NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:20 PM
DavidG1966 DavidG1966 is offline
David G0ld
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 53
Default FAKE packs and an FBI Fraud Investigation: What would YOU do?

I find myself in between a rock and a hard place (PSA and StarPaxMax) and I face some moral and ethical questions:

1) PSA found someone who they claim was submitting fake packs
2) He was a very well respected unopen expert on their boards ID: StarPaxMan and they have banned him. He is known as pepis on this forum.
3) They had authenticated and graded about 200 of his packs before someone turned the person into PSA
4) PSA then turned the case over to the FBI and there is an ongoing investigation.
5) Steve Hart, PSA's pack authenticator, told me that the person beat him (IMO - No one is perfect! It takes an honorable person to admit to being beat)
6) PSA's pack authenticator says some of the 200+/- packs are fake but does not know how many or which ones
7) PSA/FBI still have about 100 additional packs in their possession. The submissions that were there when the person was turned in.
8) PSA's pack authenticator gave me the list of packs the person had authenticated. I do not know nor did the authenticator tell me which are real or fake.
9) I verified that some of my better packs are on that list. There are some high profile packs on the list.
10) A friend of mine has a pack on the list.
11) I unknowingly sold several packs on the list a while ago.
12) I want to get out of this part of the hobby now. It is too dirty for me.
13) I called some higher ups at PSA looking for assistance and guidance and was treated like crap and given no help.
14) My entire user profile including thread posts and PM's has now been deleted from PSA's forums. I had a lot of information pertaining to this in my PM's
15) Steve Hart is the only one remotely associated with PSA that gave me the time of day. I appreciate his assistance and cooperation.
16) Steve Hart from PSA feels like I should ask the person for my money back or I should just sell the packs since no one knows for sure whats real or fake
17) One of the packs on the list is on Ebay right now!

Questions for the board:
A) Is it morally ok for me to sell the packs on the list?
B) How would you feel if you saw a pack you owned on the list?
C) Should I disclose to my friend that he could have a fake pack even though I told Steve Hart I would not share the list with anyone
D) Should I contact the consigner of the packs I sold and let him know he may have passed on fake packs
E) I have the entire list of possible bad packs. Should I post them so people can view it or keep it a secret because I told Steve Hart I would not share the list with anyone.*
F) Should I at least expose the pack I see on ebay right now?* Even though it may be real?

Last edited by DavidG1966; 01-23-2013 at 01:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:37 PM
markf31 markf31 is offline
Mark Fox
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 851
Default

I think you need to tread very carefully. The list and the associated information that you have is part of an ongoing FBI investigation and you were given this information in what seems to be complete confidence by Steve Hart, who ironically is going to be heavily involved in the ongoing investigation as well. His act of disseminating this information to you could mean trouble for both you and him since it deals with information tied to the investigation and possible evidence in this ongoing investigation.

I would highly recommend you remain silent with the information you possess and under no circumstances release it, nor hint at its existence to anyone. I would also not act or take any actions where you would benefit from having known about the information such as questioning others or offering packs for sale since they could be construed as evidence, until the investigation by the authorities is completed. I would think any pack on the list would be considered evidence in the investigation. I would even recommend talking to your lawyer or a lawyer about this. The FBI does not take kindly to information about ongoing criminal investigations being leaked to anyone, especially the “public”.

Last edited by markf31; 01-23-2013 at 12:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:42 PM
DavidG1966 DavidG1966 is offline
David G0ld
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 53
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by markf31 View Post
I think you need to tread very carefully. The list and the associated information that you have is part of an ongoing FBI investigation and you were given this information in what seems to be complete confidence by Steve Hart, who ironically is going to be heavily involved in the ongoing investigation as well. His act of disseminating this information to you could mean trouble for both you and him since it deals with information tied to the investigation and possible evidence in this ongoing investigation.

