Any player cards you dont collect because of morals

[Belfast1933]

Originally Posted by JustinD

McGraw was a weird intense character that tended to rub people the wrong way at times, as well as doing conflicting things. It is horribly odd that this was a perverse tradition at the time and not uncommon. What is weirder is that in a true example of conflicting actions, McGraw did actually try to break the color barrier in 1901 by attempting to sneak in Charles Grant Jr as an American Indian named Chief Tokohama. If it wasn’t for Charles Comiskey putting a stop to it by recognizing Grant, McGraw would have been successful.

As an example that few may know of this sick tradition, feel free to read about Nap Lajoie -

Wow, horrible… almost wish I didn’t know about this. (But thx for sharing - just wish his history wasn’t so tarnished by something like this)

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Belfast1933

Wow, horrible… almost wish I didn’t know about this. (But thx for sharing - just wish his history wasn’t so tarnished by something like this)

I just think it's too hard to judge the past by current standards. What is positive is that those past standards are gone.

The real issue for me is when people do not learn from the mistakes or misguided mores of the past and continue to live by them. When we hide these things or erase them, they are only bound to repeat. We learn, we move forward.

[Belfast1933]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I just think it's too hard to judge the past by current standards. What is positive is that those past standards are gone.

The real issue for me is when people do not learn from the mistakes or misguided mores of the past and continue to live by them. When we hide these things or erase them, they are only bound to repeat. We learn, we move forward.

I hear you and can see and agree with you to a point... but for me, a lucky lynching rope?? That's as clear as can be, even applying some latitude for a different time. This blows waaay past my own limit.

It's just a bummer to learn these things

[G1911]

Feel free to send me your Anson’s, Lajoie’s, McGraw’s and anyone else who does not meet todays standards of acceptable thought. Free your collection of its burden, and get some cash (note: cash may picture individuals who do not fit your worldview) in exchange!

P.S. Good luck finding 2022 right think in 1910.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Belfast1933

I hear you and can see and agree with you to a point... but for me, a lucky lynching rope?? That's as clear as can be, even applying some latitude for a different time. This blows waaay past my own limit.

It's just a bummer to learn these things

What's truly astonishing is how matter of factly the newspaper reports the murder.

[Rad_Hazard]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What's truly astonishing is how matter of factly the newspaper reports the murder.

Yeah that was an intense read.

There is something to be said about those who reform later in life such as Speaker and Cobb. I have a lot of respect for those who can see the err in their ways and ideals, especially at an older age.

[G1911]

I went diving into the story here of this sad incident.

Robertson murdered a policeman on the street on a "forenoon", Deputy Sherriff Phillip Fatch. NY Times Article is here, though I can only read the abstract (https://www.nytimesn7cgmftshazwhfgzm...l-richard.html).

It appears that he was accused of assault, and two policemen came to arrest him. This unsourced marker, clearly and heavily biased to the most charitable view of Robertson possible, (https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=202593) claims "When two white deputies arrived to arrest Mr. Robertson, he objected and ultimately fled after an exchange of gunfire left all three wounded." It seems that there is little doubt he murdered a cop and shot another, who appears to have been making a lawful arrest. I can find nothing on if Robertson was guilty or not of the original assault, which is probably lost to time and only the claimed victims really knew, possibly the police if they had provided evidence. Robertson was shot by his victims three times as well. After Fatch succumbed to his wounds, a mob removed him from his cell and "fired several shots" and hung him. I interpret this to mean the poor man was given a coup de grace before being strung up, that's usually what this kind of phrasing meant at that time.

There are efforts for this memorial to Robertson and its final placement, which is apparently a hot topic in Mobile (https://www.al.com/news/2022/07/cont...-happened.html). Advocates of the memorial, which they wanted to place where a statue of the cancelled Raphael Semmes used to stand, claimed they were unaware of the allegation Robertson committed murder, which seems absolutely impossible to credibly believe as the memorial does include that fact, though phrased in the most charitable way.

