Check-out your T206 Cobb (bat off) cards for micro PROOF marks

[tedzan]

Hey you T206 collectors that hunt for unusual printing characteristics on T206 cards, have you noticed these trivial (micro) "PROOF" marks that are approx. centered
on all four sides of this card ?

At first glance, I thought these marks were "printing freaks"......but, after seeing them on all five of my Cobb's, they appear to be by "design". It's funny, I had never
noticed them before.


micro PROOF mark..................................v........... .................................................. .................................................v
..
micro PROOF mark................................/\................................................. . .................................................. .........../\

............................................. SOVEREIGN 350 .................................................. ..................................... PIEDMONT 350-460



micro PROOF mark...................................v.......... .................................................. .................................................. .....v
..
micro PROOF mark................................../\................................................. . .................................................. ............../\

.................................................. OLD MILL .................................................. ............................................. AMERICAN BEAUTY 460


micro PROOF mark...........v




So guys, check-out your Cobb(s) to see if these PROOF marks are consistently on all the T206 Cobb's with this pose ?

Furthermore, has anyone noticed these exact marks on other T206 subjects ? ?


TED Z

[ynnek4]

Yep, mine has that as well. Pretty cool.

[jp1216]

Funny, I can't see a mark on mine.....

[honus94566]

I took a quick glance through my T260 HOFers and this mark seems pretty common. I see it on the Cobb bat off, green cy young portrait, crawford, huggins, and others. Actually the green cy young portrait appears to have the mark on both top and bottom.

Let me check through my planks & wagners and I'll see if the mark appears on those too...

[Texxxx]

I have lots of those marks on my cards. In every color and every side.

[deadballfreaK]

Originally Posted by Texxxx

I have lots of those marks on my cards. In every color and every side.

Same here.

[Texxxx]

Some of them go inside also and some have several in one spot.

[Eric72]

Ted,

I saw your post and took a closer look at my T206 cards. Much to my surprise, I found a mark similar to the ones you found on your Cobb specimens.



Great catch!

Best Regards,

Eric

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey you T206 collectors that hunt for unusual printing characteristics on T206 cards, have you noticed these trivial (micro) "PROOF" marks that are approx. centered
on all four sides of this card ?

At first glance, I thought these marks were "printing freaks"......but, after seeing them on all five of my Cobb's, they appear to be by "design". It's funny, I had never
noticed them before.


micro PROOF mark..................................v........... .................................................. .................................................v
..
micro PROOF mark................................/\................................................. . .................................................. .........../\

............................................. SOVEREIGN 350 .................................................. ..................................... PIEDMONT 350-460



micro PROOF mark...................................v.......... .................................................. .................................................. .....v
..
micro PROOF mark................................../\................................................. . .................................................. ............../\

.................................................. OLD MILL .................................................. ............................................. AMERICAN BEAUTY 460


micro PROOF mark...........v




So guys, check-out your Cobb(s) to see if these PROOF marks are consistently on all the T206 Cobb's with this pose ?

Furthermore, has anyone noticed these exact marks on other T206 subjects ? ?


TED Z

Hey T206 crazies, I don't see anything, here is mine.

Joe

[perezfan]

Joe;

Yours (with no proof marks) is the FREAK!

Congrats

[Blitzu]

You'll find those marks on a ton of T206's. I noticed that they are easiest to find on the T206 piedmont 350's for whatever reason. Take a look at them or just start scrolling through pictures on eBay and you'll see them on a lot of cards.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Ted,

I saw your post and took a closer look at my T206 cards. Much to my surprise, I found a mark similar to the ones you found on your Cobb specimens.



Great catch!

Best Regards,

Eric

Thanx Eric

Here are my Dygert cards....the leftmost card is a PIEDMONT 350, the other two are SOVEREIGN 350. The example in the middle has this mark,
while it is missing the on the PIEDMONT card....and, hardly noticeable on the rightmost card.






TED Z

[steve B]

These are leftover layout marks from the transfers used to lay out the plates. They're usually a bit big before being erased. The marks are used to make sure the plates are laid out correctly and that each color matches the others.

They're not always consistent, so any particular color for any particlular front might have them or not. They'll eventually be a help figuring out possible sheet configurations, since it's possible to identify different positions.

Here's the top center of Batch showing Black,pink,and blue on one, and black and a diffeent blue mark on another.



There are also a few odd remnants found on some corners. Batch again, the same two cards. One with Light blue having a stray line to the right with darker blue showing small one towards the top. The other has a light blue or maybe gray mark pointing up, that the other doesn't have.



I've been using them to get some idea of how many times a particular card might have been on a sheet. Mostly looking at the rarities, Wagner Plank and Magie which were all probably only on one sheet. So if there are say 6-8 different Magies, that makes me fairly confident that each card was there 8 times. (Approximately, I think the layouts were a bit more complicated than that.)

And yes, there are 6-8 very slightly different Magies, all with back differences that are consistent, so if the front has a particular pattern of alignment marks, the back will always have the same flaws.

Steve B

[t206blogcom]

Don't really see one on mine:

[RCMcKenzie]

Here's one on a T213-3 Cobb...

t213-3cobb165.jpgt213-3cobbb166.jpg

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey you T206 collectors that hunt for unusual printing characteristics on T206 cards, have you noticed these trivial (micro) "PROOF" marks that are approx. centered
on all four sides of this card ?

