1888 Boston cabinet on ebay

Archive · #1 03-22-2009, 10:58 AM

Posted By: Jeff Prizner

Looks like the seller ended this one early on ebay, any estimates on value? Anyone here pick it up?

[linked image]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&it em=330315325345

Archive · #2 03-22-2009, 11:00 AM

Posted By: Matt

I had a snipe ready. Congrats to whomever picked it up.

My Trade/Sale Page

Archive · #3 03-22-2009, 11:03 AM

Posted By: barrysloate

I was in contact with the seller and he plans to relist it (unless something has changed since we corresponded).

Archive · #4 03-22-2009, 11:08 AM

Posted By: Jeff Prizner

oh cool, thanks for the info. Barry. Sorry for outing a future auction!

Archive · #5 03-22-2009, 11:16 AM

Posted By: barrysloate

Your telepathic powers ruined another good auction.

Archive · #6 03-22-2009, 06:44 PM

Posted By: Jeff Prizner

re-listed at $5800 opening bid, I did not foresee that.

Archive · #7 03-22-2009, 06:50 PM

Posted By: Frank

Matt,
Still have that snipe ready

Archive · #8 03-22-2009, 06:58 PM

Posted By: JohnnyH

With a missing corner will that kill any bids opening at that amount ?

Archive · #9 03-22-2009, 07:09 PM

Posted By: Anonymous

I was under the impression real ones didn't have blank backs.....is that not correct?

Archive · #10 03-22-2009, 07:14 PM

Posted By: barrysloate

Almost all have blank backs, although Kansas City and Washington are known with advertising backs.

Archive · #11 03-22-2009, 09:16 PM

Posted By: Jay

The cabinet looks genuine but I agree with the others who speculated that the lot will not open. I think an appropriate starting bid would have been half that amount or less. If the cabinet were sound that opening bid would have been fair. However, with a large chunk of the mount missing and, along with it some of the names, and some damage to the photo at the top, it seems very optimistic.

Archive · #12 03-23-2009, 05:44 AM

Posted By: Mark T

Lives in the same town as me...i emailed a few times and he has indicated to me that...

"a few experts in the field have told me that this cabinet would be worth $15,000 if it were intact and in EX cond. As the torn corner does lower the value i still believe it may be worth $6,000. I will be listing it as a BIN."

He told me he has had it in his possession for a long time.

He may get or may not, i think he will since it is a rare cabinet.

Archive · #13 03-23-2009, 06:09 AM

Posted By: barrysloate

I told him that. The Chicago Joseph Hall just went for close to 20K at Hunt's, and the Boston is arguably the second most valuable one (some might say Washington because it is so rare). But I also told him the missing piece is a huge problem. Let's see what happens.

Archive · #14 03-23-2009, 06:15 AM

Posted By: Matt

If the seller needs to get $5800, he stands a much better chance of doing so with the new format where he only needs to find one person that thinks it's worth that much then with the old auction, where he'd need to find two. That said, I'll be surprised if he can even find the one.

My Trade/Sale Page

Archive · #15 03-23-2009, 06:25 AM

Posted By: Jay

The Chicago Jos Hall went for over $20K because it is only the second copy known and the best of the two. It also has the irony of Anson with his hand on the black mascot Clarence Duval. Washington is also very rare. Boston compares to Louisville which is desireable but not the ultimate in Jos Halls. The doctored faces/bodies also, in my opinion, makes it somewhat less desireable. I would guess that if it were sound it would be worth $10K.

Archive · #16 03-23-2009, 06:28 AM

Posted By: Tom Boblitt

to $2500, maybe upwards of $3000 but having a big chunk missing doesn't help the cause. $5800 is unlikely to happen.......

Archive · #17 03-23-2009, 06:59 AM

Posted By: leon

I think he is more likely to find "a" buyer at, or near, that price than two buyers. The chunk out of it kills the value and I don't think it will get the opening. I am with Tom in the 2k-3k range, though I wouldn't pay that much...regards

Archive · #18 03-23-2009, 08:07 AM

Posted By: barrysloate

I think a little more...maybe 4K, but I am not a buyer either.

Archive · #19 03-23-2009, 08:14 AM

Posted By: Steve

I'm confused but since the starting price
is 5,800 all he needs is one guy.

Or was the 2 bidder theory above written when his auction
was at a 9.99 start?

IMO being torn like that I'd pay a grand at most.

And that is if I even wanted it (which I do not)

Steve

Archive · #20 03-23-2009, 08:16 AM

Posted By: Alan

The old saying (below)from early days of the hobby is still valid. It's just now there are so many more ways to sell an item. But, the bottom line is...

YOU JUST GOTTA FIND A BUYER [linked image]

Archive · #21 03-23-2009, 09:15 AM

Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

Lots of lookers and no buyers but it only takes one.

So what would the value be if there was no DIVOT.. ?

marty

Archive · #22 03-23-2009, 10:05 AM

Posted By: ramram

Just being a Joseph Hall image makes this cabinet very valuable but personally I think it is less appealing since it is the Boston player's heads superimposed on the Brooklyn team image.

Rob M.

[linked image]

Archive · #23 03-23-2009, 10:14 AM

Posted By: Jeff Prizner

Great visual! Thanks Rob.

Archive · #24 03-23-2009, 10:38 AM

Posted By: dstudeba

Jay - I did not know about the Anson/mascot pose, that is fascinating. Thank you very much for noting that.

Rob - Thanks for the visual, I agree with your assessment.

