Bad Experience with Fellow Member

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

1

[Bpm0014]

Wow, that's pretty bad! It looks torn. He won't give a refund?? Are you sure? That would be a first. Sellers are usually pretty easy to deal with here!

[timzcardz]

0 here.

[jb217676]

Why did the photo get removed?

[brianp-beme]

Thanks for the heads up. I will never deal with that bad, bad '1' again.

Brian

[Leon]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Thanks for the heads up. I will never deal with that bad, bad '1' again.

Brian

1 is bad but you really have to watch out for 2.

[KingFisk]

Would like to know who seller is but would also like to understand what happened. Can we see scans again? I may have missed everything from initial post.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

I just don't think it's right to be denied a refund is all. He lied and stole from me in essence.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Name names. Otherwise this is a waste of everyone's time.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Name names. Otherwise this is a waste of everyone's time.

Ok when I get home from dinner I'll post photos and the message I got. Just didn't want this to turn into a huge deal which is why I deleted it originally. I want to just keep trading like always and thought this may hurt me by coming off nasty calling someone out, however if you guys feel I should tell then I promise I will to protect potential buyers.

[vintagesportscollector]

I agree a refund should be given, but if you are making a decision based on a crappy scan, without asking for a better one, and trusting the grading opinion of the seller, then you need to own some of this too. Live and learn and move on. Sorry to hear this happened to you.

Wouldn’t mind seeing the card and the original scan, so we know all the facts (how bad or light a crease is can be subjective), but maybe BEST to just close this one out and move on…we have enough Kangaroo Courts on this forum already.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think requests for refunds should be timely, but if one is made, generally it should be honored.

[KingFisk]

And in a thread like this it's always good to hear from seller to get both sides. Caveat emptor is plainly stated on the BST, but there is certainly a high standard of conduct that takes place here, which I believe would extend to timely returns, as Peter said. I've never had a bad experience here and would like to keep it that way.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[kailes2872]

I have started writing a response a few times and then stopped as I am trying to stay out of the ultimate trade up, like sands in the hourglass drama...

I guess I must be the only one that thinks that if the card was flippable for 50-100 bucks, then a card like a '56 Mantle would have been snatched up quickly on this board. There are enough people who do it for a living on a day to day basis that a liquid card like that would have been jumped on if there was value - yet those folks passed on it at that price because they knew their market.

I saw the card and the seller in the initial post. It is rough and was probably more fair or poor, but there picture was there and it was pretty evident. The seller negotiated and came down in price. He made a picture available. The OP thought that a flip was there, but it was not.

It could very well have been that the seller thought that the OP valued the card more than him and thought that it was more liquid - like he had mulch versus a gold bar or something like that.

Kinda feels like Caveat Emptor, but what do I know...

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

I have started writing a response a few times and then stopped as I am trying to stay out of the ultimate trade up, like sands in the hourglass drama...

I guess I must be the only one that thinks that if the card was flippable for 50-100 bucks, then a card like a '56 Mantle would have been snatched up quickly on this board. There are enough people who do it for a living on a day to day basis that a liquid card like that would have been jumped on if there was value - yet those folks passed on it at that price because they knew their market.

I saw the card and the seller in the initial post. It is rough and was probably more fair or poor, but there picture was there and it was pretty evident. The seller negotiated and came down in price. He made a picture available. The OP thought that a flip was there, but it was not.

It could very well have been that the seller thought that the OP valued the card more than him and thought that it was more liquid - like he had mulch versus a gold bar or something like that.

Kinda feels like Caveat Emptor, but what do I know...

Kevin, you could not tell it was poor from his photo. The photo you are referring to is what I took. That is where you can see how bad it actually is.

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

I have started writing a response a few times and then stopped as I am trying to stay out of the ultimate trade up, like sands in the hourglass drama...

I guess I must be the only one that thinks that if the card was flippable for 50-100 bucks, then a card like a '56 Mantle would have been snatched up quickly on this board. There are enough people who do it for a living on a day to day basis that a liquid card like that would have been jumped on if there was value - yet those folks passed on it at that price because they knew their market.

I saw the card and the seller in the initial post. It is rough and was probably more fair or poor, but there picture was there and it was pretty evident. The seller negotiated and came down in price. He made a picture available. The OP thought that a flip was there, but it was not.

It could very well have been that the seller thought that the OP valued the card more than him and thought that it was more liquid - like he had mulch versus a gold bar or something like that.

