Why Do You Collect Pre-War??

[ronniehatesjazz]

A friend asked me earlier today about this and it made me think real hard. I'm 31 so I have no obvious connection with the players. Growing up I was a sports nut and big time collector but I really haven't followed the game closely since I was a teenager; though I still casually watch games here and there (ironically I know more trivia than my friends who are still diehard fans). I think what really makes me so interested is not the game as it currently is and perhaps not baseball at all; it seems to be history.

I love seeing the blurbs on the back of tobacco cards (my favorite is the Marquard t207 which calls him the "$13,000 beauty" lol). I'm fascinated with the diamond star cards Art Deco style and love the fact that you see factories blowing chimney smoke in the backgrounds. It's like taking a brief step back in time before all the nonsense and confusion of the world we live in today came into effect. I love looking at t206 beaters and wondering what the story behind the card is. Sometimes I imagine a guy popping out a smoke and throwing the card on the floor of his model-t where it gets destroyed before his son finds it months later. Other times I imagine kids begging for the cards from people leaving the general store. It's just so interesting to think about.

I also enjoy finding out more about the players themselves and their view of the game and life in general. I read "the glory of their times" a year or so ago and couldn't put it down. So much history that most people, diehard fans even, have no clue about.

Sorry for the drawn out post, but I'm curious to know why you all collect.

[kmac32]

My Great Great Uncle Elmer Miller played for the Yankees in 1921 and was a teammate of Babe Ruth. He was the first Yankee to ever get a hit in a World Series and he was the first Yankee to ever score in a World Series. Hooked on prewar as I started an E121 Yankees/Giants World Series collection.

Expanded to my Cubs T205 and T207 Cubs with different reverses from here. Bery addictive.

[rhettyeakley]

1.) I am a big sports fan

2.) I love history & research

3.) I have the inherent urge to collect things (it runs in my family)

The combination of the 3 leads me to collect what I do.

[BruceinGa]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

2.) I love history & research

3.) I have the inherent urge to collect things (it runs in my family)

The combination of the 3 leads me to collect what I do.

I'm pretty much the same except I'm not much of a sports fan. I still play tournament softball and will also casually watch a baseball game or two, although I did watch most of the last World Series.
I love to imagine how players lived on and off the field, how they interacted with the public and how it was to play for the love of playing, not for the money.

[EvilKing00]

I find it amazing how after over 100 years, and back then cards were not treeted like gold, they survived.

[Eggoman]

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

I find it amazing how after over 100 years, and back then cards were not treeted like gold, they survived.

I gotta agree! I LOVE old paper stuff! To imagine who's hands these items may have passed through AND that they survived 100+ years of Moms, Wars, Paper Drives, etc. AMAZING!

[KMayUSA6060]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

1.) I am a big sports fan

2.) I love history & research

3.) I have the inherent urge to collect things (it runs in my family)

The combination of the 3 leads me to collect what I do.

This...

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

I find it amazing how after over 100 years, and back then cards were not treeted like gold, they survived.

This...

And...

Not to take away from in the intangibles, but it is such a liquid era to collect. If something were to happen in my life and I needed money, I can sell off my collection pretty quickly because they have a strong, desirable foundation. This is more of a plus/bonus than a reason I collect them, but hey, it doesn't hurt!

I've also wanted to collect Pre-War since I was very little in the '90s. Couldn't afford them back then obviously, and my parents didn't see the investment side of Pre-War, but I just love Pre-War. Also, I read Dan Gutman's baseball card book series, "_____ & Me". Highly recommended.

[Leon]

I love baseball and have played some form of it all my life. I like to collect. I also like that what I collect (pre-war baseball cards) have value and many times will increase in value. As a plus many of the cards are great artist works in themselves. Then there is the camaraderie with collecting. All put together it's a lot of fun.

[frankbmd]

Why Do You Collect Pre-War??

Either the cards were produced too early or the war was too late.

Actually though the war was too early and I was produced too late.

