Colgans Proof Cards

[DixieBaseball]

Was wondering if anyone is aware of any different Minor Leaguers in the "Colgans Proof" Set other than these teams : Buffalo, Rochester (Eastern League), Milwaukee, Louisville (American Assoc), and Memphis (South Assoc)? Reason I ask, is since we don't know for sure who the issuer is for the Square Colgan look alike cards, perhaps the Minor Leaguers would give us a clue!? I find it odd that there is only one Southern Team in the set and a few Memphis players (Daubert, Baerworld. & Babb) but no other Southern Association teams!? Are there Minor Leagues absent that would seem should be included? Does this Square set overlap the Colgans set ? If so, where are the other Minor league teams from the SA, EL, and AA ??

Just really curious about any theories out there, and obviously no advertising has been found yet, but I have to wonder if this was some local knock off / competitor on a smaller scale who tried to "copy" the Colgans to some degree.

Any thoughts, input would be welcome. A mystery set for sure... Could Autosales (New York) be who put out the Square Colgan Proofs?!?

[Leon]

I am not persuaded, at this point, to call them Colgans proofs. I think, maybe, more like an unfinished product. Or, even a finished one but not sure why they are considered proofs? As for the player and league selection, sorry, never really studied it so can't help. I know we have some Colgan's collectors on the forum and maybe they will know more.

[CobbSpikedMe]

I don't know much about these either, but have never considered them Colgan's Chip proofs. REA currently has a lot of 76 of them with 25 uncatalogued players.

No new minor leaguers other than the teams you mentioned though.

[Tom S.]

Here's a possible explanation that I've got about them which ties into your Autosales theory...

One of the products that Autosales Gum put out was Dentyne. I found a picture of some wrappers that are for sale on eBay which the seller dates to the 1920's.



Those "Colgans proofs" sure look like they would fit inside those wrappers, don't they?

Since they have no advertising on the back, it's hard to know if they were actually inserted into any sort of packaging, or if they were merely proofs of some sort based solely on their limited overall numbers.

It would be nice to be able to find any type of period Dentyne advertising to see if they mention these at all.

[Leon]

Those are neat. Hopefully we will find the missing link...

Originally Posted by Tom S.

Here's a possible explanation that I've got about them which ties into your Autosales theory...

One of the products that Autosales Gum put out was Dentyne. I found a picture of some wrappers that are for sale on eBay which the seller dates to the 1920's.



Those "Colgans proofs" sure look like they would fit inside those wrappers, don't they?

Since they have no advertising on the back, it's hard to know if they were actually inserted into any sort of packaging, or if they were merely proofs of some sort based solely on their limited overall numbers.

It would be nice to be able to find any type of period Dentyne advertising to see if they mention these at all.

[brianp-beme]

Trying to put some pieces together. It seems possible for Autosales Gum to have distributed these Colgan's Chips related ('proof') cards. First off the tin on the left that Jerome posted indicates that Autosales Gum was the successor to the Colgan's Co, and checking on the internet it appears that they purchased Colgan's at the tail end of 1914.

It would be interesting to know what size those Dentyne wrappers that Tom shared are, especially the dimensions between the 'crease lines' of the wrapper. The 'Square Proof' cards are approximately 1-3/8" x 1-3/4". Looking at the scan, it appears that the dimensions would be proportionally correct for the cards to have been packaged in these wrappers, if of course the sizing matched up.

If Autosales were the distributor of these 'Square Colgan's' cards, the earliest date of distribution would have to be 1915. With this new subject bonanza seen in the REA auction, perhaps it would be interesting to research all the known subjects of this set and see if they were perhaps chosen for inclusion because they were either still active, or if not, perhaps the inactive players were still popular among fans. Without checking, it does appear that the team designations are the same as seen in the regular Colgan's issue, which might make a later (1915 or later) issue date less likely.

Perhaps something for me to do in my spare tire time. If nothing else, the checklist for this set definitely needs a good old-fashioned update.

Brian

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by CobbSpikedMe

I don't know much about these either, but have never considered them Colgan's Chip proofs. REA currently has a lot of 76 of them with 25 uncatalogued players.

No new minor leaguers other than the teams you mentioned though.

I was just wondering if anyone won the REA lot. I would be very interested in the Bugs Raymond.

Thanks!

Chris

[h2oya311]

I certainly have a hard time imagining that these were issued in 1909 as they are often described. Calling the Hooper his "rookie" card is a travesty.

What's interesting (at least to me) is that the 1909-11 E254 Colgan's Chips discs had two variations of Hooper. One version has him listed as playing for Boston Nationals ("error") and another with him on the Boston Am. League ("corrected"). Only the correct version appeared in the two REA lots that included a "square proof" Hooper.

I suppose this at least somewhat supports the theory that they "proofs" were issued after the chips.

[spec]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

I certainly have a hard time imagining that these were issued in 1909 as they are often described. Calling the Hooper his "rookie" card is a travesty.

What's interesting (at least to me) is that the 1909-11 E254 Colgan's Chips discs had two variations of Hooper. One version has him listed as playing for Boston Nationals ("error") and another with him on the Boston Am. League ("corrected"). Only the correct version appeared in the two REA lots that included a "square proof" Hooper.

I suppose this at least somewhat supports the theory that they "proofs" were issued after the chips.

Since my John Knight lists his team as Washington, the "square proofs" cannot be a 1909 issue. He only played one year with the Senators, so 1912 is the earliest and most likely year of issue.