I would highly recommend you remain silent with the information you possess and under no circumstances release it, nor hint at its existence to anyone. I would also not act or take any actions where you would benefit from having known about the information such as questions others or offering up what could be construed as evidence, until the investigation by the authorities is completed. I would even recommend talking to your lawyer or a lawyer about this. The FBI does not take kindly to information about ongoing criminal investigations being leaked to anyone, especially the “public”.
Yup! This is exactly the problem I face. I am stuck in the middle with packs that people involved think I should just sell and move on passing any potential issues to the next guy. If I disclose that the pack is potentially fake in any sales, who will buy it other then at a scrap price. I have a large investment and am stuck! Others could be stuck too and there is someone about to buy a pack on ebay right now that could potentially get stuck.

Last edited by DavidG1966; 01-23-2013 at 12:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:43 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

I don't have an opinion on the morality of it, but I think knowing what you know I would be uncomfortable selling packs that seem to have a pretty high chance of being fake. Put it this way, if you were a buyer and the truth came to light later, would you be pissed off at the seller who didn't say anything? You probably would be.

Yeah, I suppose one could argue you're just selling PSA's opinion, but (easy to say I know) I don't think I would be comfortable.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:45 PM
DavidG1966 DavidG1966 is offline
David G0ld
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 53
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_spaeth View Post
i don't have an opinion on the morality of it, but i think knowing what you know i would be uncomfortable selling packs that seem to have a pretty high chance of being fake. Put it this way, if you were a buyer and the truth came to light later, would you be pissed off at the seller who didn't say anything? You probably would be.

Yeah, i suppose one could argue you're just selling psa's opinion, but (easy to say i know) i don't think i would be comfortable.
Exactly! I am SICK over the packs I unknowingly already sold.

Last edited by DavidG1966; 01-23-2013 at 12:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:45 PM
markf31 markf31 is offline
Mark Fox
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 851
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidG1966 View Post
Yup! This is exactly the problem I face. I am stuck in the middle with packs that people involved thinks I should just sell and move on. I have a large investment and am stuck! Others could be stuck too and there is someone about to buy a pack on ebay right now that could potentially get stuck.
Again, I'm no lawyer. But the information you possess is part of an ongoing investigation. I would highly recommend you speak to a lawyer immediately. Any move now on your part could put you into big trouble later on.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:45 PM
EvilKing00's Avatar
EvilKing00 EvilKing00 is offline
Steve P
Steven Pacc.hiano
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 2,405
Default

i would agree with everything mark said and u also may want to call a lawyer
__________________
Successful transactions with: Drumback, Mart8081, Obcmac, Tonyo, markf31, gnaz01, rainier2004, EASE, Bobsbats, Craig M, TistaT202, Seiklis, Kenny Cole, T's please, Vic, marcdelpercio, poorlydrawncat, brianp-beme, mybuddyinc, Glchen, chernieto , old-baseball , Donscards, Centauri, AddieJoss, T2069bk,206fix, joe v, smokelessjoe, eggoman, botn, canjond

Looking for T205's or anything Babe Ruth...email or PM me if you have any to sell.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:48 PM
drmondobueno's Avatar
drmondobueno drmondobueno is offline
Keith
ke.ith tem.ple
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Eastern sierras, Calif
Posts: 885
Default

Hello, David. My name is Keith temple. I worked for a company that was defrauded in the mid 80's to the tune of over a billion bucks. I feel for your dilemma, there. No easy answers here.

Me personally, I would not sell any packs in my possession that were on this list. Period. Before I published information from a third party who worked for a publicly traded company, I would see a lawyer. Before I called anyone and said a pack is suspect, I would talk to that lawyer. Before I betrayed he trust of ths third party, I would let that person know of my intentions...arghh, this brings back so many bad memories.

