SGC & PSA Question

[skelly]

While it seems to be true that cards graded by PSA might be stronger sellers than the same card in an SGC holder with the same grade, I just don't understand this. The reason being is that SGC seems to be as tough, if not tougher than PSA on grading. Wouldn't it be easy enough to buy a SGC graded card and then just send it in to PSA for the crossover if you simply want the card in a PSA case? Anyway, I was just curious what people's thoughts were on this.

[kmac32]

Could care less about PSA graded cards and the few I have bought were crossed over to SGC. Grades have always been comparable. I prefer SGC as the cards look so much nicer than cards in PSA holders. Just my opinion.

[zljones]

It seems like it is best the use PSA for post war card, and SGC for prewar from what I have heard and noticed. Seems like SGC is more accurate and the prewar SGC values are higher for prewar, while the PSA post war cards seems to sell for more and is in wider use for postwar.

My main source for this is VCP. Does this statement seem correct?

[kmac32]

Very accurate in my opinion.

[AndyG09]

PSA has a stronger registry, which sometimes helps drive up the prices when two or three registry collectors bid up a card. I don't do anything post war, but know PSA has most of the power there where the registries are much more popular.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by skelly

While it seems to be true that cards graded by PSA might be stronger sellers than the same card in an SGC holder with the same grade, I just don't understand this. The reason being is that SGC seems to be as tough, if not tougher than PSA on grading. Wouldn't it be easy enough to buy a SGC graded card and then just send it in to PSA for the crossover if you simply want the card in a PSA case? Anyway, I was just curious what people's thoughts were on this.

Well, part of the reason is that you still need to send your SGC card to PSA, and there are costs associated with that. Say you send 10 cards to PSA, and these aren't under a Collector's Card Special. The minimum fee per card is $10 (assuming under $100 declared value using bulk services). You need to ship your cards over to PSA, and then you need to pay postage back from PSA. And you need to pay postage back from PSA, where the minimum postage fee for 10 cards is $22.50. Therefore for grading, this can easily add up to $13 per card. If your card isn't worth that much, it's better to just buy in the holder that you want rather than crossing over.

Also, there is no guarantee the cards will cross. A few months ago, I cracked out 8 SGC graded 1933 Goudey's that were at 80/6. I cracked them out so that there wouldn't be any bias for a crossover. These eight cards came back from PSA with five lowered to 5.5, one remained the same at 6, and two got upgraded to 6.5. Therefore, it's better to just buy the card in the holder that you want unless you believe the card is strong for the grade.

[Wichita]

The PSA grading standards are a bit different from the SGC standards. It seems PSA is more critical of corners, registration, and some other details. I tried cracking out some SGC graded cards to cross over to PSA. The few 8 and higher cards I submitted were graded lower by PSA, but ones in the 6 to 7 range pretty much crossed over to equivalent grades.

[jg8422]

Originally Posted by Wichita

The PSA grading standards are a bit different from the SGC standards. It seems PSA is more critical of corners, registration, and some other details. I tried cracking out some SGC graded cards to cross over to PSA. The few 8 and higher cards I submitted were graded lower by PSA, but ones in the 6 to 7 range pretty much crossed over to equivalent grades.

What do you mean by "registration?" I have heard that term a few times and always wonder what it means.

Thanks for your help.

[bunst]

Originally Posted by jg8422

What do you mean by "registration?" I have heard that term a few times and always wonder what it means.

Thanks for your help.

Basically it is focus. Sometimes you'll see a card that appears like you have double vision when looking at it; and that would be a card with poor registration. Or when the colors don't fall in line where they should.

[E93]

Generally I think SGC is a bit tougher especially since tightening their criteria on centering but one could find exceptions from both. All the cards from both sides are graded by humans. That said, PSA is so tough on crossovers it seems like they just reject crossovers most of the time on general principal. I have not gotten than impression from SGC.

In terms of re-sale value today I think a blanket claim of PSA for post-war and SGC for pre-war is a bit simplistic.
JimB

[CMIZ5290]

For what it's worth, i can speak from experience pertaining t206s. I have many graded by psa and sgc. Psa graded ones bring more money, it's just that simple. As far as the argument that sgc are more strict on grading, i don't buy that. I have seen alot of recently sgc graded t206s and can't believe how high the grades were. The credibility of psa is just simply stronger than sgc.

[Fred]

"The credibility of psa is just simply stronger than sgc."

YIKES!!! I'm not sure if I agree with that. Perhaps I'm taking that out of context.

As much as I don't care for PSA, I think that both psa and SGC are about the same when it comes to the actual "grade" assigned to a card.

psa grades more cards therefore they open themselves up to more criticism because there are more potential grading anomalies to be debated.

[CMIZ5290]

Fred- if you are not so sure, tell you what, ask the owners of the major auction houses as to which ones they want in order to bring top money for the consignors.

[ullmandds]

Regardless of which TPG slab the auction houses prefer...PSA has a history of grading T206's...as well as most other vintage more leniently/erroneously than SGC...this is a fact.

Yes...both companies have made mistakes...BUT...an SGC card is more likely to cross to PSA(cracked out of course prior to sending) or even receive a bump...than vice versa.

I'd prefer an SGC prewar over PSA practically 100% of the time.

I agree with the registry angle...PSA owns this market...and fools and their money...well...you know!