[david_l]

Originally Posted by ronniehatesjazz

It's like taking a brief step back in time before all the nonsense and confusion of the world we live in today came into effect.

I hear what you're saying and agree about loving the history and pre war cards. That said, I see this sentiment very frequently, often in hobbyist contexts, and I just don't get it. For example, when T206s came out we were living in a time of Jim Crow and mass lynchings. McKinley had been assassinated less than a decade previous and the scars of Wounded Knee were still prevelant. Woman were still about a decade from even being able to vote. In sports, the greatest athletes were barred from playing with each other and the reserve clause guaranteed that the owners were rich and the players would be sent home (perhaps to the mines or some other intense industrial job) if they held out for their fair share. There was no pension in baseball and many ex players struggled to provide for their families after their career ended (often via injuries). Union busting/violence was prevelant and politics were just as corrupt, if not more so than now.

Nostalgia is fine but in no way was there "less nonsense" than today (unless maybe your were an aristocrat with "pure" European blood).

Sorry, I don't mean to get on you but I see this sentiment way too frequently and it always makes me shake my head.

[nat]

All good reasons above, and I share most of them.

But here's my main response: I don't really collect pre-war. It seems that most baseball card collectors collected as kids, took a few years/decades off, and came back to it later. Me too. When I was a kid my goal was to get one of each hall of famer (from their playing days). When I decided that it would be fun to collect cards again, I decided to finish my childhood collection (and upgrade some cards along the way). I got most of the post-war guys when I was a kid, so what I have left to work on is mostly pre-war.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by david_l

I hear what you're saying and agree about loving the history and pre war cards. That said, I see this sentiment very frequently, often in hobbyist contexts, and I just don't get it. For example, when T206s came out we were living in a time of Jim Crow and mass lynchings. McKinley had been assassinated less than a decade previous and the scars of Wounded Knee were still prevelant. Woman were still about a decade from even being able to vote. In sports, the greatest athletes were barred from playing with each other and the reserve clause guaranteed that the owners were rich and the players would be sent home (perhaps to the mines or some other intense industrial job) if they held out for their fair share. There was no pension in baseball and many ex players struggled to provide for their families after their career ended (often via injuries). Union busting/violence was prevelant and politics were just as corrupt, if not more so than now.

Nostalgia is fine but in no way was there "less nonsense" than today (unless maybe your were an aristocrat with "pure" European blood).

Sorry, I don't mean to get on you but I see this sentiment way too frequently and it always makes me shake my head.

I thought that were no politics allowed on this site.

[david_l]

Originally Posted by rats60

I thought that were no politics allowed on this site.

Are you confusing history and politics? I know the lines can be blurred but please.

[mechanicalman]

Like Rhett, my passion is the convergence of three things:

1) I grew up loving baseball and idolizing baseball players. And the pre-war heros, even though many of them are flawed, are unlikely to disappoint me at this point.

2) I love history, and, as a marketer by trade, I'm enthralled by the history of advertising and marketing. I think we forget that most of these pieces existed to get people to buy other stuff.

3) I have an appreciation for pop culture art. When it comes to T206, T202, Goudeys, Diamond Stars, and even 48 Leafs, I just love how the artwork captures the times. When I can show my non-sports-loving wife a card, and she thinks it's beautiful, then it hits this criterion.

[ronniehatesjazz]

Originally Posted by rats60

I thought that were no politics allowed on this site.

+1

I really enjoy seeing why others collect and I'd rather just stick to that but David totally doesn't get what I'm saying and I'm the one shaking my head. It's just another example of someone twisting words so they have the opportunity to feel morally superior. BTW that time was far more than just lynchings, oppression, and sexism. There were a lot of terrific things going on but it's a lot cooler to focus on the atrocities. Tribal nature and anti-intellectualism at its worst. Sorry, I'll stop now.

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by david_l

Are you confusing history and politics? I know the lines can be blurred but please.

