Vintage Card Prices

[Michael Peich]

I've had difficulty recently with VCP (registration, response, and cost). Is there another price tracking service I should consider? Any suggestions are welcome. Thank you.

Cheers, Mike

[canjond]

I do not subscribe to either service so do not play any favorites here. However, I do know that http://www.cardpricer.com/ exists (or used to exist).

Maybe others can speak to their service.

I use both. One for raw card data, and the other for graded. Depends on what its for.

[OldSchoolBaseball]

they do not provide the service they say. As a percentage, they only track a few sets across the board and virually none on the Non Sport side. When you initially search you get VIP only (which means you have to buy the service to see) - then, it's not there. They only track after you request so they cannot go back say 4 years and give you pricing/results.

Robert Binder in rude and will tell you "you should have looked at the sets we provide before buying the service." Even though you cannot see what they track??

If you need some pricing email me and I will give it to you for FREE (only if they track that set). Do not send money to VCP as you will be disappointed.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by OldSchoolBaseball

(1) As a percentage, they only track a few sets across the board...

(2) Robert Binder in rude...

(3) Do not send money to VCP as you will be disappointed.

David,

You obviously had a bad experience. My experience has been nothing like yours.

As far as (1) goes, I can't understand what you mean. I collect cards from hundreds of different sets (pre-1950) and there is pricing info for every one of them on VCP...to the extent there have been actual sales (which is all I care about). If your beef is non-sports coverage, fine, but many posters here don't care about that - this is after all a vintage baseball website.

Regarding (2), I had a few exchanges with Bobby and he was polite, responsive and enthusiastic. He accepted and implemented a couple suggestions I made, as a customer, to improve his data.

In terms of (3), I don't agree with you at all, and I'm sure there are many other who don't agree either.

I notice you have not suggested anything better out there, so why don't you enlighten us as to what is better?

Cheers,
Blair

[Jacklitsch]

I agree with Blair.

My experience with VCP has been stellar. VCP has saved me many more dollars than the cost of the service.

(I do have to admit though, as much as I do like Bobby, he can be kind of gruff at times. But then don't we all have a bad day now and then?)

[HRBAKER]

VCP has been worth the cost for me as well. Most of the value has been in showing that a card(s) that I thought seemed to be priced fairly really weren't according to the recorded data. Now you do have to account for the fact that on many cards the only recorded sales may be several years old as well and the fact that there is a limited amount of data being fed in.


edit to add: I only use it for baseball.

[glynparson]

VCP does a poor job in tracking. For bASEBALL THEY SEEM TO BE PRETTY SPOT ON. i AGREE THEIR NONSPORT AND ODDBALL SPORT TRACKING LEAVES A LOT TO BE DESIRED. oops I see I hit the caps lock. Well Im not going to retype that.

We find it almost laughable that any serious collector would not invest $100 a year to track graded card prices.

We have found VCP to be extremely valuable. As a resource they have proved their value to us 1000x fold.

The annual membership fee is extremely modest. We spend at least 40x their dues in sales tax.

If one is a serious collector of high grade baseball cards- VCP is the only reliable source.

If were running VCP, we might triple the price. Serious collectors would stay, and the nickel and dime folks who spend a few hundred dollars a month
on cards would go---but chances are they'll go any way.

Bobby, should also have a special once month 3 card look up for $19.95. That way a spot buyer can access the information and not have to worry about an annual fee.

What we don't understand about the hobby is that collectors and investors should use all the available tools to gain competitive advantage both as buyer and seller.

We are always in competition. We want to have all of the weapons available to take advantage of a situation. There is no more valuable weapon than real time market intelligence.

In our view if one is not willing to invest $10 or $15 a month to gain invaluable market intelligence,one can not be considered a serious collector of anything except excuses.

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

Paying 20% above VCP average for the extraordinary items we are interesting in adding to America's most important type card collection

[t206hof]

Glyn, That's funny. I can't says I blame you though for not going back. Way to much work. You know I am only joking with YOU. OOPS. Dennis.

[rdixon1208]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

If were running VCP, we might triple the price. Serious collectors would stay, and the nickel and dime folks who spend a few hundred dollars a month
on cards would go---but chances are they'll go any way.

Besides not making financial sense, you sound like an arrogant butt hole when you say things like this.

Mr. Dixon

We wonder if your mathematical abilities compare to those of a fifth grader.

