Please show your PRE-American Tobacco Company cigarette pack(s)

[jerrys]

Samples of mother packs, overprint tax stamps and insert cards are illustrated below


oj1abt70c.jpg

rich2abt70c.jpg

cr1abt70c.jpg

[tedzan]

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I'm not sure that this A & G tin included cards, anyhow......











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TED Z

T206 Reference
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[1880nonsports]

Ted you are not following the rules!!

Hello Jerry. Hope all is well?

[jerrys]

In the mid-1880s W. Duke Sons & Co. initiated a drive to increase the sale of the emerging cigarette industry by inserting an advertising picture card as a premium in their brands of cigarettes. The overwhelming positive response by the public to these cards induced most of the rest of companies in the tobacco industry to imitate that success. There are surviving empty packs from those tobacco companies. It is a wonder that 130 year old empty packs were saved in the first place but it is a benefit as it answers a research question.

The dated overprint tax stamp on these early cigarette packs is the only way to prove which packs carried the insert cards. This was my expressed need for only pre-ATC packs, anything else blurs the case. This was to be a survey to find the number of collectors with this particular interest. It appears the number is quite small - actually very close to zero!

BTW The tax stamp overprint is almost impossible to read - a readable text copy of the tax stamp information would be helpful.

For a complete understanding and definitions of this branch of the hobby that connects of tobacco products and baseball cards please visit: http://www.baseballandtobacco.com/index.htm THE SOURCE.

[Joe_G.]

Hello Jerry,

Hope all is well. You are correct in that our numbers are relatively small (pack collectors). Most pack collectors are found outside of the baseball card hobby. Some of them have more of a non-sport focus and more still don't focus on cards at all other than perhaps an occasional type card to go with their packs.

The website you linked to, from Jon Canfield, is a good source as is your own. We do have more information and corrections that could be added but still great places to start.

My favorite entry in this thread is your Creole pack with a legible cancel date. I have four Creole packs and have studied a couple others that I'm aware of (they are rare packs) and none of them have a legible cancel date. Can you share a high resolution scan of that overprint? The date aligns with my expectations for this 3rd style of Creole pack. Also, is that your N333 Newsboy card?, great card! Some manufacturers such as Goodwin & Ginter typically have easy to read overprints while others are typically impossible or very tough (Kimball, SF Hess, etc.).

I've posted many of my packs in the past but will add to this thread with some Dogs Head packs. Dogs Head cigarettes debuted in late June of 1889, each pack containing an N172 Old Judge baseball card and an N163 Dogs of the World card (together with a coupon and an N173 redemption checklist as shown below).



Cancel dates of SEP 1 1889, Oct 1 1889, and MAR 1 1890. The first two packs would have held 1889 Old Judge cards (Fc) while the March of 1890 pack may have very well held a rare NL/PL 1890 card. I am not aware of any Dogs Head packs post ATC merger.

[Chicosbailbonds]

Originally Posted by jerrys

In the mid-1880s W. Duke Sons & Co. initiated a drive to increase the sale of the emerging cigarette industry by inserting an advertising picture card as a premium in their brands of cigarettes. The overwhelming positive response by the public to these cards induced most of the rest of companies in the tobacco industry to imitate that success. There are surviving empty packs from those tobacco companies. It is a wonder that 130 year old empty packs were saved in the first place but it is a benefit as it answers a research question.

The dated overprint tax stamp on these early cigarette packs is the only way to prove which packs carried the insert cards. This was my expressed need for only pre-ATC packs, anything else blurs the case. This was to be a survey to find the number of collectors with this particular interest. It appears the number is quite small - actually very close to zero!

BTW The tax stamp overprint is almost impossible to read - a readable text copy of the tax stamp information would be helpful.

For a complete understanding and definitions of this branch of the hobby that connects of tobacco products and baseball cards please visit: http://www.baseballandtobacco.com/index.htm THE SOURCE.

Your link is why I love this site. Learn something new every day.

Now I'll shut up and learn more.

[jerrys]

Not to go beyond the scope of this thread but it is ironic that Buck Duke, who started the insert card fad to increase demand of the evil weed due to his favored discount advantage for his assisting James Bobsack to perfect the cigarette-rolling machine, ended this highly expensive component of production by stopping competition. This was done by incorporating with the main five tobacco companies.

My record: ATC was formed the end of January 1890. Would your March 1890 DH pack be included as a card carrier? Merger date incorrect? Could it be Goodwin just used up the supply of old DH packs for economic reasons?

I do not know what this sentence means: "The date aligns with my expectations for this 3rd style of Creole pack." I will send you an enlarged image of the Creole tax stamp when I next use the scanner.

The reference card shown just refers to an arbitrary representative card of that series for that pack. The Creole could have been the actress series N330. The N333 is from a reference file - not mine.

Ted did not convert the Kimball’s tax stamp information into readable text. I cannot make it out.

Your great book on Goodwin's Old Judge Cards is most complete. An added benefit to the reader would have been a reference to information on the manufacture and distribution of OJ cards and packs, if in existence.