Kinda feels like Caveat Emptor, but what do I know...

Agree 100%. Saw this after I posted my previous comment.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Here you go.

Really not looking for attention or drama. I just want to protect the integrity of this board.

Message #1

Hey Tim,

I'd be buying it to try to make a few bucks, but can offer 200. If that works let me know and I can pay immediately. Thanks

Response:

I think you mean for the 1956 Topps, right?

Don't think I'll go quite there. How about 275? Putting a few items up over the next week or so. Trying to get the wife new counter tops in the kitchen...


Message #2

(I do not have a sent mailbox set up apparently) so it went something like...

I am offering you a price based on a 2 not a 3.


Response:

I will send it in myself if I don't get my price and I think it will be a 3 as I stated. Great eye appeal and it's from my personal collection where VG is my baseline. I already sent in my other 3 and it came back a 3. While I don't do this for a living and won't offer any guarantees, I think if I hang at 300 a collector will get it for pretty close to the price. I'll keep 275 offered to you if you change your mind. Heck, if you'll really pay tonight, 250. Good til 12pm EST.

No matter what, good luck to you. I also have 2 Red Hearts as well, one an SGC 4 and one nicer but ungraded. Would consider a straight sale as well at the right price.

(Yes I realize upon reading this that the no guarantees should have been a HUGE red flag, however he seemed knowledgeable as I took him at his word with the other 3 cards he got graded)


Here is the photo he had posted....






Here is what I got in the mail today...








Upon receiving the card I was very very disappointed.

I immediately sent him a message (don't have my sent messages) along the lines of..

Hello,

Just got the card and I must say I am disappointed. You told me this was VG but it is definitely NOT VG. I do not want any hard feelings, however I would like a refund due to the fact that this card is not as was described to me. Please get back to me asap.



His response:

Stephen,

There will be no refund. The card was well described we negotiated and you agreed to a price.

You will have no problem selling it at $250 to get out of the transaction yourself.

Have a good one,

Tim




I have since written to him 2 more times explaining I would rather not go to the board, and is $250 really worth ruining his reputation with the board over. No answer.

Although the motto on the BST is buyer beware, I was assuming satisfaction guaranteed as it always should be. No one is here to hurt someone else (or I thought).

His user ID is TimBegs.


Photos will be loaded soon.

[x2drich2000]

You could also just link to the original sale post which included his description as well.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=238614

DJ

[ramram]

This whole thread just drips.

Rob M

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

Here you go.



Response:

I will send it in myself if I don't get my price and I think it will be a 3 as I stated. Great eye appeal and it's from my personal collection where VG is my baseline. I already sent in my other 3 and it came back a 3. While I don't do this for a living and won't offer any guarantees, I think if I hang at 300 a collector will get it for pretty close to the price. I'll keep 275 offered to you if you change your mind. Heck, if you'll really pay tonight, 250. Good til 12pm EST.

No matter what, good luck to you. I also have 2 Red Hearts as well, one an SGC 4 and one nicer but ungraded. Would consider a straight sale as well at the right price.

(Yes I realize upon reading this that the no guarantees should have been a HUGE red flag, however he seemed knowledgeable as I took him at his word with the other 3 cards he got graded)




Here is what I got in the mail today...



Upon receiving the card I was very very disappointed.

I immediately sent him a message (don't have my sent messages) along the lines of..

Hello,

Just got the card and I must say I am disappointed. You told me this was VG but it is definitely NOT VG. I do not want any hard feelings, however I would like a refund due to the fact that this card is not as was described to me. Please get back to me asap.



His response:

Stephen,

There will be no refund. The card was well described we negotiated and you agreed to a price.

You will have no problem selling it at $250 to get out of the transaction yourself.

Have a good one,

Tim




I have since written to him 2 more times explaining I would rather not go to the board, and is $250 really worth ruining his reputation with the board over. No answer.

Although the motto on the BST is buyer beware, I was assuming satisfaction guaranteed as it always should be. No one is here to hurt someone else (or I thought).

His user ID is TimBegs.


Photos will be loaded soon.

The guy used a few 'seller tactic's favorites that i reference in other threads:

1. Fake Purpose: Usually its for medical bills or something but in this case its for the wife's kitchen countertops

2. From Personal Collection


Why not just refund the card. But man, thats why graded cards make sense. There would be soooo many differences of opinion of what a VG, or G card is.