Agreed. I didn't read any politics whatsoever into what you wrote. I try not to let the realities of history interfere with my "good ol' days" nostalgia but the imagination requires a filter of gauze to ignore past troubles and the like. A big reason why I collect is to escape the present, to conjure a bygone world when the old people I knew were young, and to re-connect with the young lad I used to be. I remember buying Superboy comics from a news-shack on 86th and Broadway in 1959; the other day I picked up a few issues off eBay, all to please that ancient boy.

[scomeau]

It's is interesting to see how the various 'minorities' found sports as a way out of tough circumstances. Obviously, the Irish, African Americans, and Latinos, to name a few. It's true, we may romanticize the times, but there is certainly history in these cards.

My favorite set related to this topic is the T202 Hassan triple folders with pictures like you cited (factory smoke and rough fields). And I know of no other cards that have such extensive writing on each reverse. I have also noted that the tone of the writers was always positive, even if they had to acknowledge a player's problems. That positive spin might be just that, but it's refreshing to read someone trying to be positive.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by david_l

Are you confusing history and politics? I know the lines can be blurred but please.

OK, stick with the history of baseball and keep your political views out of it. The majority of people in the country believe things are getting worse not better.

[ls7plus]

For me, the card (at least where the visual image is taken from a photograph) is a two-dimensional slice of an actual 3-dimensional moment in the player's life and career, created and preserved virtually contemporaneously. It thus becomes the history of the game I can hold in my hands! Plus, as Leon has not only noted but proven, if you apply some analysis to your purchases, over time, they may well be expected to appreciate substantially in value.

Happy collecting to all,

Larry

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rats60

OK, stick with the history of baseball and keep your political views out of it. The majority of people in the country believe things are getting worse not better.

If someone said that to you would you want to know their name? (kind of goes for David l too) Please be cognizant of the name rules.
And btw, to me, your statement was more political than his. But that is just me.

[Enfuego]

I am a baseball crackhead who loves everything about the sport and it has encouraged me to build a love/hate relationship with history


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[seanofjapan]

It's not necessarily political to point out that many things in life were extremely brutal relative to today in the pre war world.

This is actually one of the things that makes pre-war collecting appealing to me. Look at the stories of a lot of those players in the early 20th century, from Rube Waddell to Christy Mathewson - those guys went through a lot of drama and tragedy in their lives that make them quite appealing as legendary figures and in ways that differentiate them from most post-war players. They lived and died in a harsh world that most people raised after the war would recoil in horror at the thought of.

[brianp-beme]

Here's my story, and I'm sticking to it:

1. Grew up playing baseball.
2. Collected cards when young.
3. Come from a family with the 'Collecting Gene'.
4. Like history, and in general just like old things.
5. Like creating lists and putting things into order.
6. Was always fascinated by baseball stats, and along with all of the above made me explore the pre-war game and its players.
7. Developed an appreciation for the artistry and varied graphics of the issues.

I would be cheating out my destiny if I would not collect pre-war baseball cards.

Brian

[rednecksims]

I am not a huge pre war collector but I will pick up a card here and there. For me it's about the history of the game and the legend of the players. Also it's awesome to see something so old that has passed through tons of hands survive the way it has.

[david_l]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

It's not necessarily political to point out that many things in life were extremely brutal relative to today in the pre war world.

This is actually one of the things that makes pre-war collecting appealing to me. Look at the stories of a lot of those players in the early 20th century, from Rube Waddell to Christy Mathewson - those guys went through a lot of drama and tragedy in their lives that make them quite appealing as legendary figures and in ways that differentiate them from most post-war players. They lived and died in a harsh world that most people raised after the war would recoil in horror at the thought of.