Oh yeah, you may want to talk directly with the investigators...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:49 PM
DavidG1966 DavidG1966 is offline
David G0ld
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 53
Default

This is exactly why I am seeking opinions on what to do. My advise from PSA and StarPaxMan was to just sell them. How can I do that?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:55 PM
markf31 markf31 is offline
Mark Fox
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 851
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidG1966 View Post
This is exactly why I am seeking opinions on what to do. My advise from PSA and StarPaxMan was to just sell them. How can I do that?
You can't. I implore you to talk to a lawyer. Any advice you receive on here will be in the same vein I believe.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:56 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

At this point not much you can or should do about what you already sold, in my opinion.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:56 PM
DavidG1966 DavidG1966 is offline
David G0ld
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 53
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmondobueno View Post
Oh yeah, you may want to talk directly with the investigators...
That is a GREAT idea! I know way more about this then I want to. I would cooperate FULLY with them and share everything I know! What did you do? Just call you local office and keep digging to find the right person? This is the best piece of advice I have been given to date. Thank you!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-23-2013, 12:59 PM
Sean1125 Sean1125 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,566
Default

(edited to add more and formatting)
So does this mean there is no "PSA guarantee"?

The PSA Financial Guarantee of Grade & Authenticity
The PSA Financial Guarantee of Grade & Authenticity is fundamental to PSA's concept of third-party grading. The cash-back policy ensures the accuracy of the grade assigned to any PSA-graded card as long as the card remains in its tamper-evident holder. PSA guarantees that all cards submitted to it shall be graded in accordance with PSA grading standards and under the procedures of PSA. If PSA, in fact, concludes that the card in question no longer merits the PSA grade assigned or fails our authenticity standards, PSA will either: Buy the card from the submitter at the current market value if the card can no longer receive a numerical grade under PSA's standards or, Refund the difference in value between the original PSA grade and the current PSA grade if the grade is lowered. In this case, the card will also be returned to the customer along with the refund for the difference in value. The current market value is determined by PSA, based in part on SMR values and/or recent prices realized from the marketplace. PSA has sole discretion in regards to the buyback price. Click here for an important note about the PSA Holder.

Also on another section of the site (http://www.psacard.com/services/PSA_holder.chtml)
These are just some basic reminders and suggestions of how to avoid buying items that are purported to be PSA-authenticated or graded but, in reality, are not. A few precautionary measures can help protect you from buying fraudulent items and enhance your overall collecting experience. If you have any suspicions whatsoever, take a day or two to consider your decision and consult with colleagues or trusted advisors.

I have to agree with earlier posts, a lawyer is pretty necessary right now and no one can give you definitive answers except them.

Last edited by Sean1125; 01-23-2013 at 01:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:03 PM
drmondobueno's Avatar
drmondobueno drmondobueno is offline
Keith
ke.ith tem.ple
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Eastern sierras, Calif
Posts: 885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidG1966 View Post
This is exactly why I am seeking opinions on what to do. My advise from PSA and StarPaxMan was to just sell them. How can I do that?
David, you need to talk with a lawyer.

I would also suggest you stop commenting in a public forum any further until you SPEAK WITH A LAWYER.

I wish you the best. I really do.
Keih
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:06 PM
DavidG1966 DavidG1966 is offline
David G0ld
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 53
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmondobueno View Post
David, you need to talk with a lawyer.

I would also suggest you stop commenting in a public forum any further until you SPEAK WITH A LAWYER.

I wish you the best. I really do.
Keih
It never dawned on me that the victim could be in trouble.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:10 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

Well you do need to be careful because (1) you are potentially selling items you know may be fake, even if you aren't the one who faked them and (2) you are considering divulging information you agreed to keep confidential.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:12 PM
drmondobueno's Avatar
drmondobueno drmondobueno is offline
Keith
ke.ith tem.ple
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Eastern sierras, Calif
Posts: 885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidG1966 View Post
That is a GREAT idea! I know way more about this then I want to. I would cooperate FULLY with them and share everything I know! What did you do? Just call you local office and keep digging to find the right person? This is the best piece of advice I have been given to date. Thank you!
David, talk to that lawyer before you make any call. I did not have to do anything because, in my case, the Inspector General showed up with badges and shut us down, that is how I found out. So I had company attorneys all over hell and ended up with my own to protect myself. He worked for me and nobody else.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:19 PM
birdman42's Avatar
birdman42 birdman42 is offline
Bill T.
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Merlin, west of Bawtymore
Posts: 392
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidG1966 View Post
...My advise from PSA...was to just sell them...
Holy crap.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:21 PM
whitehse's Avatar
whitehse whitehse is offline
And.rew Whi.te
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Wisconsin/Northern Illinois
Posts: 1,383
Default

Never get cheated!!