At first glance, I thought these marks were "printing freaks"......but, after seeing them on all five of my Cobb's, they appear to be by "design". It's funny, I had never
noticed them before.


micro PROOF mark..................................v........... .................................................. .................................................v
..
micro PROOF mark................................/\................................................. . .................................................. .........../\

............................................. SOVEREIGN 350 .................................................. ..................................... PIEDMONT 350-460



micro PROOF mark...................................v
..
micro PROOF mark................................../\

.................................................. OLD MILL .................................................. ............................................. AMERICAN BEAUTY 460


micro PROOF mark...........v




So guys, check-out your Cobb(s) to see if these PROOF marks are consistently on all the T206 Cobb's with this pose ?

Furthermore, has anyone noticed these exact marks on other T206 subjects ? ?
TED Z

Hey guys

Upon closer observation, my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 Cobb does not have these marks. So, I'm retracting what I initially said that all 5 of my Cobb's
have these marks. Only 4 of them have the marks.

AMERICAN BEAUTY 460




TED Z

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Thanx Eric

Here are my Dygert cards....the leftmost card is a PIEDMONT 350, the other two are SOVEREIGN 350. The example in the middle has this mark,
while it is missing the on the PIEDMONT card....and, hardly noticeable on the rightmost card.






TED Z

Ted,

Sweet Caporal 350 back on the one I posted. I saw a few anomalies on the other cards I have; however, none were quite as distinctive.

My question...both to you, and the board at large...is this: Is there any way these marks might help to reveal sheet placement of individual cards?

After all, I have been on this board for a while and nobody has brought this up yet. Marks on the back are being scrutinized; however, Ted might have opened up a new avenue of exploration.

Thoughts, anyone?

Best Regards,

Eric

[teetwoohsix]

Hi Eric,

I'm not too sure that we could use these marks to figure out a sheet layout. These marks are on all kinds of T206's,,, not just the Cobb (bat off). I think so far the best thing going to reconstruct a likely sheet is the double name cards (both same-name, and two different names) and Steve's plate scratch matching idea.

Joe- Your Cobb may have that mark at the bottom center? It's kind of hard for me to tell, but with a loupe it may show.

Nice cards everyone!!

Sincerely, Clayton

[steve B]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Hi Eric,

I'm not too sure that we could use these marks to figure out a sheet layout. These marks are on all kinds of T206's,,, not just the Cobb (bat off). I think so far the best thing going to reconstruct a likely sheet is the double name cards (both same-name, and two different names) and Steve's plate scratch matching idea.

Joe- Your Cobb may have that mark at the bottom center? It's kind of hard for me to tell, but with a loupe it may show.

Nice cards everyone!!

Sincerely, Clayton

It probably got lost in my earlier post, but these marks can help with sheet layouts. It's not yet completely clear how many of each player were on a sheet, and these small marks and a few others make each position identifiable from the others.

I've got enough scans of Magies to say there are between 6 and 8 different. With Magie probably only having been on one sheet that makes it likely that each player was on a sheet 6-8 times.

What will be interesting is if the double name players have fewer uses than the others. That would mean a layout that's not balanced, so maybe 8 cards high, with some players getting an entire column, and others half or less.

I'm still looking at just how to get all that into a database, and how to get enough scans that are good enough to get more detail.


Steve B

[HOF Auto Rookies]

I wish I had a Cobb to check lol, that's my favorite Cobb, gorgeous card

[ullmandds]

c'mon guys...if u want to see the really interesting printing characteristics...you need to pull out the scanning electron microscope...who's got one?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Ted,

Sweet Caporal 350 back on the one I posted. I saw a few anomalies on the other cards I have; however, none were quite as distinctive.

My question...both to you, and the board at large...is this: Is there any way these marks might help to reveal sheet placement of individual cards?

After all, I have been on this board for a while and nobody has brought this up yet. Marks on the back are being scrutinized; however, Ted might have opened up a new avenue of exploration.

Thoughts, anyone?

Best Regards,

Eric

Eric

At this point in time, checking-out these "marks" on some of the T206's, there isn't any consistent pattern that I have seen.
Therefore, I don't know what we can draw from them.

Anyhow, it would be neat if some one comes up with an idea. I will continue to examine my collection of T206 cards, perhaps
something here will strike me.

Thanks for your serious interest in this.


TED Z

[Paul S]

Probably not on mine. There are spots in the general areas where one would might expect, except they are the same tone as the Polar Bear tobacco staining. Drat!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

c'mon guys...if u want to see the really interesting printing characteristics...you need to pull out the scanning electron microscope...who's got one?

Hey Pete

I knew when I posted this thread, it would elicit a "cute" response from you....what took you so long ?

An "electron microscope"

I haven't heard that term since I was in College. And, you can guess how long ago that was

Thanks for the laugh,

TED Z

[thehoodedcoder]

not to change topic here...but the old mill blue back walsh card had a proof mark on it that you can barely see on the card front.

im not sure why this made me just think of this but i never mentioned this any where before.

sorry for the totally random thought. carry on

kevin

[tedzan]

Hey Kevin

Absolutely no need to apologize.

As I requested in my Post #1 here..... " Furthermore, has anyone
noticed these exact marks on other T206 subjects ? ? "

So, thanks for your input regarding thr Blue OLD MILL Walsh card.


TED Z

[ullmandds]

Gee, thanks Ted...Cute...and predictable!!!!!