[Fred]

Kevin,

I wouldn't disagree with you about the preferences of auction houses. I still don't agree with the "credibility" part. I think Pete said it best in his post about "fools and their money"...

Whenever people bring up T206 grading and PSA I have the ultimate answers:

• Gretzky Wagner (graded by psa)
• Hall collection of T206s (graded by psa)

[glchen]

Regarding resale value, this is what they say on the PSA boards on why PSA is superior. On ebay, in the search criteria, enter both SGC and PSA to see which listings use both TPG's as keywords to get more hits. On the results screen, you will see the vast majority are SGC cards looking to capitalize on the PSA keyword rather than PSA cards looking to add collectors of SGC cards.

[rainier2004]

I prefer SGC far more than PSA...Sgc slabs break much easier and generally break "clean" vs PSA slabs which splinter more, require more force and leave bits of the slab in my carpet for the dog to find and chew. In the end, they both break and give you that "fix" that was needed. Merry Christmas!

[pcoz]

I have mostly caramels in my collection, and without question, I prefer SGC. SGC holders present the card better, while the newer PSA holders have my card floating around and that drives me nuts. SGC is more accurate and tougher on the caramels as well. You'll find a good bit of paper loss on PSA 2's that SGC will make 1's upon arrival. PSA cards may trade higher at times b/c of their registry, but I'll take SGC cards over PSA cards any day for pre-war. Just my preference.

[t206hound]

I only collect T206 and I started out as a PSA guy, not really knowing that SGC existed. In the last 18 months I've switched to SGC for three reasons:
- Quick turnaround, primarily due to USPS registered mail. With SGC in NJ (and me in MD), it's much faster than the cross-country trip to CA.
- The appearance of the card in the slab
- A general preference of SGC by many other T206 collectors who favor SGC

That said, I have seen many more "bargains" in SGC holders than PSA holders. Yesterday I looked at the ten cheapest (auction, including shipping) eBay cards sold in PSA3 and SGC40; PSA averaged around $30, with SGC under $29. I also did a search and found instances where the PSA version sold more than the SGC (again at these same grades), and others where SGC was higher. Obviously these are small samples, but I haven't seen definitive proof that the same card would sell higher in one slab than the other (at least at the grade level I collect).

Happy Collecting to all, regardless of your slab or lack thereof!

[CMIZ5290]

Erick- you must keep in mind that with cheaper cards there will not be alot of difference. However, when you are talking about grades of 6 and higher, psa is significantly higher in price.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Erick- you must keep in mind that with cheaper cards there will not be alot of difference. However, when you are talking about grades of 6 and higher, psa is significantly higher in price.

The higher prices in higher grades in PSA holders are mainly due to registry collectors, imo. They are what they are though. PSA vs SGC vs BVG......choices are good for collectors and the hobby in general. Overall all three companies do a good job. I have my preferences just as everyone else has theirs. best regards and happy holidays...

[bobbyw8469]

Here is a card I consigned with PWCC last month. It had a final sell price of just under $500 (SMR value=$1,100).



Same card as a PSA 9 sold last year for $1,400. That is the main reason I prefer PSA over SGC. I don't know of ANY card collector who likes to leave that much money on the table.

[Tom S.]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Here is a card I consigned with PWCC last month. It had a final sell price of just under $500 (SMR value=$1,100).



Same card as a PSA 9 sold last year for $1,400. That is the main reason I prefer PSA over SGC. I don't know of ANY card collector who likes to leave that much money on the table.

Seems to me that the person who bought the SGC 96 and saved $900 over the PSA 9 example made a good choice. I don't know of ANY card collector who wouldn't like that much extra money in his pocket.

[CMIZ5290]

Some people just don't get it.......

[Texxxx]

I do. I want to buy the ones with the highest value.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Tom S.

Seems to me that the person who bought the SGC 96 and saved $900 over the PSA 9 example made a good choice. I don't know of ANY card collector who wouldn't like that much extra money in his pocket.

Couldn't a PSA Registry collector just mail the SGC card to PSA and probably have it end up in a PSA 9 holder?

[Jay Wolt]

Why is it that the PSA registry collector is portrayed as insane and pays multiples of a cards value.
But an SGC registry collector is portrayed as level headed and doesn't pay above market levels?

My thoughts are from multiple threads and not just this one.
And for what its worth I have 6 or 7 sets on the PSA registry & about the same on the SGC registry.
I like both companies and utilize them both, and i try to obtain everything on the cheap

[bobbyw8469]

I do. I want to buy the ones with the highest value.

Then you need to stay away from SGC, because apparently they don't hold their value.

Couldn't a PSA Registry collector just mail the SGC card to PSA and probably have it end up in a PSA 9 holder?

No. Most collectors believe that there is a bias in crossing over cards from competing holders.

[Fred]

Just out of curiosity, what would a PSA 8 or 8.5 of the card sell for?

[bobbyw8469]

'8's typically bring around $300 and some change, and the lone 8.5 sold for around $500 2 years ago.

[Fred]

Robert,

Thanks for the info.

I guess the registry thing may hold true here. If someone bought the card to cross over for a PSA registry set, then they could take it in the shorts if PSA didn't cross it straight over to a '9' holder. If PSA gave it an '8.5' or '8' then the purchaser/submitter of the card would lose quite a bit of money. It looks really nice, pack fresh even. The underlying theme here being a fool and their money when chasing a superior numerical grade for a registry set...