I think a Seller can just say 'NO RETURNS EVER' right up front to never worry about buyers remorse as well..

either way it does look Eyeonvintage has issues with more than just one guy on net54..

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

I have started writing a response a few times and then stopped as I am trying to stay out of the ultimate trade up, like sands in the hourglass drama...

I guess I must be the only one that thinks that if the card was flippable for 50-100 bucks, then a card like a '56 Mantle would have been snatched up quickly on this board. There are enough people who do it for a living on a day to day basis that a liquid card like that would have been jumped on if there was value - yet those folks passed on it at that price because they knew their market.

I saw the card and the seller in the initial post. It is rough and was probably more fair or poor, but there picture was there and it was pretty evident. The seller negotiated and came down in price. He made a picture available. The OP thought that a flip was there, but it was not.

It could very well have been that the seller thought that the OP valued the card more than him and thought that it was more liquid - like he had mulch versus a gold bar or something like that.

Kinda feels like Caveat Emptor, but what do I know...

Yea....The ultimate trade up, you should have gotten this card in a PSA 7 for Stephen to come out OK....

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

OK, so he was definitely a little quick with the thread, but I HATE when guys say "any chance of reaching an agreement is now dead" That's a total copout. Either you'll give a refund or you won't. Clearly you won't. There is no way I can conscience that. As with most situations both parties bear some blame, but ultimately it can be made right at no loss (hit him up for shipping if you like) so what GOOD reason can you have for not issuing a refund???

[slipk1068]

He may be wrong for starting a thread before giving you adequate time to respond to his refund request, but you are WAY wrong for not issuing a refund. That card not a 3. We like to feel safe around here. A refund should be issued or you should be banned.

[rainier2004]

I guess I am surprised by some responses on here. I would agree that Tim needs to issue a refund though.

What surprises me is that everyone is jumping on the claim the Tim said it would grade a 3. Man, I don't even listen to someone when they say stuff like that as I will determine what it would grade, not someone else if I am buying.

So would the deal have been acceptable if Tim hadn't said "it should grade a 3"?

[slipk1068]

Interesting. I feel if he hadn't mentioned grading a 3, the buyer wouldn't be entitled to a refund but should still get one. This isn't the ebay jungle. I like to believe BST is somewhat safer. Even on ebay, the buyer would be able to file a claim through paypal and likely get a refund.

If I was the seller I would be angry that this was taken public before I had a chance to make it right. VERY angry. My initial reaction would probably be the same or similar to the seller. But if I put myself in the buyer's shoes, the card was not described properly and the pic was at best, poor quality. As the buyer, I might even think the pic was deceptive. Refund less whatever he is out for shipping seems like the right thing to do.

[sterlingfox]

I agree that a refund should be issued minus the shipping, or there should be an immediate ban. I wouldn't feel safe anymore in the BST, otherwise.

[seablaster]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

So would the deal have been acceptable if Tim hadn't said "it should grade a 3"?

I'd be inclined to say yes.

The seller indicated that he is not a professional and offers no guarantee. That is perfectly fine, but then I wouldn't make a prediction as to what the card would possibly grade. I would suggest posting clear, accurate scans and allow potential buyers to make their own determination.

Perhaps it is a question of degrees. To me, I believe that card would grade a 1.5. That is enough standard deviations away from a 3 where I think a potential recipient would be unhappy with the transaction.

I'd also agree that the seller had little time to respond before drastic action was taken by the creation of this thread.

[Paul S]

Two complete rookies, one a seller and the other a buyer, both way in over their respective heads in what would normally be the easiest of transactions. One should learn how to provide a decent representation of their product in both images and words, and the other undertaking a huge project by having to resort to a ton of help when nothing goes as exactly planned. Issue a refund and be done with it. Then each take a step back until they know the simplest of academics. - P. S(p)ector

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by seablaster

I'd be inclined to say yes.

The seller indicated that he is not a professional and offers no guarantee. That is perfectly fine, but then I wouldn't make a prediction as to what the card would possibly grade. I would suggest posting clear, accurate scans and allow potential buyers to make their own determination.

Perhaps it is a question of degrees. To me, I believe that card would grade a 1.5. That is enough standard deviations away from a 3 where I think a potential recipient would be unhappy with the transaction.

I'd also agree that the seller had little time to respond before drastic action was taken by the creation of this thread.

