Heritage Pick-Ups - Round 1

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Posted By: Phil Garry

Did anyone here win anything last night during the first day of Heritage's internet only portion of their auction?

I thought that the 1908 Joe Jackson Cabinet Team Photo was very interesting but I think the $22K+ price tag going into the final day of bidding was a little too crazy for me. I was an active bidder on only one lot, the 1875 Hartford CDV w/Candy Cummings and went very hard after it. With the economy in such "dire straits", I thought that the $4,500 price going into extended bidding time was pretty safe. Two hours later, I had to make a decision on whether to go up to almost $14K w/juice and just did not think it was worth it any more at that level. I could not believe in this economy that an SGC 1.5 would sell for way over what that card has done previously in past auctions, mainly in higher grade. Just about everything I am selling/consigning these days has been finishing at disappointing price levels (always seems to be blamed on the soft economy) and I can't believe that when I want something that badly, the price goes crazy as it did last night.

I apologize for the venting but I find it extremely frustrating, that's all. I know it's just a piece of cardboard in the end but somehow that doesn't justify it for me right now.

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Posted By: barrysloate

It's likely that the pieces you are going after are rarer and more desirable than the ones you are selling. Also, if you are an aggressive bidder then you are affecting the closing price of the pieces you go after; but on the ones you are selling you are not participating.

A single extra bidder can have a huge effect on a price realized.

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Posted By: Jay

Phil--This one is graded higher but only because of the condition of the back. The one in Heritage had a fantastic, and maybe unique, photo variation.

http://www.sgccard.com/pricesrealized/index.php?level=picture&id=812

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Posted By: chiprop

A Garter under $5k 2 years ago may not have been possible. The Cracker Jackson in a 6+ i believe sold for under $15k. That was a $20k+ card not long ago. I think the economy and the overall availablity of more cards/auctions today coupled with the fact that a few guys left the hobby probably had a hand in the results. There will always be a big sale in every auction and people will be scratching their head like the Holmes Jackson last year in REA, but I thought prices were overall fair and seemed a tad low in general.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jay- what was the photo variation, or if you could, please provide a link. I just went onto their site and couldn't find it.

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Posted By: Dave F

0 for 2.

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Posted By: Phil Garry

Barry:

I think you hit the nail right on the head. If I was not involved in the Hartford CDV bidding, I believe it would have sold for $6K + juice, to the eventual winner, a relative bargain.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Phil- as someone who has run many auctions I got to see how lots got bid up, and it's just as much or more about the people bidding as it is about the item itself. I always knew when certain bidders got in their qualifiers that there would be fireworks on the last night. How people bid in an auction is really quite fascinating.

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Posted By: Phil Garry

Barry:

That's interesting insight looking at it from the auctioneer's viewpoint. During your auctions, you have access to a lot more information than we do as bidders.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Well I had to. When I did phone auctions I spoke with every bidder. And even in an internet auction, the software provides bidders' names. Part of monitoring an auction is knowing what's going on. Of course bidders want the auction house to be completely in the dark but it doesn't work that way.

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Posted By: Jay

Barry--The backdrop in the photo. The Heritage one looks like it has the actual backdrop and the one I attached a link to had the backdrop removed.

http://sports.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=714&Lot_No=81004

The above is the Heritage link

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

Always a sucker for larger groups of tough cards. I picked up the group of 12 orange borders last night for what I thought was a pretty nice price given that there's a nice Matty in the lot, a Cobb, Speaker, Crawford in a 20 holder and several of those tough commons. Don't know much about these but I'll have fun learning and working with the group when they show up.

I also was bidding heavily on the E-unc Wagner. Would have loved that one too but I dropped out after winning the orange borders.

http://sports.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=714&Lot_No=81080

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Posted By: Jeremy

I was 1 for 2, but was able to snag a small 18 card lot of tough T213 Coupon's. Getting a rare Type 3 Gabby Street/Nashville card in the mix...(Completed my Nashville Coupon subset!)

BTW - Anyone out there win the other T213-2 Coupon Lot #81121 (17 cards)? Please email me if you want to sell off any of the cards with in this lot -

Thanks,

jeremyj70@comcast.net

~ Jeremy ~

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Posted By: leon

All 4 items I was looking at did very well....and I struck out. I guess I need deeper pockets to play this game. I think some prices were very high and some not as high....Just about like every auction right now. It seems my D303 set is going to be expensive to try to complete. I also liked the E-Unc Wagner card and if I didn't have Moose McCormick, from probably the same test set, then I would have gone higher on it. One more lottery ticket please.....BTW, can anyone post a link to see the realized prices last night? I can only see the things I bid on...regards

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Posted By: Rob D.