Posted by And.rew Whi.te
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:21 PM
tbob's Avatar
tbob tbob is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,778
Default

Tread extremely carefully here. If you sell the packs you are going to bump in to the possibility of being charged with knowingly selling fraudulent items or selling them "knowing" or "SHOULD HAVE KNOWN" they were fraudulent based on the time frame.
Good advice not to discuss anything more on this Board. If it were me, I would delete all my posts on this board and not sell any of the packs.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:27 PM
travrosty travrosty is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,223
Default

did the authentication company blow it again? well, that's just greaaaat, as elaine benis would say.

thats what people get for trusting them. they should be liable for all of this. if you have fake packs that a company certified, then go back to them for restitution.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-23-2013, 01:57 PM
egbeachley's Avatar
egbeachley egbeachley is offline
Eric Bea.chley
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 920
Default

First response is probably the best response.

It would seem to me that the vast majority of the packs, possibly all of them, would be fake. And I expect that eventually the pack creator will tell investigators just that or may know exactly which ones. At that point they can be sent back to the grading company for the guaranty. So hold on to the packs for now.

I also think this thread should be deleted....or redacted

Last edited by egbeachley; 01-23-2013 at 02:03 PM. Reason: to add last 2 words
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-23-2013, 02:16 PM
Griffins Griffins is offline
Anthøny N. ex
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,282
Default

From what I understand this investigation and alleged fraud centered almost solely around '70's cello packs, many of them showing star cards on the top and often bottom.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-23-2013, 02:29 PM
atx840's Avatar
atx840 atx840 is offline
Chris Browne
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calgary
Posts: 3,735
Default

Shhhh.

__________________
T206 gallery
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-23-2013, 02:40 PM
drmondobueno's Avatar
drmondobueno drmondobueno is offline
Keith
ke.ith tem.ple
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Eastern sierras, Calif
Posts: 885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atx840 View Post
Shhhh.

What up, Jose?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-23-2013, 03:00 PM
lsutigers1973 lsutigers1973 is offline
banned
Bi.ll Hol.ler
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 126
Default really?

Quote:
8) PSA's pack authenticator gave me the list of packs the person had authenticated. I do not know nor did the authenticator tell me which are real or fake.
I doubt very seriously that anyone aware of the situation with possession of a "list" would freely hand it over to anyone without a subpoena.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-23-2013, 03:11 PM
36GoudeyMan 36GoudeyMan is offline
Jeff Sherman
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sarasota, FL
Posts: 381
Default OK, I AM a lawyer

.. and I have to tell you to shut the hell up NOW. Stop talking about what you know; you are jeopardizing the investigation and running into obstruction of justice issues (not liability yet, just issues), plus you are in possession of, and are talking about, confidential investigatory information. SHUT UP.

DO NOT SELL ANY PACKS if you have the slightest bit of concern over their authenticity. NONE. Knowing what you have stated publicly that you already know about the possible authenticity issues surrounding some/all of your packs, selling them now -- without the kind of disclosure that would be needed to insulate you from civil AND criminal liability -- would be ridiculous and personally dangerous, from a legal point of view.