Let us assume that at $100 VCP has 2500 members. Let us also assume that 1500 of those members spend between $10,000 and a $1,000,000 per year on graded baseball cards.

If 1000 members went away - that is $100,000 in lost revenue
If 1500 stayed that is 4300,000 in incremental revenue

Whilst you may think of us as a being a pompous ---- we are fine with that as long as we can enjoy S... on bird brains like yourself.

Do let us know if you would like a basic book on 5th grade math.

[rdixon1208]

I could be wrong, but I don't think your assumptions are correct. I think that the percentage of "Nickel and Dime" collectors who spend a few hundred dollars a month (on a really good month for me) is a lot higher than you think.

Edited to add that I would like a basic book on fifth grade math. Why not? PM me and I'll send you my address.

[Peter_Spaeth]

VCP is well worth the money. As there are certain sources of cards I try to avoid, it is useful to be able to track cards by image. Also, on many occasions, providing sellers information about past sales has convinced them to reduce prices.

[glynparson]

VCP is definetly worth the money if you buy baseball, football, or basketball cards. I still think it misses MANY cards in the other sport categories as well as non-sport cards

[Cy2009]

I am not a subscriber to VCP so someone enlighten me. Do the prices take into account Buy-It-Now sales or sales with one bid? I ask because I was told it didn't. With ebay now being overrun with Buy-It-Now sales as opposed to auction sales, without applying the Buy-It-Now sales, this would very much skew the prices. This may seem like a good thing to buyers, to have the cards reflect lower prices. But shouldn't VCP be fair to both buyers and sellers.

Again, I don't have the service, so if I am wrong, I would like to know.

Cy

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by Cy2009

I am not a subscriber to VCP so someone enlighten me. Do the prices take into account Buy-It-Now sales or sales with one bid? I ask because I was told it didn't. With ebay now being overrun with Buy-It-Now sales as opposed to auction sales, without applying the Buy-It-Now sales, this would very much skew the prices. This may seem like a good thing to buyers, to have the cards reflect lower prices. But shouldn't VCP be fair to both buyers and sellers.

Again, I don't have the service, so if I am wrong, I would like to know.

Cy

Hi Cy,

Yes it does. There is a column right next to price that is called "Bids". For Ebay, a buy-it-now is recorded as BIN in that column. Auctions have the number of bids recorded. That info appears to go from present back as far as partway through 2007.

Cheers,
Blair

[HRBAKER]

Is ebay being overrun with Buy-It-Now sales or Buy-It-Now listings? Geez, I must be looking on the wrong ebay if it is the former.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Bosox Blair

Hi Cy,

Yes it does. There is a column right next to price that is called "Bids". For Ebay, a buy-it-now is recorded as BIN in that column. Auctions have the number of bids recorded. That info appears to go from present back as far as partway through 2007.

Cheers,
Blair

Blair,

I think your assumption here is incorrect. We have had this discussion here before. VCP does NOT record sales information on all BINs. I forget the exact distinction, but they get some, but do not capture others.



Edited to add: Here is a thread on this from about 4 months ago. It's long, convoluted, and sometimes painful to get through, but my take was that VCP does not record Ebay sales on BINs, made through Ebay stores. I admit, I could be wrong though. I'm old and my attention span seems to shorten every day.


http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...light=vcp+BINs

[Tedw9]

I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in on VCP tracking BIN's in stores. It DOES capture those, but only after the item has run it's course.

For example, if a store list an item for 30 days, I buy it on the second day it's for sale, VCP will not capture it until the full 30 days has gone by. So you would have to wait the 28 days before you would see it on VCP.

I asked Bobby this same question because I had purchased a pack and it did not show up and I thought maybe VCP had missed it.

I hope this helps clear some things up.

[Tcards-Please]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

Whilst you may think of us as a being a pompous ---- we are fine with that as long as we can enjoy S... on bird brains like yourself.

Do let us know if you would like a basic book on 5th grade math.

"If______ were running VCP" (I'm assuming "we" should have been entered)
"Bobby, should also have a special once ______ month" (a, every other, etc)


And let us know if you would like a basic book on 2nd grade english.

No need to be an absolute ______________(reader chooses favorite noun)and get personal like you did.

r/
From a less than serious collector.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Tedw9

I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in on VCP tracking BIN's in stores. It DOES capture those, but only after the item has run it's course.