Just be glad you don't collect medals awarded to dogs for their service in World War II.

Apparently the economy in England is just fine, thank you.

http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/04/24/adog.html?sid=101

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Posted By: Joe Drelich

This should work

http://sports.ha.com/common/auction/pricesrealized.php?cboSaleNo=714&stage=1

if not try post auctions buys section the link is in there.

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Posted By: leon

thanks so much...that link works. I was wading around for 20 minutes trying to do that

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jay- I figured that's what you meant by a variation.

The Hartford CdV has long been known with two backgrounds, the ornate one and the plain. I've never done a survey but they seem to appear with about equal frequency.

The one Heritage sold is of course the first issue, with the second having the background airbrushed out. If you look at the first version the players in the back row are blurry. My theory is the photographer tried to improve the clarity, and had to get rid of the background to accomplish this.

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Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus

Jay,

Over the past number of years I can think of about 6 or 7 Hartford CDVs I have seen (a couple of which I've owned). As I best remember, they were roughly split 50-50 in regard to having or not having the background.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Corey- we posted the same message simultaneously. Years of friendship have made us one like mind.

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Posted By: leon

I think the SGC80 Cummings CDV is the one I used to own...Very cool card and I knew there were 2 varieties after I studied up on them.

Actually, in just looking at the prices realized most of them were pretty darn strong.....I guess the economy hasn't affected as card addicts as other folks...Some prices looked really high....An E91 Matty in a 4 holder for $1700'ish...wow...

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Posted By: Alan

Can someone email me the prices realized in a simple grid - just lot # and price realized ? Thanks.

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Posted By: Ken Wirt

Corey,

I think this Heritage Candy Cummings card is, in fact one that you owned. I remember you posting it a couple of years ago, and I downloaded the image. Pretty sure this was the same one.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

On rare stuff, it was a strong sale. On run of the mill stuff, it was spotty. I threw down several lowball bids on boxing cards that held up and won, which is nice except that I also chased and won one high end card for 2x what I wanted to spend. Oh well, that's what credit cards are for...

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus

Ken,

I did at one time own a gorgeous one with the background. However, I don't recall it having any back damage. Did I at the time post an image of the verso?

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Posted By: Aaron Conyers

I thought the N167 Carney went relatively cheap considering the condition. I planned on bidding on the N332 Peter Jackson, but forgot to bid last night.

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Posted By: Jay

Thanks Corey and Barry! BTW, Barry, I had the same thought as you with respect to the background being removed. I also would have guessed that 5-10 of these are known, more common that most Peck and Snyders, except for the Cincinnati, which I would guess has about 20-25 known copies.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jay- yes, it would have been easy for the photographer to have removed the background, but I doubt there was any known technology that would have allowed him to add it.

And in the days when all these team CdV's were a lot more easy to come by, the Hartford was considered among the more common. As far as a population estimate, I would say at least 8-10 are known.

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Posted By: Ken Wirt

Hey Corey,

I don't think I ever saw the image of the reverse. Perhaps I am mistaken that this card was one that you posted. I'm sure it's the same card that SOMEONE once posted here, simply because I did download it, and it is the same front. Maybe it was someone else's.

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Posted By: Leon

Preece had a nice 1875 CDV with the back drop at one time...it might have been his on the board

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Posted By: Donavon Arabie

There was only one card I was targeting in this auction & I believe I got it at a fair price.

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Posted By: marty q

could not snag this one....somebody really wanted it!!

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Posted By: boxingcardman

That was one of the better deals on the boxing side of the auction. Once you get within a reasonable % of value, making that next move is painful if all you're doing is going after a duplicate card given the 19.5% vig. I looked at Jackson long and hard but I hated the condition. Also looked at the Yankee Sullivan but it had something on the front right cross his upper chest and would have driven me crazy for the money.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: S Gross

Boxing, $%*&% thought was ending tonight...............


someone STOLE the E77's.

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Posted By: Aaron Conyers

The Carney would have been a nice upgrade for me. But not really looking to upgrade. I liked the image on the Peter Jackson but agree about the condition. I think the price was reasonable condsidering the condition. I would have went a little higher if I had remembered to bid. I think the SF Hess Peter Jackson is the key card in that set.

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Posted By: Kevin Andrews

Last night was the first time I've won something from Heritage (a group of 10 E121-80's). Do they send an invoices at the end of the auction or should I be contacting them?

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Posted By: chris mc

My first win with an auction house. I got real lucky and picked up the 2 Rogers Peet boxers.

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Posted By: Vincent

. . . zilch, nada, shut out.

Perhaps next time.

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Posted By: Brian Goldner