Perhaps you have a civil claim, at this point, I'm not certain. But I can say this categorically: SHUT UP AND DO NOT SELL ANY PACKS. Do not discuss what you know with anyone but the investigators -- not with PSA, not with Steve Hart, NO ONE but the investigators. I join wholeheartedly in the chorus of posters telling you to get your OWN lawyer,not someone you might share with another victim, but your OWN. White collar criminal lawyers abound; you should have no trouble getting a referral from your local Bar or Bar Association if you or a friend does not know one. But get one, sooner rather than later, and talk to him/her immediately.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-23-2013, 04:04 PM
T206DK's Avatar
T206DK T206DK is offline
Dave
Da.ve Kra.bal
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Somewheresburgtownsville, Ohio
Posts: 491
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmondobueno View Post
what up, jose?
lol !!
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-23-2013, 04:55 PM
WhenItWasAHobby's Avatar
WhenItWasAHobby WhenItWasAHobby is offline
Dan Marke1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Houston-area
Posts: 650
Default

So PSA is allegedly going after someone whom they believed submitted fraudulent items for PSA to grade and authenticate? Is this the first time they believe that's been done (doctored cards included)?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-23-2013, 06:40 PM
pepis pepis is offline
Jose Vazquez
Jo.se Vazq.uez - Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: So Cal
Posts: 233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffins View Post
From what I understand this investigation and alleged fraud centered almost solely around '70's cello packs, many of them showing star cards on the top and often bottom.
Actually Anthony,
it involves some 60s and 80s also all with stars on top and all with clear
evidence of being tampered with, in a way that should never get by an
expert, some of those stars should never be on top like for example
1979 Thrman Munson his card ony came in the bottom section and a
true expert should know that
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-23-2013, 07:02 PM
Runscott's Avatar
Runscott Runscott is offline
Belltown Vintage
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,651
Default

.....nevuh mind
__________________
$co++ Forre$+

Last edited by Runscott; 01-23-2013 at 07:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-23-2013, 08:56 PM
queencitysportscards's Avatar
queencitysportscards queencitysportscards is offline
Hank
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 177
Default My Comments

...
__________________
Hank from Cincinnati

Last edited by queencitysportscards; 01-24-2013 at 09:30 PM. Reason: Wrong Thread
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-23-2013, 09:57 PM
CW's Avatar
CW CW is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,478
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepis View Post
Actually Anthony,
it involves some 60s and 80s also all with stars on top and all with clear
evidence of being tampered with, in a way that should never get by an
expert, some of those stars should never be on top like for example
1979 Thrman Munson his card ony came in the bottom section and a
true expert should know that
Um, is this the accused fake pack creator making these statements in this thread? Of so.... um, wow.

Last edited by CW; 01-25-2013 at 11:06 PM. Reason: €hû¢k Wölƒƒ
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-24-2013, 04:12 AM
CharleyBrown CharleyBrown is offline
Shaun Fyffe
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Rockland County, NY
Posts: 757
Default

Wow,

If I remember some of the threads on the PSA boards, this guy was flaunting packs with Mantle on top, etc. - he had a killer collection, or so he made everyone believe he did...
__________________
-Shaun

Currently seeking Jackie Robinson cards
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-24-2013, 05:44 AM
WhenItWasAHobby's Avatar
WhenItWasAHobby WhenItWasAHobby is offline
Dan Marke1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Houston-area
Posts: 650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CW View Post
Um, is this the accused fake pack creator making these statements in this thread? Of so.... um, wow.
There seems to be a lot more to this story. Tell us more pepis.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-24-2013, 06:21 AM
sdkammeyer's Avatar
sdkammeyer sdkammeyer is offline
Steve K@mmɘyɘr
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 618
Default

Pepis, it seems you are in a world of hurt. Do you care to defend yourself??
OP you have a list of questionable items and have not yet been named in a suit?? Put that info in the air. Why wait until it is legally sealed info??
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-24-2013, 06:30 AM
frankbmd's Avatar
frankbmd frankbmd is offline
Fr@nk Burke++
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Between the 1st tee and the 19th hole
Posts: 7,231
Default Hmmm......

if only the OP was named coek, we could render a decision.
__________________
FRANK:BUR:KETT - RAUCOUS SPORTS CARD FORUM MEMBER AND MONSTER NUMBER FATHER.

GOOD FOR THE HOBBY AND THE FORUM WITH A VAULT IN AN UNDISCLOSED LOCATION FILLED WITH NON-FUNGIBLES


274/1000 Monster Number


Nearly*1000* successful B/S/T transactions completed in 2012-24.
Over 680 sales with satisfied Board members served.
If you want fries with your order, just speak up.
Thank you all.



