Deserving of a PSA 10?

[RedsFan1941]

OUTRAGEOUS!!! but at least the board is finally talking about a heritage auction.

[Lorewalker]

I cannot afford it. I do not know T206s well either so with those disclosures my worthless opinion is that it is not a 10. I see what appears to be a tobacco stain too. My hunch is that if taken out of the holder it would not come back as a 10 the next time. If it were my card however I would not see any of the flaws we have pointed out.

In a perfect world I think I would prefer to buy a card that I feel would grade the same way if submitted again. I know not all collectors, especially those at the top of the food chain, care about that.

[irv]

Originally Posted by bxb

I'm not a T206 expert, but I might have expected better top to bottom centering for a 10.

If the centering begins below the letters at the bottom of the card (which I believe it does?) then I believe it is in tolerance of receiving a 10?
https://www.psacard.com/resources/gr...andards#detail

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

How can any card that is 115+ years old look like that ? Remember it was packaged in a tobacco pack . This card has never been dropped etc. ?? Just putting it in and out of a CardSaver without corner nicks is hard to do . Wow !

I have always wondered that too. How could a card that old or older stay so sharp and clean after all these years?

I am not suggesting it isn't possible, I would just like to know how cards like these were saved/preserved when I highly doubt any type of card savers/sheets were available way back then.

Can I assume most were placed between pages of thick books? I'd honestly like to know what collectors did way back then.

[x2drich2000]

IMO, there is no way this should be a 10, especially with the back being so far off-center and stained.



DJ

[orly57]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

IMO, there is no way this should be a 10, especially with the back being so far off-center and stained.



DJ

Do they not consider the centering on the back when making their assessment? I can’t believe that they would not. We can all agree that the card doesn’t deserve a 10, but some guy won’t care and will drop absurd money on the flip anyway. It’s madness.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by orly57

Do they not consider the centering on the back when making their assessment? I can’t believe that they would not. We can all agree that the card doesn’t deserve a 10, but some guy won’t care and will drop absurd money on the flip anyway. It’s madness.

Even if this card was spot on, perfect centering on the back, 8 at best should be the grade.,...

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by irv

If the centering begins below the letters at the bottom of the card (which I believe it does?) then I believe it is in tolerance of receiving a 10?
https://www.psacard.com/resources/gr...andards#detail



I have always wondered that too. How could a card that old or older stay so sharp and clean after all these years?

I am not suggesting it isn't possible, I would just like to know how cards like these were saved/preserved when I highly doubt any type of card savers/sheets were available way back then.

Can I assume most were placed between pages of thick books? I'd honestly like to know what collectors did way back then.

Most of the old time collections were stored in cigar boxes. By stacking them horizontally they were protected from further wear, assuming nobody took them out to look at them. The card would have to have been placed in the cigar box in Mint condition of course, which is difficult enough, then preserved that way for a century.

Is it reasonable to question then how so many T206's remain to this day in pristine or near pristine condition? Yes, that's a fair question. There have been some finds over the years of pristine cards, so some of the 8's, 9's and 10's are perfectly original. But not all.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by RedsFan1941

OUTRAGEOUS!!! but at least the board is finally talking about a heritage auction.

We need to work in parking costs and eBay bucks to steer this thread back to where it belongs.

Regardless, there are worse 10s in the auction than even this one. Remmeber, a lot of these cards come from the Harris collection.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by calvindog

We need to work in parking costs and eBay bucks to steer this thread back to where it belongs.

Regardless, there are worse 10s in the auction than even this one. Remmeber, a lot of these cards come from the Harris collection.

Is that right? So a number of these were cracked and re-submitted?

[calvindog]

I think the flips just changed to remove the Harris pedigree.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I think the flips just changed to remove the Harris pedigree.

For good reason.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

For good reason.

I'm far too lazy and disinterested to look, does the write up mention the pedigree?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I'm far too lazy and disinterested to look, does the write up mention the pedigree?

LOL

Wait. You're serious?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I think the flips just changed to remove the Harris pedigree.

I wonder if I could do that as well. http://www.net54baseball.com/forum/i...s/confused.gif


scan0007.jpg

[calvindog]

But it "presents well!"

[Sean]

Originally Posted by calvindog

But it "presents well!"

Perhaps when it eventually gets sold it will get a High End certification.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by calvindog

We need to work in parking costs and eBay bucks to steer this thread back to where it belongs.

Regardless, there are worse 10s in the auction than even this one. Remmeber, a lot of these cards come from the Harris collection.

As painful as it is to say, I agree with Jeff on this. This card should be no higher than an 8 IMO, the upper left corner regardless of the cut, simply keeps this card way below a grade of 10, not even close... Also, there are Harris cards out there that look like Stevie Wonder trimmed them....

[swarmee]

Not deserving of a PSA, but since the question was asked:
1) Feathering on top right is not usually discounted since it's a factory cut.
2) Card was graded many (20?) years ago.
3) Top/bottom centering is not nearly 70/30. There's an optical illusion going on because of the top prong.
4) Back centering is pretty awful. PSA 10s only have to be 75/25 on back, but this definitely isn't.
5) Not sure when their current rules on grading were defined. It's possible those came in after this one was graded.

Someone who doesn't care about the grade (but likes the card) could make a lot of their investment back by sending it to PSA and having them regrade it, then take the cashout to the current value.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Not deserving of a PSA, but since the question was asked:
1) Feathering on top right is not usually discounted since it's a factory cut.
2) Card was graded many (20?) years ago.
3) Top/bottom centering is not nearly 70/30. There's an optical illusion going on because of the top prong.
4) Back centering is pretty awful. PSA 10s only have to be 75/25 on back, but this definitely isn't.
5) Not sure when their current rules on grading were defined. It's possible those came in after this one was graded.

Someone who doesn't care about the grade (but likes the card) could make a lot of their investment back by sending it to PSA and having them regrade it, then take the cashout to the current value.

Good luck getting a check back from PSA on this one. I'd be willing to wager against that happening.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Good luck getting a check back from PSA on this one. I'd be willing to wager against that happening.

Yeah no way are they writing checks because cards were graded under looser standards back in the day.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Good luck getting a check back from PSA on this one. I'd be willing to wager against that happening.

More likely that PSA will tell you that someone cracked a holder and slipped the flip and this 8 (OC) card in.

[irv]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Most of the old time collections were stored in cigar boxes. By stacking them horizontally they were protected from further wear, assuming nobody took them out to look at them. The card would have to have been placed in the cigar box in Mint condition of course, which is difficult enough, then preserved that way for a century.

Is it reasonable to question then how so many T206's remain to this day in pristine or near pristine condition? Yes, that's a fair question. There have been some finds over the years of pristine cards, so some of the 8's, 9's and 10's are perfectly original. But not all.

Thanks Barry. I also read that thread about the Southern Find, that is something I never considered.

Originally Posted by swarmee

Not deserving of a PSA, but since the question was asked:
1) Feathering on top right is not usually discounted since it's a factory cut.
2) Card was graded many (20?) years ago.
3) Top/bottom centering is not nearly 70/30. There's an optical illusion going on because of the top prong.
4) Back centering is pretty awful. PSA 10s only have to be 75/25 on back, but this definitely isn't.
5) Not sure when their current rules on grading were defined. It's possible those came in after this one was graded.

Someone who doesn't care about the grade (but likes the card) could make a lot of their investment back by sending it to PSA and having them regrade it, then take the cashout to the current value.

Can one not request the grade remain the same when submitting for a reholder/new flip or would the TPG's say the cards no longer meet the grade we gave them X number of years ago and need to be regraded?