I still surprised when people predict a half grade. Half grades occur so infrequently compared to a base grade . I would say a 1 or 2 range and not say 1.5

sometimes buyers beg for the seller to give an estimate of the grade when the seller says hes not a professional grader. So if the buyer begs and begs and the seller says, i guess it could be a 3....would the buyer also be entitled to a refund for the seller being so way off..

[Bored5000]

I don't think either side covered themselves in glory with this transaction. It seems like each side was looking to "get over" on the other one. That card would not grade as a "3" but the buyer didn't pay market rate for a "3," either.

VCP shows that a PSA "3" for a '56 Mantle is $374.36. Of the last 24 PSA 3 sales of the card, there isn't a single sale under $315.00. For SGC, the average sale price for a "3" is $337.13.

The buyer should be refunded, but it should raise some red flags when a raw card is priced 25-30 percent under VCP.

What a trainwreck over what really isn't a lot of money.

[EYECOLLECTVINTAGE]

Originally Posted by Bored5000

I don't think either side covered themselves in glory with this transaction. It seems like each side was looking to "get over" on the other one. That card would not grade as a "3" but the buyer didn't pay market rate for a "3," either.

VCP shows that a PSA "3" for a '56 Mantle is $374.36. Of the last 24 PSA 3 sales of the card, there isn't a single sale under $315.00. For SGC, the average sale price for a "3" is $337.13.

The buyer should be refunded, but it should raise some red flags when a raw card is priced 25-30 percent under VCP.

What a trainwreck over what really isn't a lot of money.

I wasn't looking to get over on anyone. My first message stated my intention. I wanted to make a few bucks on it. Wasn't lieinn to the guy. And I agree, it may not be a lot of money, but shouldn't this community be protected?

[Bored5000]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

I wasn't looking to get over on anyone. My first message stated my intention. I wanted to make a few bucks on it. Wasn't lieinn to the guy. And I agree, it may not be a lot of money, but shouldn't this community be protected?

That is why I said you should get a refund. But a true "3" is not a $250 card. That pretty much means looking to get over on someone to me.

The seller misrepresented the condition, and you should get a refund because of that; the price you paid wasn't 30 percent under VCP. Not to be flippant, but a 30 percent discount off of VCP falls into the "If something looks too good to be true..." category, IMO.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by EYECOLLECTVINTAGE

I wasn't looking to get over on anyone. My first message stated my intention. I wanted to make a few bucks on it. Wasn't lieinn to the guy. And I agree, it may not be a lot of money, but shouldn't this community be protected?

Others are protected... By their knowledge of the hobby, and by not having a desire to grab something cheaply off of others to make a quick buck.

And you stated your intention... So did he.
You said it yourself... He said "I THINK it will be a 3"
And "I WON'T offer any guarantees".....
You ACCEPTED those conditions making the purchase.... Right?

Is there no PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY left in the world??

Honestly Stephen, accept the position you put yourself in, and move on like a big boy...
Its a learning experience that you sorely need.

Focus on your trade up scenario, as you seem to be getting support and it looks like you could make that a reality.
Its not a huge loss to take, and considering the enthusiam you show (which I like), you'll spring back, plus you'd earn the respect of a lot of board members by just moving on.

Just my opinion Stephen, but don't let this scenario sour you.....
Everyone has transactions they regret... You'll rise above it in the end.
Take care.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

OK, so he was definitely a little quick with the thread, but I HATE when guys say "any chance of reaching an agreement is now dead" That's a total copout. Either you'll give a refund or you won't. Clearly you won't. There is no way I can conscience that. As with most situations both parties bear some blame, but ultimately it can be made right at no loss (hit him up for shipping if you like) so what GOOD reason can you have for not issuing a refund???

Steven, this is the real world and not the Ultimate Trade Up. When grown men make deals, there are winners and losers. Every person on this board has suffered a touch of buyers remorse or felt like they over paid for a card, myself included. The difference is that most of us deal with it and move on. Certainly, running around trashing people is the way you choose to handle it. I'm a bad person because you feel you overpaid for a card. If that's way you want it and you want to sing about it on the internet to the net54 members, feel free. However, any hope of remediation (a partial refund, a better deal on another card, etc.) is now completely out the window despite being completely realistic less than 14 hours ago. And you actually have no one but yourself to than




Right we had that situation occur previousuly the old 'i would of given you a refund but because of your attitude or whatever reason i am not now'

If somebody says that it means they never were going to give a refund. I do agree that it was too quick to trash somebody on a thread after a quick deadline. However if i was the seller i would of said, Refund given and by the way i wasonly emailed a request for a refund it appears 3 hours ago and i just read my email only to find out i am being trashed in 3 hours.