For example, if a store list an item for 30 days, I buy it on the second day it's for sale, VCP will not capture it until the full 30 days has gone by. So you would have to wait the 28 days before you would see it on VCP.

I asked Bobby this same question because I had purchased a pack and it did not show up and I thought maybe VCP had missed it.

I hope this helps clear some things up.

A quote from Bobby, in the thread I cited, post #61:

"Chinese style is any auction that is set with a time format so our system knows when the ending time is to finalize the transactions. You see this for many fixed price auctions, Best offers and Buy it now as well as for the standard type auction. When there is no end time associated with the item we have no way of knowing whether that card sold or not using the API system set up by eBay. The only way to find out if a card has sold or not with no time limit is by having a person physically view the pages and that is not very doable."

He seems to be stating that there are some Ebay sales that he can not capture. So, no, it's not completely cleared up.

[vintagechris]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

Mr. Dixon

We wonder if your mathematical abilities compare to those of a fifth grader.

Let us assume that at $100 VCP has 2500 members. Let us also assume that 1500 of those members spend between $10,000 and a $1,000,000 per year on graded baseball cards.

If 1000 members went away - that is $100,000 in lost revenue
If 1500 stayed that is 4300,000 in incremental revenue

Whilst you may think of us as a being a pompous ---- we are fine with that as long as we can enjoy S... on bird brains like yourself.

Do let us know if you would like a basic book on 5th grade math.

I'm sure Bobby's goal is not to price the small collector out of his service but is to create a fair price point that will allow many people to purchase it and for his business to grow that way, by increasing his number of subscribers.

I don't have a consulting business but I do know you build a business more by gaining and RETAINING new customers. Not by pricing them out of the market.

[arexcrooke]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

Mr. Dixon

We wonder if your mathematical abilities compare to those of a fifth grader.

Let us assume that at $100 VCP has 2500 members. Let us also assume that 1500 of those members spend between $10,000 and a $1,000,000 per year on graded baseball cards.

If 1000 members went away - that is $100,000 in lost revenue
If 1500 stayed that is 4300,000 in incremental revenue

Whilst you may think of us as a being a pompous ---- we are fine with that as long as we can enjoy S... on bird brains like yourself.

Do let us know if you would like a basic book on 5th grade math.

No, but you look like you need a basic book on business. If VCP did that, then the, as you call us "nickle and dime" collectors will leave.
Then another company will fill the gap for the majority of collectors who, as nickle and dimers, need a service like VCP provides. Then, the few Rockefellers such as yourself, have a choice, stay with VCP and pay a high price, or join the new provider.
So, VCP goes out of business due to your formula.
I dont know many people in the card hobby as I am relatively new. I do know arrogant and condescending when I read it. And you sir(s) are high on that list.

[barrysloate]

Bruce has never had a lot of patience for the riffraff of the world. He should be a little more courteous to others, however.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Bruce has never had a lot of patience for the riffraff of the world. He should be a little more courteous to others, however.

But aren't you proud that I stayed out of this fray?

[barrysloate]

Jim- you've been such a model citizen lately that I no longer think your "ruining humanity since 1955" motto is applicable.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Bruce has never had a lot of patience for the riffraff of the world. He should be a little more courteous to others, however.

And the "riffraff" is anyone that doesn't make 7 figures or have an elitist attitude. Patience, understanding and humility have never been Bruce's trademarks. My favorite collectors in the hobby are the ones who generously give their time to helping others and who have down to earth attitudes. Fortunately that is about 99% of the hobby. The other 1% are just put up with because they are here. Bruce could be so beneficial to the hobby if he wanted to be. Many of his threads and posts are quite good if you can get around the way he acts towards others. ....regards

[barrysloate]

Bruce is much different in person- he can be very cordial, easy going, and even funny. And he can be quite generous too. But behind the computer screen he becomes Attila the Hun. Don't really understand what that's all about.

[Jacklitsch]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Bruce is much different in person- he can be very cordial, easy going, and even funny. And he can be quite generous too. But behind the computer screen he becomes Attila the Hun. Don't really understand what that's all about.

Maybe there are two Bruces.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Bruce is much different in person- he can be very cordial, easy going, and even funny. And he can be quite generous too. But behind the computer screen he becomes Attila the Hun. Don't really understand what that's all about.