Archive · #25 03-23-2009, 11:07 AM

Posted By: davidcycleback

It would grade Poor to Auth but has nice eye appeal due to the clean team image. Many grade poor cabinets and cards are missing the nice eye appeal part.

Archive · #26 03-23-2009, 11:09 AM

Posted By: barrysloate

Rob- I always knew the Boston cabinet had the heads superimposed, but never made the connection with Brooklyn. I learn something new every day.

Archive · #27 03-23-2009, 11:21 AM

Posted By: John

This is a Hall image too correct?

I would love to see all of these does anyone have images?

[linked image]

Archive · #28 03-23-2009, 11:26 AM

Posted By: Jay

All Jos Hall images are featured in the book "The Photographic Baseball Cards of Goodwin & Company 1886-1890". This is a shameless plug since Richard Masson still has a few copies remaining for sale.

Archive · #29 03-23-2009, 11:28 AM

Posted By: davidcycleback

It has Hall's credit in the lower left corner.

Archive · #30 03-23-2009, 11:29 AM

Posted By: John

David, I see that just wondering if it was as I have not seen the orginal etc...

Archive · #31 03-23-2009, 11:35 AM

Posted By: davidcycleback

His credit and copyright means the photo was by Hall. It's uncommon for a litho baseball ad item to give credit to the photographer. There's no photographer credit on a T3, N173 or tobacco album. Hall probably gave the tobacco company's lithographer a cabinet card.

Archive · #32 03-23-2009, 11:55 AM

Posted By: barrysloate

There are at least three known images of the New York Giants taken by Joseph Hall:

1) Studio pose in unifirm
2) Outdoor pose in uniform (an especially well composed photo).
3) Studio pose in tuxedo. This is found only in large format, I believe.

John- the Sporting Times Cigar card you have corresponds to the image on page 347 of the OJ book, although you will see the artist changed the image on the trade card slightly.

Archive · #33 03-23-2009, 02:50 PM

Posted By: John

Dug thru about 2 hard drives worth of saved images to find these..though I would post them.

[linked image]

Barry where can I find or buy the OJ book etc?

Archive · #34 03-23-2009, 02:52 PM

Posted By: barrysloate

John- that's the book that Jay Miller, Richard Masson, and Joe Gonsowski wrote. Jay cited it on this thread. Send him an email- they still have copies left. And it is well worth it.

Archive · #35 03-23-2009, 02:56 PM

Posted By: John

Thanks Barry will do!

Archive · #36 03-23-2009, 03:39 PM

Posted By: Ken Wirt

Wonka,

I also have that particular Cigar card. If I'm not mistaken, this is one of about 25 that were discovered not too long ago - all with pretty severe damage. (I think a board member has several of them). Speculation was that they may have been intended as cigar box labels. This is the only card of Mickey Welch that I possess for my HOF set - hence my ID label. Obviously, artwork based upon the Hall cabinet photos, although I have never seen any other team depicted on one of these.

[linked image]

Archive · #37 03-23-2009, 03:44 PM

Posted By: barrysloate

Ken- I've had several of the Sporting Times Cigar cards over the years and what I remember is that the reverse of each one was used as an accounting ledger. It would be interesting to know why that was so.

Archive · #38 03-23-2009, 03:48 PM

Posted By: Ken Wirt

You're right Barry - mine does indeed have some accounting doodles on the reverse. But they are quite primitive. Someone apparently used these damaged cards/labels as scratch paper many years ago. Really gives the item a lot of character, imo.

Archive · #39 03-23-2009, 03:48 PM

Posted By: John

Mine has a full ledger and even calls out cigars and costs...

Archive · #40 03-23-2009, 03:52 PM

Posted By: Ken Wirt

Now that I look at mine, I guess it is a fairly complete ledger also. I guess I'm just used to seeing things like that all typed up neatly in Excel spreadsheets!

Archive · #41 03-23-2009, 07:00 PM

Posted By: Tony Andrea

Here is the Joseph Hall large studio portrait of the 1889 NY Giants in tuxedo's Barry speaks of. It's roughly 16" x 20" but was slightly larger at one time being cut down a bit long long ago to fit the era frame that it was found in. Includes Hof's - Roger Connor, Tim Keefe, Mickey Welch, Buck Ewing, & Jim O'Rourke.

[linked image]

Archive · #42 03-26-2009, 05:20 AM

Posted By: Mark T

Its gone....must have sold off Ebay, anyone here grab it?

Archive · #43 03-26-2009, 06:01 AM

Posted By: Frank

Nothing showing on completed listings.

Archive · #44 03-26-2009, 06:41 AM

Posted By: Matt

The listing was removed by eBay - not the seller.

My Trade/Sale Page

Archive · #45 03-26-2009, 06:44 AM

Posted By: Mark T

The dreaded Ebay police at work again...

"EBay removed it because I said I would accept a money order for payment. Apparently some policies have changed that I wasn't aware of, its now paypal and paypal only. I will be relisting it again."

Archive · #46 03-26-2009, 08:10 AM

Posted By: Jeff Prizner

This time it will be $9800.

Archive · #47 04-24-2009, 01:27 PM

Posted By: Jay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&it em=330315325345

Interesting to note that there are some differences between this Boston cabinet and the one pictured on P329 in the Old Judge book (I will post a scan tonight). First, the photo is cropped differently and the image is slightly smaller on this one. Second, the names on the mount are presented slightly differently. The cabinet illustrated in the book has three names in the first column and four in the second on the mount. This cabinet has four/three. No big deal, just interesting to note the differences.