What a sad and thoroughly unnecessary human tragedy all around, with 2 deaths and another probably seriously wounded person. A lynching is, should be needless too say, a horrible thing, as is the denial of due process rights, especially when the guilty party is already in custody and no longer a meaningful threat to the public. So is committing murder in the first place, Fatch seems to have done nothing wrong here as far as I have read, he served a legitimate warrant for arrest on assault charges, for those charges to be heard in court. As to the modern controversy, I do not think at this point I will ever understand the cancellation of historical figures to be replaced with similar statues, memorials and commemorations of people who are not historical figures and evidently committed objectively horrible crimes, but are more amenable to the narratives of those doing said cancelling. There seem to be many victims in this saga, and no heroes.

[Rad_Hazard]

Originally Posted by G1911

I went diving into the story here of this sad incident.

Robertson murdered a policeman on the street on a "forenoon", Deputy Sherriff Phillip Fatch. NY Times Article is here, though I can only read the abstract (https://www.nytimesn7cgmftshazwhfgzm...l-richard.html).

It appears that he was accused of assault, and two policemen came to arrest him. This unsourced marker, clearly and heavily biased to the most charitable view of Robertson possible, (https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=202593) claims "When two white deputies arrived to arrest Mr. Robertson, he objected and ultimately fled after an exchange of gunfire left all three wounded." It seems that there is little doubt he murdered a cop and shot another, who appears to have been making a lawful arrest. I can find nothing on if Robertson was guilty or not of the original assault, which is probably lost to time and only the claimed victims really knew, possibly the police if they had provided evidence. Robertson was shot by his victims three times as well. After Fatch succumbed to his wounds, a mob removed him from his cell and "fired several shots" and hung him. I interpret this to mean the poor man was given a coup de grace before being strung up, that's usually what this kind of phrasing meant at that time.

There are efforts for this memorial to Robertson and its final placement, which is apparently a hot topic in Mobile (https://www.al.com/news/2022/07/cont...-happened.html). Advocates of the memorial, which they wanted to place where a statue of the cancelled Raphael Semmes used to stand, claimed they were unaware of the allegation Robertson committed murder, which seems absolutely impossible to credibly believe as the memorial does include that fact, though phrased in the most charitable way.

What a sad and thoroughly unnecessary human tragedy all around, with 2 deaths and another probably seriously wounded person. A lynching is, should be needless too say, a horrible thing, as is the denial of due process rights, especially when the guilty party is already in custody and no longer a meaningful threat to the public. So is committing murder in the first place, Fatch seems to have done nothing wrong here as far as I have read, he served a legitimate warrant for arrest on assault charges, for those charges to be heard in court. As to the modern controversy, I do not think at this point I will ever understand the cancellation of historical figures to be replaced with similar statues, memorials and commemorations of people who are not historical figures and evidently committed objectively horrible crimes, but are more amenable to the narratives of those doing said cancelling. There seem to be many victims in this saga, and no heroes.

Incredibly sad story and thanks for doing the footwork. Regardless of the crimes involved, carrying a piece of lynching rope would only bring bad mojo in my book. I don't really care for Anson and his racist past so I don't collect his cards, but I also collect cards I like that are morally bankrupt in other ways, so I don't really have a leg to stand on.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Rad_Hazard

Incredibly sad story and thanks for doing the footwork. Regardless of the crimes involved, carrying a piece of lynching rope would only bring bad mojo in my book. I don't really care for Anson and his racist past so I don't collect his cards, but I also collect cards I like that are morally bankrupt in other ways, so I don't really have a leg to stand on.

Carrying a piece of lynch rope for luck is, of course, not as bad as actually doing said lynching, but it is such an odd thing to encounter. Rough street justice or perceived justice, racial and not racial, has been a norm for the vast majority of human history, but this little anecdote surprises. An all-around tragedy, the mechanism of it's sad and bloody conclusion turned into a good luck charm. History is often more strange than any fiction.

I do not mean this in a personal or negative way to anyone, but I find it endlessly interesting that today we see and treat racism (Anson's crime of thought, after the fact) as in many ways worse than even murder itself, that most absolute and final of all things (Simpson's crime of action, and a crime when committed). Anson is more objected to than Simpson, a statue of Semmes is pulled down for a memorial to a fellow who apparently committed a homicide without any dispute that he did. It dots our culture in many ways and places, and it surely says something about who we are as a people today, but I am not quite smart enough to put my finger on exactly what that is.

[timn1]

wrong spot!