NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-23-2015, 07:12 PM
Ribbens Ribbens is offline
David Ribbens
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 415
Default Polar Bear Tobacco

Need some help identifying this Polar Bear tobacco "pack". I believe it contains a T206 tobacco card, thanks for any advice here.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 00N0N_aWAgat9ZAwk_600x450 (1).jpg (25.1 KB, 968 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-23-2015, 07:33 PM
sreader3 sreader3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,222
Default

First of all, look at the tax stamp and tell us the date.

If it is a 1909 stamp, you have a good chance.

If it is a 1910 stamp, you have a small chance.

Else, you have very little chance.

Edited to add: Paging Jon Canfield.

Last edited by sreader3; 12-23-2015 at 07:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-23-2015, 07:55 PM
rdwyer's Avatar
rdwyer rdwyer is offline
Rich.ard Dwy.er
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,439
Default

Has the right factory number, district and state. So the date of the tax stamp should be 1909 or 1910 as mentioned above.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-23-2015, 08:05 PM
iwantitiwinit's Avatar
iwantitiwinit iwantitiwinit is offline
rob.ert int.rieri
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 2,445
Default

Open it up and let's see!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-23-2015, 08:09 PM
sreader3 sreader3 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,222
Default

I should have also paged Richard Dwyer.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-24-2015, 09:33 AM
gemmint77's Avatar
gemmint77 gemmint77 is offline
James
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 248
Default Polar Bear

Cool pack! Nice pick up. Hope to see you open it.
__________________
Looking for T206 rare backs. Clemente PSA 7

https://sportscardalbum.com/u/gemmin...seball#!page=2
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-24-2015, 09:51 AM
rdwyer's Avatar
rdwyer rdwyer is offline
Rich.ard Dwy.er
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,439
Default

If everything matches, I would open because it might contain 5 cards!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-24-2015, 03:46 PM
bbcard1 bbcard1 is offline
T0dd M@rcum
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 3,318
Default

Odds of staining due to the loose leaf tobacco would be very high...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-24-2015, 04:36 PM
rdwyer's Avatar
rdwyer rdwyer is offline
Rich.ard Dwy.er
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,439
Default

Quote:
Odds of staining due to the loose leaf tobacco would be very high...
I'll take a stained Cobb any way I can get it.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-26-2015, 11:08 AM
whelenfan whelenfan is offline
michael
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: new jersey
Posts: 167
Default

open it already!!!
__________________
vg-g-f-p t205 set - 54/208
ml subset 4/12
variations - 3
hof'ers - 4
short prints - 3
different backs - 13
cards over $30 - 4
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-26-2015, 11:35 PM
Cerberus Cerberus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 153
Default Over-Stamp?

Please post a clear, close-up scan/photo of the blue tax stamp. Many of these Polar Bear pouches with the proper 1910 tax stamp, unfortunately have an over-stamp, often in red type, dating the manufacture of the pouch/pack to 1914. Mine does--hope yours doesn't!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-27-2015, 08:59 AM
Ribbens Ribbens is offline
David Ribbens
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 415
Default

I will check the red date on the Polar Tobacco package and report that year, here are a couple of more pictures. In addition I had valuable input from Jon Canfield from T206.com as well on this. Curious what card is in the tobacco pouch from 1914 ?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1909Polaritem1:3.jpg (11.1 KB, 660 views)
File Type: jpg PolarTobaccoitem2:3.jpg (15.3 KB, 652 views)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-27-2015, 10:55 AM
1880nonsports's Avatar
1880nonsports 1880nonsports is offline
Hen.ry Mos.es
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,448
Default actually

I've personally examined over 10 unopened polar packages and viewed as many online. I owned two - since sold. In almost every case the overprint was extant and readable. Most have had a mid 1920's date, one had a 1914 date, and two had a 1950's stamping. Interestingly ALL had 1909/1910 stamps. I was first made aware of the pack's existence in a 1994 (?) SCD story.........
Can't recall where I first heard/saw reference to FIVE cards in a package - think it's urban legend :-)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-27-2015, 05:38 PM
canjond's Avatar
canjond canjond is offline
Jon Canfield
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,570
Default

I've been in touch with the OP, and Henry - you're spot on. In fact, this is my email correspondence with the OP from early this morning (in case anyone else has interest or comes across one of these PBs)...

"...to answer your questions, the pack - if correct - could have the possibility of a baseball card, and may have contained 2-5 (there were rumors of 5 once being found in a pack although there's no evidence to substantiate that). That said, I've never seen an unopened period-correct pack. Many people see the 1909 tax stamp and assume it's from 1909, but that's not the case. Also, sometimes you will see a bit of paper loss on the top of a tax stamp - that's a clear indication that someone was trying to erase the date of the overprint to pass the pack off as older.