I have refunded the money like i would have even before a trashy thread was made against me had i been given more than an hour to receive the email etc.....

[Sean1125]

FWIW I asked this member how much for a lot of cards he offered me and he exploded on me for simply asking a price.

Originally Posted by Sean1125
What is your group price?

Yesterday, 01:12 AM
Timbegs

Default Re: 1953 Bowman Colow w BOTH MANTLES
Is this a joke? I showed you the cards; make an offer or don't. Very simple.

Forgive me if I have the wrong person. I thought you said you buy cards. If not, do you know anyone who does?

I'm looking for a bid. I don't do this for a living; I am just trying to raise some funds to surprise my wife with some new countertops in the kitchen. So again, let me know if you have a bid and are a card buyer. Or can direct to me to a person who might put a price on them rather than answer questions with questions. An actual card buyer.

I'm not giving them away for nothing and will be listing all 23 cards as one lot on eBay in a few hours. I figured I would give SOMEONE from this board a chance to get a good deal first but I've had no takers and not one offer despite giving net54 a decent head start.

So if you have a price where you'll buy them, you should show it. I will counter if I don't just hit the bid. The sooner, the better. I will take what I can get and these should draw interest and I imagine I'll sell them by tonight the latest on eBay as I need the money.

I thought people would at least make some kind of offer on this board. I am kind of surprised, honestly.

Anyway, if I made a mistake and you don't buy cards, I apologize. If you buy cards please make an offer.

Thanks
Tim


I let him know I felt his response was rude and unwarranted. He did apologize after the fact.

[Peter_Spaeth]

LOL.
Cues up Cyndi Lauper.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

FWIW I asked this member how much for a lot of cards he offered me and he exploded on me for simply asking a price.

Originally Posted by Sean1125
What is your group price?

Yesterday, 01:12 AM
Timbegs

Default Re: 1953 Bowman Colow w BOTH MANTLES
Is this a joke? I showed you the cards; make an offer or don't. Very simple.

Forgive me if I have the wrong person. I thought you said you buy cards. If not, do you know anyone who does?

I'm looking for a bid. I don't do this for a living; I am just trying to raise some funds to surprise my wife with some new countertops in the kitchen. So again, let me know if you have a bid and are a card buyer. Or can direct to me to a person who might put a price on them rather than answer questions with questions. An actual card buyer.

I'm not giving them away for nothing and will be listing all 23 cards as one lot on eBay in a few hours. I figured I would give SOMEONE from this board a chance to get a good deal first but I've had no takers and not one offer despite giving net54 a decent head start.

So if you have a price where you'll buy them, you should show it. I will counter if I don't just hit the bid. The sooner, the better. I will take what I can get and these should draw interest and I imagine I'll sell them by tonight the latest on eBay as I need the money.

I thought people would at least make some kind of offer on this board. I am kind of surprised, honestly.

Anyway, if I made a mistake and you don't buy cards, I apologize. If you buy cards please make an offer.

Thanks
Tim


I let him know I felt his response was rude and unwarranted. He did apologize after the fact.

When a seller says he is giving a good deal, but also says he doesnt sell cards for a living than I am not sure how he knows what a good deal is. Plus, the fact nobody was willing to pay his price would seem he does not know how to price.

I think he should of asked whether you buy cards to sell them later at a loss....you could of said no to that

Given what I have read from this seller and buyer-EYEON in the earlier transaction that is subject to the thread, it was really the wrong seller for the wrong buyer.... if they made 3 deals, SOMETHING bad would of happened but it occurred on the first deal.


Its sort of like when drivers pick up hitchhikers in shady areas. I was told never to pick up any hitchhikers because hitchhikers can be dangerous. I was also told never to accept a random ride from someone because the drivers can be dangerous. Thus you have dangerous drivers picking up dangerous hitchhikers. Its an issue of who will take out the knife first i guess. Sooner or later SOMETHING bad will happen.

[timzcardz]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

FWIW I asked this member how much for a lot of cards he offered me and he exploded on me for simply asking a price.

Originally Posted by Sean1125
What is your group price?