Because people keep taking the bait.

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Bruce is much different in person- he can be very cordial, easy going, and even funny. And he can be quite generous too. But behind the computer screen he becomes Attila the Hun. Don't really understand what that's all about.

Maybe he's MAC-ic Depressive.

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Bruce . . .can be very cordial, easy going, and even funny.

His delightful turn with Bristol Palin on Dancing with the Stars won America's heart.

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by Kawika

His delightful turn with Bristol Palin on Dancing with the Stars won America's heart.

David,

I think we were all captivated.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

He seems to be stating that there are some Ebay sales that he can not capture. So, no, it's not completely cleared up.

Hi Jim,

I have always understood this to be true - some sales are not captured.

My response was to a poster who had incorrect information that VCP does not record BIN sales or one-bid auctions. When I recently checked pricing on a Ted Williams card over half the recorded sales results were indicated as "BIN". So many of these sales are captured.

(Personally I completely disregard BIN sales results unless they are in line with auction results. To me, they are no reflection of market value at all. If they are significantly higher than auction results my view is that the purchase is either out of impulse or desparation, or that the buyer has no idea about the market for these items. The only exception is if the item is quite rare and has not been offered for sale in some time...but that is fairly easy to figure out using VCP too.)

Cheers,
Blair

Whilst we are a conservative Republican, we would not waste our precious time dancing with a born again who can not name the country's most distinguished universities.

As for Mr. Sloate's Attila The Hun comment- we admire his success. He had only two types of competitors- those whom he took over and ruled and those whom he destroyed. His success was rather remarkable. Thanks for the compliment, Mr. Sloate.

As for Leon Lucky's comment- we provide many interesting posts, and actively buy and sell on BST. We share information selectively, and when it is to our advantage to do so. All of you Wharton Grads will recall that the first thing we were taught is" Free advice is worth what they pay for it."

We love the hobby, but we choose to contribute selectively We are constantly refining our battle strategy. Remember every board member is first a competitor and the a colleague

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List
bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

Thanks for the complement, Mr. Sloate.

It's compliment. If you're going to profess to be some kind of Ivy League intellectual (which, by the way, few people are buying), then hire a proofreader to help you pull it off. I know middle-school kids who have a better grasp of spelling and punctuation than you exhibit.

[Kawika]

Rob: You mean he's not really an Ivy League intellectual?? I did not know that.

[Tcards-Please]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

It's compliment. If you're going to profess to be some kind of Ivy League intellectual (which, by the way, few people are buying), then hire a proofreader to help you pull it off. I know middle-school kids who have a better grasp of spelling and punctuation than you exhibit.

I'm not sure how many are in his "we" group, but you would think that one of the Bruces' would know how to spell.

[barrysloate]

Bruce- it was meant to be a joke...and please call me Barry.

[Jacklitsch]

and you can call me Steve.

deleted

Rob D

We graduated Magna Cum Laude- Wharton University of PA
We also hold a graduate degree from Insead in France

Where did you earn your trade school degree?

When they bury you- we suspect your tombstone will state:

Graduate-Garbage U

Is it true that you and your fellow alumni always have a sip of rat poison
at dinner? We hear it is now available in multiple flavors

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan51

Rob D

We graduated Magna Cum Laude- Wharton University of PA
We also hold a graduate degree from Insead in France

You might want to ask for a refund on whatever you paid in tuition.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I'm not sure Sarah Palin could name those universtities either. Then again, she would view that as a positive.

[Leon]

After reading Rob's last post, and laughing, I can honestly say I appreciate Bruce being on the board. It really makes for some entertaining reading, on several levels.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I'm not sure Sarah Palin could name those universtities either. Then again, she would view that as a positive.

Regardless of her lack of genuis, Palin is hot. So she has that going for her!! There are very few national candidates for office that I actually enjoy looking at but she is one of them. Even my wife knows I have the hots for her .

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

Regardless of her lack of genuis, Palin is hot. So she has that going for her!! There are very few national candidates for office that I actually enjoy looking at but she is one of them. Even my wife knows I have the hots for her .

Oh my God!! Seriously??

Perhaps you can get her to join the Board or see your type collection

Then you will have earned the name Leon Luckey

Bruce

[Peter_Spaeth]

I wouldn't be a member of any organization that would have her as a member. And I am pretty conservative politically too.