Has anybody done this to guard against buying forgeries?

[the 'stache]

As I begin to buy pre-war and vintage baseball cards, I'm still concerned going forward about the possibility that the cards I buy could be fakes. We know that PSA and SGC slabs can be cracked, and I've even seen discussions about PSA slabs being duplicated by thiefs. With the advances in printer technology, it's easy for these criminals to take advantage of collectors who are new in these eras of cards. And until these TPGs make it so their slabs cannot be cracked, there always exists a possibility that we're being ripped off.

Now, I know I can ask for opinions from members here, and I will take full advantage of that. If I get a card, and have any concerns about it, I will scan it, and rely on the expertise on you fine folks. But I don't want to pester you guys every time I make a buy.

So, here's what I've been thinking about doing. If I'm looking to buy a Walter Johnson T206 portrait (purely as an example), would it not be prudent for me to buy a T206 common, and keep it in my collection? I mean some common that nobody in their right mind would consider forging. Something I could compare to which ever card I buy? Under magnification, I would think that a faked card would be easily discernible, no?

Do any of you guys do this? I'd think it would be worth it for me to get a common T206, as the paper, the inking technology would be uniform from one card to another, regardless of value.

If I want to buy a nice 1952 Topps, I could add a common to my collection, and use that as my control, so to speak.

Comments??

[t206blogcom]

Bill - The more you know before you start buying, the better off you'll be.

Yes, it could be a good idea to buy some inexpensive cards to become more familiar with them and learn as much as you can via Net54 and other sources before purchasing higher end or more expensive cards in a particular set.

There's a lot of hobby knowledge on this board, through the links, search and members. Getting dubed on an item will happen to most collectors at least once. Thankfully for you, T206s and 52 Topps are two of the most popular and most collected sets as you know, so there's a massive amount of information about them.

There are plenty of T206 reprints out there and they're very easy to spot, so I don't think you'll have any issues with that. Sometimes the ones that are slightly trimmed can be difficult to spot, especially since TPGs have been known to still grade/slab them.

Feel free to reach out to me and others if you have T206 questions. I'm not the most knowledgeable t206 collector by far, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[Bpm0014]

Bill, you're thinking too much and over-analyzing it. Haha. After you buy your first couple, the reprints are pretty easy to recognize. but always feel free to ask for advice. Most people would be happy to help!

[the 'stache]

Thanks, guys. I've been doing as much reading as I can, and I'll definitely be asking for help when I buy my first few at least. The thing that concerns me is that I'll likely be jumping around all over the map, so I won't be developing any acumen for one specific year. I'm planning on doing something like this to start:

1953 Bowman Color Stan Musial
1941 Play Ball Joe DiMaggio
1956 Topps Ted Williams
1933 Goudey Lou Gehrig
1909-11 T206 Walter Johnson portrait
1955 Topps Roberto Clemente
1909-11 T206 Ty Cobb off shoulder

There will be some sets I touch on more than others ('53 Bowman, the T206 cards), and some of these will take me a while to save for as I limit myself to $5-600 a month on my hobby until my back (hopefully) gets fixed, and I can get back to work. I might just buy one a month, or every other month, as I still buy modern, too.

I've started identifying ways to buy and hold some Bowman Chrome prospect auto cards, and sell them for a profit within a few months. Anything I can gain from doing that I can roll over into my vintage buying.

[vintagecpa]

Bill, this is a great question. I personally think the PSA slab problem is far bigger than anyone is admitting to at this point. I believe it is a far bigger problem in the post-war PSA population because of the abundance of cards. The thread involving "sportscollector" is just the tip of the iceberg.

I wouldn't dream of buying a large-dollar slabbed card unless I saw a previous picture of the same card in a past auction or on VCP. I have seen too many examples where two different cards had the same certification number. Just my opinion on the subject. Good luck.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Something I could compare to which ever card I buy? Under magnification, I would think that a faked card would be easily discernible, no?
Comments??

In a perfect world, Yes.

A fake t206 under magnification should be easily discernible. Unfortunately a large majority of cards today are bought online. If you intend on buying in person this would be a fine idea though.

[the 'stache]

Jake, any card I buy online will have a return policy. If it does not, I won't even entertain buying it.

Once I have the card in hand, I'll promptly inspect it. If it doesn't pass the smell test, I'll post scans front and back sides, and ask for feedback from you guys.