Totally agree. I'm not a huge (modern) boxing fan per se but after reading about the struggles of the line of fighters from Molineaux, to Peter Jackson, to the big four of the early 1900s I really became enthralled with these individuals and the history and context of such athletes. So I started collecting pugilist cards a few years back. Such amazing individuals and stories. Often they end tragically but they are almost always fascinating. Such individuals had to overcome poverty, racism, mob control of their sport, violence from spectators, health issues, etc. and still achieved tremendous things while simultaneously disproving many contemporary myths of the time. Such examples ended up advancing numerous social causes which I think is really neat to learn about.

As you mentioned, the same is true in baseball. There's just so many fascinating tales. I love getting cards and learning about player's lives and careers. I collect these cards because, as you so elegantly stated they lived in a harsh world but managed to do great things. I find that inspiring.

David Luft

[Jason]

I started collecting Prewar after seeing Richmond had older turn of the century teams and cards available of the players. I have always been a Richmond Baseball fan and discovering the T206/T210/T209/E222/H801-7 connection was such a great moment and has led to countless hours of research not only to do with RVA but the whole State of Virginia and surrounding States that had minor league circuits. Alot of members have shared great knowledge of these sets and its been fun making hobby friends along the way.

[BruceinGa]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Here's my story, and I'm sticking to it:

1. Grew up playing baseball.
2. Collected cards when young.
3. Come from a family with the 'Collecting Gene'.
4. Like history, and in general just like old things.
5. Like creating lists and putting things into order.
6. Was always fascinated by baseball stats, and along with all of the above made me explore the pre-war game and its players.
7. Developed an appreciation for the artistry and varied graphics of the issues.

I would be cheating out my destiny if I would not collect pre-war baseball cards.

Brian

You said it all for me also! Except for the part of baseball stats. I used to be that way, kept up with batting averages, w/l records etc. I remember watching the game of the week and the announcers, probably Pee Wee Reese and Dizzy Dean, stated that the stats were changing. Used to be that if the defense was indifferent to a runner stealing second it wasn't recorded as a stolen base. Also if a batter squared to execute a sacrifice bunt and ended up safely on first it was still scored a sac.
After hearing that I was not longer excited about learning/remembering stats.

[seanofjapan]

Originally Posted by david_l

Totally agree. I'm not a huge (modern) boxing fan per se but after reading about the struggles of the line of fighters from Molineaux, to Peter Jackson, to the big four of the early 1900s I really became enthralled with these individuals and the history and context of such athletes. So I started collecting pugilist cards a few years back. Such amazing individuals and stories. Often they end tragically but they are almost always fascinating. Such individuals had to overcome poverty, racism, mob control of their sport, violence from spectators, health issues, etc. and still achieved tremendous things while simultaneously disproving many contemporary myths of the time. Such examples ended up advancing numerous social causes which I think is really neat to learn about.

As you mentioned, the same is true in baseball. There's just so many fascinating tales. I love getting cards and learning about player's lives and careers. I collect these cards because, as you so elegantly stated they lived in a harsh world but managed to do great things. I find that inspiring.

David Luft

Yeah that is more or less it (for me at least). The stories behind a lot of those athletes in the pre-war period are so interesting because the degree of adversity they overcame (or in some cases, succumbed to) is just so much greater than what most faced after the war (not just with baseball players, but most of society at that).

I think my feelings can be summed up by a simple comparison:

Adversity faced by random hypothetical baseball player in the 1910s: Player is one of 8 children, only 3 of whom survived to adulthood. Loses wife and first child to Spanish influenza. Player's first year in MLB was also the first year in his life in which he had regular access to indoor plumbing, motorized transport and sufficient food and clothing. Player gets middle class income while playing on top MLB team, but has to fight for that job every year. Has no access to modern medicine, health care, etc, so after age 26 is playing mostly in pain. Works as bartender in off season to pay bills. Career ended after getting exposed to poison gas on Western Front in WW1. Dies age 45.

Adversity faced by random hypothetical baseball player in 1980s: Team owners are colluding to keep player's salary under $1 million per season. Unable to afford upkeep on 90ft yacht as result, forced to downsize to 60ft version. Also having to cut down on discretionary cocaine binges in order to economize.