About 30 years ago, there was a find of about 20 unopened Polar Bear packs from 1920-1925. The majority of the unopened packs in existence are from that find. That's not to say yours isn't correct - I just need to see the top to help you more."
__________________
For information on baseball-related cigarette and tobacco packs, visit www.baseballandtobacco.com.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-27-2015, 08:46 PM
rdwyer's Avatar
rdwyer rdwyer is offline
Rich.ard Dwy.er
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,439
Default

Agree with Jon. Overprinting is most important. If it's 1910 or 1911, open that baby up!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-28-2015, 08:32 AM
Joshchisox08's Avatar
Joshchisox08 Joshchisox08 is offline
J0$H B^ck!ey
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: C0nn3cticu+
Posts: 1,943
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribbens View Post
Need some help identifying this Polar Bear tobacco "pack". I believe it contains a T206 tobacco card, thanks for any advice here.
WOW That's amazing if you do decide to open it make a video and send us the link!!!
__________________
429/524 Off of the monster 81%
49/76 HOF's 64%
18/20 Overlooked by Cooperstown 90%
22/39 Unique Backs 56%
80/86 Minors 93%
25/48 Southern Leaguers 52%
6/10 Billy Sullivan back run 60%

237PSA / 94 SGC / 98 RAW

Excel spreadsheets only $5
T3, T201, T202, T204, T205, T206, T207, 1914 CJ, 1915 CJ, Topps 1952-1979, and more!!!!

Checklists sold (20)

T205 8/208 3.8%
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-28-2015, 11:05 AM
xplainer's Avatar
xplainer xplainer is offline
Jimmy Knowle$
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: North Florida
Posts: 1,575
Default

Yeah Josh,
Sure beats my 79 wax pack production.

Curious to see what happens here.

Last edited by xplainer; 12-28-2015 at 11:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-28-2015, 02:32 PM
pawpawdiv9's Avatar
pawpawdiv9 pawpawdiv9 is offline
Chr!$ M!ll!c@n
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: GA
Posts: 2,707
Default

Rip it open.
Maybe this Guy on Ebay will do the same with his Polar Bear pack:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/POLAR-BEAR-T...kAAOSwd0BVxOIh
Its stated as 1909, but i had a hard time zooming in, to me almost looks like 1911...IDK??
Just trying to get a idea of what you guys are talking about, stuff like this is interesting.
__________________
LOOKING TO BUY:
1916-20 UNC Big Heads
Need List:
Ping Bodie, Sam Rice
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-28-2015, 08:21 PM
Ribbens Ribbens is offline
David Ribbens
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 415
Default

I was able to inspect this Polar Tobacco "pack" tonight in the Boston area and sorry to say the " red overprint" was not able to be viewed with any degree of certainty as to the exact date. I took a pass on this item. Thanks for all your help with this item it was "a good run" as they say.......

Last edited by Ribbens; 12-28-2015 at 08:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-28-2015, 09:56 PM
canjond's Avatar
canjond canjond is offline
Jon Canfield
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,570
Default

Here's a scan of a PB pack to illustrate the overprint. Despite th 1910 tax stamp, this one is dated 1931.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PB1.jpg (27.2 KB, 407 views)
__________________
For information on baseball-related cigarette and tobacco packs, visit www.baseballandtobacco.com.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-29-2015, 06:28 AM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,196
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribbens View Post
I was able to inspect this Polar Tobacco "pack" tonight in the Boston area and sorry to say the " red overprint" was not able to be viewed with any degree of certainty as to the exact date. I took a pass on this item. Thanks for all your help with this item it was "a good run" as they say.......
And it was a good learning experience on packs and overprints. ...Generally speaking a pack can't be specifically dated without an overprint on the stamp. Sellers seem to always pick the dates of packs without stamps as dates the cards came in them, for some reason.
__________________
Leon Luckey

Last edited by Leon; 01-01-2016 at 08:53 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-29-2015, 10:50 PM
1880nonsports's Avatar
1880nonsports 1880nonsports is offline
Hen.ry Mos.es
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,448
Default interesting

the link to the eBay pack shows a "sample" pack. I suppose if I were giving away samples of my product and it was within the insert time frame - putting a card in the package might not be a bad strategy. While I have never heard of this being the case - I've never actually been able to verify a story of ANY PB card being pulled from a package - although logically the sale pack was their point of origin. Not surprisingly I can no longer remember if there's actually an advertisement in print linking the cards to any particular package as these T brands are a bit too recent for my current focus and I only have room to remember one or two things at a time . Perhaps someone could share such an ad if it exists? If it's out there dollars to doughnuts someone here has a copy!

