird. Did ballplayers back in 1910 usually have secretaries?

It's not weird at all. The publisher took care of the whole thing. The "signer" worked for the publisher, not Mathewson. Mathewson never even saw those books.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

I don't believe those signatures are secretarial. The experts could be wrong.

Mathewson's usual signature length is very small. If you look at all of his signed album pages and other items, the signature remains under 3" in length. Most signed checks have signatures measuring < 2.75". Mathewson had tiny handwriting.

The bookplate pasted on the front board of Won In The 9th measures around 5 inches, with the blank space for the signature nearly the entire 5 inches across.

If Mathewson decided to enlarge his signature for whatever reason, maybe to make it more bold, or to take up all of the 5 inches, his handwriting traits could have changed. Doubling the size of his signature may have caused this change, which manifest as some atypical traits. Could be the result of exaggerating the size of his normal handwriting.

Besides, why would he hire a secretary to sign the 500 bookplates? Was he so busy? That's kind of weird. Did ballplayers back in 1910 usually have secretaries?

You make good points; however, there are major tells in the secretarial signatures that indicate a different signer from MOST of his checks, and increasing the size of his signature would not have affected these. Look at the left of the 'M'. There are many, but that's an obvious one.

I want to add that I would never fault anyone for their analysis of Matty's autograph. It's not an easy one to understand - Ruth, Cobb, Wagner, Williams, Mantle are much easier to figure out. If someone has a secret 'key' to Matty autographs, please send it to me and I will trade whatever information on autographs I might have (it's not much).