The former of these provides a much more compelling narrative than the latter.

[Billy5858]

Originally Posted by david_l

I hear what you're saying and agree about loving the history and pre war cards. That said, I see this sentiment very frequently, often in hobbyist contexts, and I just don't get it. For example, when T206s came out we were living in a time of Jim Crow and mass lynchings. McKinley had been assassinated less than a decade previous and the scars of Wounded Knee were still prevelant. Woman were still about a decade from even being able to vote. In sports, the greatest athletes were barred from playing with each other and the reserve clause guaranteed that the owners were rich and the players would be sent home (perhaps to the mines or some other intense industrial job) if they held out for their fair share. There was no pension in baseball and many ex players struggled to provide for their families after their career ended (often via injuries). Union busting/violence was prevelant and politics were just as corrupt, if not more so than now.

Nostalgia is fine but in no way was there "less nonsense" than today (unless maybe your were an aristocrat with "pure" European blood).

Sorry, I don't mean to get on you but I see this sentiment way too frequently and it always makes me shake my head.

+1
And

My Uncle gave me a bunch of Sports Cards as a kid. I was always a collector as a youngin..Stamps, Comics, Match Box Cars etc. must be in my DNA or something. I had to raise $$ to go back to school right around when EBay started. Duh into my treasures I went and sold everything.Ended up loving the graded Sports Card part of it. Started collecting the Monster. Nope!! Only graded T205 for me now. Maybe I can do in my lifetime? Took me awhile to find what I wanted to collect. Found it and love it now. But yeah the old innocent days blah blah don't mean nothing to me cos it wasn't

[dabigyankeeman]

I am a team collector. My focus is on New York City teams, mainly Yankees, but Brooklyn Dodgers and NY Giants too (just a smaller amount of them). I have been trying to put together team sets of Yankees from 1980 back, so this has me going after Goudeys, tobacco cards, etc.

The more I get of these old cards the more I like them. Such great history, such great artwork on so many of them, just such a great look to them. Its awesome to look at cards that are 70, 80 years old, and even older. Maybe i like them because they are actually older than me!!! Also i have learned the history of my teams too from cards.

I go after pre-war cards of Dodgers and Giants of course, and also Jewish athletes too. There is just something so neat about looking thru my pre-war albums, hard to explain why but I just love these old cards best, along with the cards from the 1950's. To me once you hit the 1960's its just not the same feeling even though I collect Yankees all the way up to cards produced now.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by david_l

I hear what you're saying and agree about loving the history and pre war cards. That said, I see this sentiment very frequently, often in hobbyist contexts, and I just don't get it. For example, when T206s came out we were living in a time of Jim Crow and mass lynchings. McKinley had been assassinated less than a decade previous and the scars of Wounded Knee were still prevelant. Woman were still about a decade from even being able to vote. In sports, the greatest athletes were barred from playing with each other and the reserve clause guaranteed that the owners were rich and the players would be sent home (perhaps to the mines or some other intense industrial job) if they held out for their fair share. There was no pension in baseball and many ex players struggled to provide for their families after their career ended (often via injuries). Union busting/violence was prevelant and politics were just as corrupt, if not more so than now.

Nostalgia is fine but in no way was there "less nonsense" than today (unless maybe your were an aristocrat with "pure" European blood).

Sorry, I don't mean to get on you but I see this sentiment way too frequently and it always makes me shake my head.

ALoT of WHaT You HaVE SaiD
iN Some Form or Another
Thru the LaST 100 Years
THeSe Situations You Speak oF HaVe Occurred!

HoWEVaR, Baseball Has ALWaYs BeeN There!!!

Mr. Jones Nails iT!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SB16il97yw&t=4s

Why Shake Your Head & Be So Negative?
We Who Come Here Day iN & Day Out,
Love THiS Country For WHaT iT iS
& For the Opportunity Ta Make THiNGs BeTTar!!!

Please... By All Means, Relax My Friend...
No One Here iS Naïve