Yesterday, 01:12 AM
Timbegs

Default Re: 1953 Bowman Colow w BOTH MANTLES
Is this a joke? I showed you the cards; make an offer or don't. Very simple.

Forgive me if I have the wrong person. I thought you said you buy cards. If not, do you know anyone who does?
.
.
.
.
.

That is hysterical!

I'm not sure I can even count how many times someone who is offering something for sale has given me a similar response when I ask how much.

Always happens to me at card shows. I see something that piques my interest, inquire about the price and get a response like "Gee, I don;t don;t know. What do you think it's worth?"

Mind boggling.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by timzcardz

That is hysterical!

I'm not sure I can even count how many times someone who is offering something for sale has given me a similar response when I ask how much.

Always happens to me at card shows. I see something that piques my interest, inquire about the price and get a response like "Gee, I don;t don;t know. What do you think it's worth?"

Mind boggling.

I dont know what kind of card shows you go to, but I have never had that response.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

FWIW I asked this member how much for a lot of cards he offered me and he exploded on me for simply asking a price.

Originally Posted by Sean1125
What is your group price?

Yesterday, 01:12 AM
Timbegs

Default Re: 1953 Bowman Colow w BOTH MANTLES
Is this a joke? I showed you the cards; make an offer or don't. Very simple.

Forgive me if I have the wrong person. I thought you said you buy cards. If not, do you know anyone who does?

I'm looking for a bid. I don't do this for a living; I am just trying to raise some funds to surprise my wife with some new countertops in the kitchen. So again, let me know if you have a bid and are a card buyer. Or can direct to me to a person who might put a price on them rather than answer questions with questions. An actual card buyer.

I'm not giving them away for nothing and will be listing all 23 cards as one lot on eBay in a few hours. I figured I would give SOMEONE from this board a chance to get a good deal first but I've had no takers and not one offer despite giving net54 a decent head start.

So if you have a price where you'll buy them, you should show it. I will counter if I don't just hit the bid. The sooner, the better. I will take what I can get and these should draw interest and I imagine I'll sell them by tonight the latest on eBay as I need the money.

I thought people would at least make some kind of offer on this board. I am kind of surprised, honestly.

Anyway, if I made a mistake and you don't buy cards, I apologize. If you buy cards please make an offer.

Thanks
Tim




I let him know I felt his response was rude and unwarranted. He did apologize after the fact.

Wow.....alrighty then.

[KingFisk]

If Net54 were a sitcom and all the members characters, Stephen would be the one who gets the TV Guide cover. And I mean that as a compliment.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[AGuinness]

N


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

N

O?

[TheNightmanCometh]

It's fitting that I come in and make a comment after this issue is completely dead, but YOLO.

Stephen, it sucks when you feel you made a deal with good intentions, but the deal turned bad. Nobody wants to have to go through that, so I feel for you a bit because you went in with a lot of trust and that trust was taken advantage of.

That being said, you have to do a better job of getting all the information needed to make an accurate decision on whether or not what you purchase is going to allow you to flip it for a profit. The picture he supplied was terrible, and you should have asked for better pictures. Enough pictures to where you can tell 100% that the card is worth the money you're about to pay for it. If you can't get that then don't do the deal. Two, you can't just trust people's word on things. Even if he says he thinks it'd grade at a 3, that doesn't mean that's true. He never claimed to be an expert, so basically you trusted a guess and are upset that his guess wasn't accurate. Three, you can't come on here and do what you did, at least not in the time frame that you did it. You came on here before things had finalized and bad mouthed him. I don't like eBay very much, but one thing I do like about them is that if you buy a card and it's not what was advertised then you have to go through a process to get a refund. I believe that process takes at least a couple of weeks. You got the card, messaged him, and shortly thereafter posted this thread in order to get Net54 to guilt him into giving you a refund. If you had waited at least a couple of weeks, and done everything you could do in order to get a refund, and then came here after the issue was completed, in order to out a bad seller who refused to give you a refund, despite your best efforts, you'd have garnered more sympathy to your plight. As it stands now, you've hurt your reputation by jumping the gun and putting the seller on blast before the situation came to a complete conclusion.

In the end, I think you felt a bit betrayed and you did what you did in an attempt to make things right, but you went about it all wrong. In the future, get better pics, don't take the sellers word for anything, pay using a CC, and if you ever have an issue with another seller, PM Leon or a member you can trust and run the situation by them before taking it to the board.

I wish you the best of luck on your goal of getting the Mantle.