I have a jeweler's loupe, black light, a technical drawing ruler, and I'll be subscribing to VCP.

Mike, I, too, have serious concerns about this being more problematic than some are aware of.

Can I assume that cards sold by reputable auction houses like REA would examine cards before being sold? I'd expect they have expertise in these cards, and would be able to spot a faked card.

[Sean]

Yes, any AH like REA would not be sell a fake card, but they may not catch one that has been trimmed, though REA would certainly attempt to do so.

I'm curious: while that is a great want list that you posted, why aren't you looking for a Babe Ruth?

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Sean

Yes, any AH like REA would not be sell a fake card, but they may not catch one that has been trimmed, though REA would certainly attempt to do so.

I'm curious: while that is a great want list that you posted, why aren't you looking for a Babe Ruth?

I will. There are a lot of Hall of Famers I want. That short list I posted was just a beginning. Ruth, Christy Matthewson, Jackie Robinson, Cy Young, Mickey Mantle, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Sandy Koufax, Eddie Mathews and Warren Spahn...I could go on and on. Those were just a few of the ones I'd look to start off with.

I'd like a Goudey Babe Ruth, too. I just know some of these cards will be very expensive, and will take a few months to save up for.

[brob28]

Hi Bill,

I was advised by a few experienced pre-war collectors to buy a few common cards from reputable sources and (for lack of a better description) get cozy with the card. I am relatively new to the pre-war side (T206 focus) and can say within about 6 months I feel a whole lot more comfortable identifying good vs. bad cards. All the "equipment" you mentioned is very helpful and a must IMO. Given the fraud in the hobby I think a bit of caution/paranoia is a good thing. This board is an invaluable resource for voicing concerns and getting opinions. I like you are much more knowledgeble with pre-war cards but still feel the need ask a question from time to time. If you recall I recently asked about a '61 Yaz in a PSA holder that I just needed others to look at. Bottom line is you just can't trust the TPG holder anymore (if you ever could).

Edit: by trust I'm referring to human error and the counterfeit holders out there not commenting on ethics of TPG.

[travrosty]

buy them from an experienced dealer/fellow collector and your chances of getting burned go down to almost zero. forget psa.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by travrosty

buy them from an experienced dealer/fellow collector and your chances of getting burned go down to almost zero. forget psa.

+1

[auggiedoggy]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

As I begin to buy pre-war and vintage baseball cards, I'm still concerned going forward about the possibility that the cards I buy could be fakes. We know that PSA and SGC slabs can be cracked, and I've even seen discussions about PSA slabs being duplicated by thiefs. With the advances in printer technology, it's easy for these criminals to take advantage of collectors who are new in these eras of cards. And until these TPGs make it so their slabs cannot be cracked, there always exists a possibility that we're being ripped off.

Now, I know I can ask for opinions from members here, and I will take full advantage of that. If I get a card, and have any concerns about it, I will scan it, and rely on the expertise on you fine folks. But I don't want to pester you guys every time I make a buy.

So, here's what I've been thinking about doing. If I'm looking to buy a Walter Johnson T206 portrait (purely as an example), would it not be prudent for me to buy a T206 common, and keep it in my collection? I mean some common that nobody in their right mind would consider forging. Something I could compare to which ever card I buy? Under magnification, I would think that a faked card would be easily discernible, no?

Do any of you guys do this? I'd think it would be worth it for me to get a common T206, as the paper, the inking technology would be uniform from one card to another, regardless of value.

If I want to buy a nice 1952 Topps, I could add a common to my collection, and use that as my control, so to speak.

Comments??

A good plan. Now if we could just get the TPG companies to implement exploding card holders we'd be off to the races!!! Now THAT'S what I would call "Tamper-evident"!

[Paul S]

Can you ever see the PSA registry people crossing over to BVG?

[baker85]

if it is slabbed. buy it. stop being so paranoid. it is what the holder says it is.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by baker85

if it is slabbed. buy it. stop being so paranoid. it is what the holder says it is.

I hope this was a sarcastic remark?

[baker85]

if your that paranoid, you should not collect sports memorabilia. my remark was not sarcastic. it was literal. if its slabbed, thats good enough for me. im not dumping hundreds of dollars on a card, so who is going to fake a psa 2 or 3 anyway.