My original intent before I sidetracked myself was curiosity about the asking price?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-30-2015, 12:00 AM
irishdenny's Avatar
irishdenny irishdenny is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,537
Default New Comer to da Pack Party...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwyer View Post
If everything matches, I would open because it might contain 5 cards!
Rich, Jon & Gentleman...

With the Possibility of Any Pack having 5 Cards in it,
Wouldn't Weighing the Pack be Wise!?

Might You Guyz Know What a Pack
Of Smoke's From 1909, 1910 Weigh wit 1 Card in it?

Wit No Cards...?
Wit 2 or More Cards in it?
__________________
Life's Grand,
Denny Walsh
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-30-2015, 05:41 AM
iwantitiwinit's Avatar
iwantitiwinit iwantitiwinit is offline
rob.ert int.rieri
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 2,445
Default

Moisture content at this stage will cause packs with similar contents to vary in weight, a pack with 1 card might weigh the same as a pack with more cards depending on how tightly the package is sealed and where it was stored.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-30-2015, 07:19 AM
3-2-count's Avatar
3-2-count 3-2-count is offline
T0NY @
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,844
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1880nonsports View Post
the link to the eBay pack shows a "sample" pack. I suppose if I were giving away samples of my product and it was within the insert time frame - putting a card in the package might not be a bad strategy. While I have never heard of this being the case - I've never actually been able to verify a story of ANY PB card being pulled from a package - although logically the sale pack was their point of origin. Not surprisingly I can no longer remember if there's actually an advertisement in print linking the cards to any particular package as these T brands are a bit too recent for my current focus and I only have room to remember one or two things at a time . Perhaps someone could share such an ad if it exists? If it's out there dollars to doughnuts someone here has a copy!

My original intent before I sidetracked myself was curiosity about the asking price?
Henry. The closest I can get to your request of a card era advertisement which showed a PB pack would be this large tin. I purchased this from another board member long ago.

He told me that when he uncovered it originally, T206 cards were actually found inside of it that were tucked in between the top lid and a sifting screen.



Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-30-2015, 07:44 AM
1880nonsports's Avatar
1880nonsports 1880nonsports is offline
Hen.ry Mos.es
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,448
Default that's a very nice BIN

even nicer than the one I got in the mid 1990's from a dedicated TOBACCO "stuff" only auction that Mr. Mint ran containing some guy's pack/tin/advertising accumulation (Dennis Goldstein or something like that?).
What I meant was possibly something like the Hindu or Piedmont newspaper advertisements where the cards are shown along with the pack or a sales announcement. Something like that........

Last edited by 1880nonsports; 12-30-2015 at 08:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-30-2015, 07:54 AM
3-2-count's Avatar
3-2-count 3-2-count is offline
T0NY @
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,844
Default

Not seen any paper advertisements w/ cards as you mention Henry, but the search will continue.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-02-2016, 05:20 PM
Leon's Avatar
Leon Leon is online now
Leon
peasant/forum owner
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: near Dallas
Posts: 34,196
Default

Always enjoy seeing that one. Very majestic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-2-count View Post
Henry. The closest I can get to your request of a card era advertisement which showed a PB pack would be this large tin. I purchased this from another board member long ago.

He told me that when he uncovered it originally, T206 cards were actually found inside of it that were tucked in between the top lid and a sifting screen.



__________________
Leon Luckey
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-02-2016, 05:53 PM
1880nonsports's Avatar
1880nonsports 1880nonsports is offline
Hen.ry Mos.es
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,448
Default there's a beauty on the bay

that's been relisted couple times. Very nice condition and not that much overpriced considering. Few Polar bins if any in better shape. Likely when I move in a few months I'll be selling mine or my indian bin. Really can only justify keeping one and the graphics are better on my sure shot bin. What a dilemma.

No affiliation with seller or item.