Now nearly PQ.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-24-2013, 08:58 AM
Clutch-Hitter's Avatar
Clutch-Hitter Clutch-Hitter is offline
G.r.eg M@r.t.i.n
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The South
Posts: 769
Default

Is Pepis the victim here? This thread started one way, with the OP talking about a "list" being released by PSA, which sounded more than strange to me, and PSA casually saying sell, sell, sell, as if it was not a touchy subject for them, yet conveyed to us as if it were. It then went to Pepis, who speaking less paranoid than the OP, communicated directly, matter of factly....And all along the OP asks about whether or not the FBI would go after victims, etc. Was Pepis trying to tell us something before this came up?: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=161891

I guess we'll never know.

Last edited by Clutch-Hitter; 01-24-2013 at 09:03 AM. Reason: Gramattication Correctification
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-24-2013, 10:47 AM
slidekellyslide's Avatar
slidekellyslide slidekellyslide is offline
Dan Bretta
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 6,122
Default

What a strange thread. Did someone at PSA really tell someone to just sell items in their holders that are possibly fake? I find that incredulous.
__________________
Looking for Nebraska Indians memorabilia, photos and postcards
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-24-2013, 11:16 AM
thedutymon thedutymon is offline
member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 42
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slidekellyslide View Post
What a strange thread. Did someone at PSA really tell someone to just sell items in their holders that are possibly fake? I find that incredulous.
Its more than incredulous....I call B.S.

Neil
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 01-24-2013, 11:24 AM
HasselhoffsCheeseburger's Avatar
HasselhoffsCheeseburger HasselhoffsCheeseburger is offline
Arthur R!ch
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Netflix
Posts: 592
Default

The original poster seemed too scared and naive to make something up.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 01-24-2013, 11:35 AM
pepis pepis is offline
Jose Vazquez
Jo.se Vazq.uez - Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: So Cal
Posts: 233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdkammeyer View Post
Pepis, it seems you are in a world of hurt. Do you care to defend yourself??
OP you have a list of questionable items and have not yet been named in a suit?? Put that info in the air. Why wait until it is legally sealed info??
Absolutely no hurt!
when i started my only goal was to show the enormous amount of fraud
that exist in vintage packs and pack grading and if i have to sacrifice
the posibility of any jail time it will be well worth it as the saying goes
the TRUTH shall set me free.

Charley Brown,
the start of this venture started on 12/04/10 after i saw the cu thread in the pic
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2012-09-28 at 2.14.38 PM.jpg (11.6 KB, 1026 views)

Last edited by pepis; 02-20-2013 at 03:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 01-24-2013, 11:35 AM
steve B steve B is offline
Steve Birmingham
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: eastern Mass.
Posts: 8,083
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 36GoudeyMan View Post
.. and I have to tell you to shut the hell up NOW. Stop talking about what you know; you are jeopardizing the investigation and running into obstruction of justice issues (not liability yet, just issues), plus you are in possession of, and are talking about, confidential investigatory information. SHUT UP.

DO NOT SELL ANY PACKS if you have the slightest bit of concern over their authenticity. NONE. Knowing what you have stated publicly that you already know about the possible authenticity issues surrounding some/all of your packs, selling them now -- without the kind of disclosure that would be needed to insulate you from civil AND criminal liability -- would be ridiculous and personally dangerous, from a legal point of view.

Perhaps you have a civil claim, at this point, I'm not certain. But I can say this categorically: SHUT UP AND DO NOT SELL ANY PACKS. Do not discuss what you know with anyone but the investigators -- not with PSA, not with Steve Hart, NO ONE but the investigators. I join wholeheartedly in the chorus of posters telling you to get your OWN lawyer,not someone you might share with another victim, but your OWN. White collar criminal lawyers abound; you should have no trouble getting a referral from your local Bar or Bar Association if you or a friend does not know one. But get one, sooner rather than later, and talk to him/her immediately.
While my instinct and curiosity say different, the above is good advice from an actual lawyer. And while any free advice is worth what you paid I think in this case it's going to be well worth heeding.

The only thing I'd add would be to keep a copy of the list, and save off or print a copy of any communication you get about it.
The Emails etc because documenting stuff probably can't hurt, (Unless it's about stuff you've done) and the list because it may get buried, and there may eventually be an acceptable time to share it. Your lawyer will know that.


Steve B
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:38 PM
dstudeba's Avatar
dstudeba dstudeba is offline
Dan Studebaker
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 640
Default

.

Last edited by dstudeba; 01-24-2013 at 01:30 PM. Reason: annonymity
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:41 PM
cobblove cobblove is offline
De.rek Pul.atie
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 267
Default

This guy seems like a crazy person trying to use this as an attack on steve. Steve does a great job at what he does. And I know everyone agrees who has ever meet to done any kind of deal with steve knows he's 100% honest and fair in his life. Not even a question about his character. Steve is human and Jose has shown that by having the packs authenticated and oked by Steve. Brought to light anything to do with a bogus pack steve will do whatever to make things right. If a few packs got by steve it shouldnt be seen as if Steve did it on purpose.Which is what Jose is saying? Crazy fing guy. Steve is giving an opinion that we all ask for because he shares all his knowledge that he has about this area of the hobby. Everyone makes mistakes and it seems easy to understand a few packs getting by the system. But what I dont get is the individual who started this mess by sending in what he knew were basement made packs just to show that people can make mistakes? And to say that steve did it on purpose is insaine and your character needs to be looked at.

Last edited by cobblove; 01-24-2013 at 12:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:45 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is offline
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,196
Default

To all concerned, I am confident authorities are well aware of this thread. I don't think it's jeopardizing anything except a few people's freedom, which is not my main concern, or I would have heard about it.
Fact is certainly stranger than fiction. Kind of a crazy thread. And lastly, please remember our board rules concerning anonymity when posting. I will be putting names in posts, per the rules, when warranted. As the new CU rules say, no more warnings . Edited to add that I agree concerning Steve Hart. From everything I have heard and read he does a great job. If he got fooled then that just makes him human. It seems he is the best in the hobby at what he does, by a good distance.
__________________
Leon Luckey

Last edited by Leon; 01-24-2013 at 12:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:02 PM
Peter_Spaeth's Avatar
Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
Peter Spaeth
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,264
Default

We clearly don't have all the facts, but if my intent was to show PSA couldn't spot bad packs, I could have made some, sent them in, and then destroyed them or kept them on my shelf. It seems some of these have made their way onto the market, so how did that happen if the intent was pure? Kevin Saucier used to send some of his creations to grading services, as I recall, but didn't then sell them.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:41 PM
Cerberus Cerberus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 153
Default I just got a call from................

................Manti Te'o's fake girlfriend. She's really enjoying this thread.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:59 PM
pepis pepis is offline
Jose Vazquez
Jo.se Vazq.uez - Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: So Cal
Posts: 233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepis View Post
Actually Anthony,
it involves some 60s and 80s also all with stars on top and all with clear
evidence of being tampered with, in a way that should never get by an
expert, some of those stars should never be on top like for example
1979 Thrman Munson his card ony came in the bottom section and a
true expert should know that
here is the example.

Last edited by pepis; 02-21-2013 at 01:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 01-24-2013, 02:24 PM
Matthew H Matthew H is offline
Matt Hall
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,817
Default

I heard there's some greedy people in this hobby... Is that true?
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Manti Te'o Investigation EvilKing00 Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 11 01-18-2013 09:49 AM
A new low in fraud Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 13 02-04-2009 07:34 PM
Dave Grob confirms FBI investigation? Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 6 08-25-2007 09:17 PM
a Wisconsin ballgame in 1912? : The Process of a Photographic Investigation Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 1 05-01-2007 09:20 PM
What a deal! Fake Ramly and fake signature to boot! Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 1 01-13-2005 11:16 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:49 AM.


ebay GSB