Last edited by 1880nonsports; 01-02-2016 at 05:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-04-2016, 02:56 PM
T205 GB's Avatar
T205 GB T205 GB is offline
@ndrew woo.dfin
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,526
Default

Anyone know anything about a sample pack?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/POLAR-BEAR-T...kAAOSwd0BVxOIh
__________________
Andrew

Member since 2009
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-04-2016, 10:11 PM
canjond's Avatar
canjond canjond is offline
Jon Canfield
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,570
Default

I think it's extremely unlikely a card would be packaged with the sample pack. It's a neat piece for sure, but there is no evidence to indicate distribution was made with sample packs.
__________________
For information on baseball-related cigarette and tobacco packs, visit www.baseballandtobacco.com.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-04-2016, 10:18 PM
canjond's Avatar
canjond canjond is offline
Jon Canfield
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,570
Default

Here is one other amazing Polar Bear piece that unfortunately was likely stolen. I purchased this in December off of eBay. The Polar Bear crate had to be shipped via UPS in its own custom-made plywood crate that was approximately 3.5 feet long, by 2.5 feet high, and weighed 75 pounds. It left Ohio (where the seller was located) and made it to a sorting facility in Mount Olive, New Jersey before it disappeared (it was logged into the UPS tracking system as arriving, but it was never logged out of the system). After 3 weeks of frustrating calls with UPS, UPS told me it was lost forever and they were going to stop searching for it. I can't see how a package that large is lost, so I still believe it may have been stolen. If anyone ever happens to see this, please let me know!


__________________
For information on baseball-related cigarette and tobacco packs, visit www.baseballandtobacco.com.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-05-2016, 02:23 AM
the 'stache's Avatar
the 'stache the 'stache is offline
Bill Gregory
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
Posts: 3,915
Default

Oh my God, Tony, that advertisement tin is drool-worthy!

I'm really enjoying this discussion, guys.
__________________
Building these sets: T206, 1953 Bowman Color, 1975 Topps.

Great transactions with: piedmont150, Cardboard Junkie, z28jd, t206blogcom, tinkertoeverstochance, trobba, Texxxx, marcdelpercio, t206hound, zachs, tolstoi, IronHorse 2130, AndyG09, BBT206, jtschantz, lug-nut, leaflover, Abravefan11, mpemulis, btcarfagno, BlueSky, and Frankbmd.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-05-2016, 06:35 AM
T205 GB's Avatar
T205 GB T205 GB is offline
@ndrew woo.dfin
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: MN
Posts: 1,526
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by canjond View Post
I think it's extremely unlikely a card would be packaged with the sample pack. It's a neat piece for sure, but there is no evidence to indicate distribution was made with sample packs.
Here is the answer I got from the seller about any overprints.

does the pack have a red overprint date on it? If so what is it?

I will double-check. But I do not believe it does. I also must note, this is a pre-Lorillard Polar Bear pack! When a PB pack even does become available out there, they are 99% always post-ATC deregulation Lorillard packs.
__________________
Andrew

Member since 2009
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-05-2016, 07:41 AM
3-2-count's Avatar
3-2-count 3-2-count is offline
T0NY @
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,844
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the 'stache View Post
Oh my God, Tony, that advertisement tin is drool-worthy!

I'm really enjoying this discussion, guys.
Thanks Bill. There are actually two different PB tins that can be found. One top lid reads, (Polar Bear Scrap Tobacco) while the other reads (Polar Bear Tobacco). I'm grateful to have found them both.



One could have played poker back in the day with these as well.

Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-07-2016, 08:04 PM
Ribbens Ribbens is offline
David Ribbens
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 415
Default

More information from the seller 419zanzibar69 on his 1909 Polar Bear Tobacco Pouch, interesting exchange related to Polar "pack"

POLAR BEAR Tobacco Packet 1909 UNOPENED 1oz SAMPLE POUCH T206 T205 baseball pack #361460879103 advertised on Ebay.
From:419zanzibar69

.....quote....But one thing I must point out about this pack is it's pre-Lorillard and pre-ATC deregulation of 1911.
I am sorry for not going into greater detail. In 1911, the ATC (American Tobacco Co) was broken up. Shares of the ATC were divided between several brands. Lorillard was one of those brands. So was Philip Morris, Liggett & Myers and RJ Reynolds.

And of course, stamps and legalities could possibly give a potential estimate. I always sold them for the correct T206-T205 era, and nothing more. I hope some of that makes sense. I love this hobby.

Red stamp or not, there is only one true way to find out for sure. Right? I could never, nor anyone else no matter how big of an expert they claim to be, can say for sure what is inside beside 105+ year old tobacco or cigarettes. Unfortunately, as a cigarette and tobacco expert, there is no way for sure to tell. Here are some indications, like whether a pack found from the same carton or case contained premiums. And good chances are anyone who guarantees anything inside really has no idea.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Polar Bear Tobacco Pack on eBay canjond Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 1 02-03-2015 06:43 AM
Polar Bear Tobacco display box baseball tourist Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used 8 03-04-2013 08:19 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:38 AM.


ebay GSB